Oh Max, maybe you should stop drinking and writing...
Here's video footage of Sarah Simpleton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwkb9_zB2Pg
VP Debate "Moderator" has conflict of interest
- Thread starter fossten
- Start date
Here's video footage of Sarah Simpleton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwkb9_zB2Pg
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Here's your answer. Ifill left this rather important tidbit off her resume.Heck, Reagan got Rather pulled off one of his debates...
The campaigns can't veto - but they can contest.
Why didn't the McCain campaign do their homework? (Ohhh, deep dark secrets there - her book has been on pre-order status on Amazon and Random House since July)
Why did they let this slide? They seem to do this a lot. I am beginning to wonder if it is on purpose - hoist the red flag, cast a pall over the whole proceedings, and then, claim 'bias' if our girl doesn't do well (I am sort of with Dude on this one)... Maybe they are far more crafty then I imagine they are... hummmm
Shag, I was just using 'Hume' as someone the Obama campaign would protest, not as a direct comparison using monetary gain.
Oh, let's just get more old white guys to moderate, how about David Freddoso? (this is funny - I hadn't read Foss's post above before posting mine...great minds foss....)
Oh, and also, from Essence Magazine:
Awww...isn't that sweet.
Hey! Sad little man!
You might wanna consider this...
This should be a real interesting article for you to read, whenever you decide to grace us with your "superior intellect" again.
An unusual video showing Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee, being blessed by a Kenyan bishop against witchcraft has rattled liberal bloggers and fueled scorn among her detractors, but religious experts say the matter has been blown out of proportion by ignorance and intolerance.
The 2004 video, which began airing on the Internet last week, shows Kenyan Bishop Thomas Muthee calling Palin to the front of a church to lay hands on her and pray to keep her safe from “every form of witchcraft.”
“Make her way, my God. Bring finances her way even for the campaign in the name of Jesus...Use her to turn this nation the other way around,” Muthee said while placing his hands upon Palin. “Talk to God about this woman. We declare, save her from Satan.”
The “witchcraft” line in particular caught the attention of liberal pundits and bloggers. Keith Olbermann, host of MSNBC’s “Countdown,” called the video “terrifying” and said it made the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the much-criticized ex-pastor of Barack Obama, look “pretty mainstream” in comparison.
But religious experts said there was nothing untoward in the video, which they said shows a fairly routine religious ceremony. Misunderstanding over it has grown because of the McCain campaign’s refusal to comment on the video, suggesting that the campaign was on uncomfortable footing with Palin’s religion, the experts said.
Jacob K. Olupana, a religion professor at Harvard, said the campaign appears to have been caught flat- footed when trying to answer questions on Palin’s faith. “I’m not sure they understand it,” he said.
“What you saw was something very basic that happens in a Pentecostal church,” said Anthea Butler, a religion professor at the University of Rochester. “You would see this in any Pentecostal church on any given Sunday.”
But while the practice may not have been unusual for Palin’s faith, the McCain campaign did not push back very hard against media’s coverage of the video, which has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times on YouTube and got prime placement on top liberal blogs, including The Huffington Post, Daily Kos and Talking Points Memo. Instead, the campaign has highlighted Palin’s “nondenominational evangelical” beliefs, while rarely mentioning her many years in a Pentecostal church.
“Why can’t the campaign articulate what she is about?” Butler asked. “I don’t think they knew,” she said, or else they were “trying to mask” Palin’s true views.
The McCain campaign has not addressed Muthee or his blessing of Palin and declined to comment on the video for this story.
When asked about the Alaska governor’s religious background, the McCain campaign said in an e-mail that Palin was baptized in a Catholic church as an infant, was a member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes in High School, and has been a member of the Wasilla Bible Church — “a nondenominational, evangelical church” — for the last seven years.
The Alaska governor’s religion gets no mention in her biography on the campaign’s website; campaign officials say that she does not consider herself to be a Pentecostal.
As a teenager, Palin joined the Wasilla Assembly of God, a Pentecostal church in Wasilla. She was baptized in the church and, along with her husband and children, attended the church until 2002. Since then, the Palins have attended the Wasilla Bible Church, an Evangelical church.
Butler said that at the Pentecostal baptism, Palin likely would have been expected to speak in tongues. Some members of the Wasilla Assembly of God reportedly do speak in tongues as part of their practice, though officials from Palin’s campaign and the church both say she did not.
In a statement on its website, Pain’s former church notes that she “has maintained a friendship with Wasilla Assembly of God and has attended various conferences and special meetings here.”
It was during one of those appearances in June that Palin called the Iraq war “a task that is from God.”
During that same appearance, Palin credited Bishop Muthee’s prayers for her becoming governor.
“As I was mayor and Pastor Muthee was here and he was praying over me,” Palin said. “He said, 'Lord, make a way and let her do this next step.' And that's exactly what happened.”
Some of Muthee’s beliefs come from his experiences in Kenya, where he and wife, Margaret, founded a church in a violent area on the outskirts of Nairobi in 1988.
According to a 1999 Christian Science Monitor article, Muthee decided that witchcraft, specifically a spirit inhabiting a local woman named “Mama Jane,” was responsible for much of the turmoil in the area. To rid the community of the “demonic influence” of “Mama Jane,” Muthee set up a church in the basement of a grocery store where 200 people prayed in round-the-clock shifts. Under growing pressure from the Bishop, the woman eventually left town.
“Witchcraft is a sad reality in many parts of Africa, resulting in scores of deaths in Kenya over the past two decades,” Catholic League President Bill Donohue said in a statement that chastised the media for its coverage of the video.
“Bishop Muthee’s blessing, then, was simply a reflection of his cultural understanding of evil. While others are not obliged to accept his interpretation, all can be expected to respect it. More than that, Muthee should be hailed for asking God to shield Palin from harmful forces, however they may be manifested,” Donohue’s statement said. “And for this he is mocked and Palin ridiculed?”
“I don’t know why they are making a big thing out of it,” Olupana said of the media reaction to the video. “Witchcraft as part of a belief system is real to the people who live there,” he said, noting that there was “nothing unusual about what happened.”
The religion professor noted that when Obama came under fire for his ties to Wright, several black religious leaders stepped out from behind the pew to explain their faith and put the reverend’s remarks in context.
But with Palin’s tie to Muthee, he said, “no one has stepped up to explain this.”
The 2004 video, which began airing on the Internet last week, shows Kenyan Bishop Thomas Muthee calling Palin to the front of a church to lay hands on her and pray to keep her safe from “every form of witchcraft.”
“Make her way, my God. Bring finances her way even for the campaign in the name of Jesus...Use her to turn this nation the other way around,” Muthee said while placing his hands upon Palin. “Talk to God about this woman. We declare, save her from Satan.”
The “witchcraft” line in particular caught the attention of liberal pundits and bloggers. Keith Olbermann, host of MSNBC’s “Countdown,” called the video “terrifying” and said it made the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the much-criticized ex-pastor of Barack Obama, look “pretty mainstream” in comparison.
But religious experts said there was nothing untoward in the video, which they said shows a fairly routine religious ceremony. Misunderstanding over it has grown because of the McCain campaign’s refusal to comment on the video, suggesting that the campaign was on uncomfortable footing with Palin’s religion, the experts said.
Jacob K. Olupana, a religion professor at Harvard, said the campaign appears to have been caught flat- footed when trying to answer questions on Palin’s faith. “I’m not sure they understand it,” he said.
“What you saw was something very basic that happens in a Pentecostal church,” said Anthea Butler, a religion professor at the University of Rochester. “You would see this in any Pentecostal church on any given Sunday.”
But while the practice may not have been unusual for Palin’s faith, the McCain campaign did not push back very hard against media’s coverage of the video, which has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times on YouTube and got prime placement on top liberal blogs, including The Huffington Post, Daily Kos and Talking Points Memo. Instead, the campaign has highlighted Palin’s “nondenominational evangelical” beliefs, while rarely mentioning her many years in a Pentecostal church.
“Why can’t the campaign articulate what she is about?” Butler asked. “I don’t think they knew,” she said, or else they were “trying to mask” Palin’s true views.
The McCain campaign has not addressed Muthee or his blessing of Palin and declined to comment on the video for this story.
When asked about the Alaska governor’s religious background, the McCain campaign said in an e-mail that Palin was baptized in a Catholic church as an infant, was a member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes in High School, and has been a member of the Wasilla Bible Church — “a nondenominational, evangelical church” — for the last seven years.
The Alaska governor’s religion gets no mention in her biography on the campaign’s website; campaign officials say that she does not consider herself to be a Pentecostal.
As a teenager, Palin joined the Wasilla Assembly of God, a Pentecostal church in Wasilla. She was baptized in the church and, along with her husband and children, attended the church until 2002. Since then, the Palins have attended the Wasilla Bible Church, an Evangelical church.
Butler said that at the Pentecostal baptism, Palin likely would have been expected to speak in tongues. Some members of the Wasilla Assembly of God reportedly do speak in tongues as part of their practice, though officials from Palin’s campaign and the church both say she did not.
In a statement on its website, Pain’s former church notes that she “has maintained a friendship with Wasilla Assembly of God and has attended various conferences and special meetings here.”
It was during one of those appearances in June that Palin called the Iraq war “a task that is from God.”
During that same appearance, Palin credited Bishop Muthee’s prayers for her becoming governor.
“As I was mayor and Pastor Muthee was here and he was praying over me,” Palin said. “He said, 'Lord, make a way and let her do this next step.' And that's exactly what happened.”
Some of Muthee’s beliefs come from his experiences in Kenya, where he and wife, Margaret, founded a church in a violent area on the outskirts of Nairobi in 1988.
According to a 1999 Christian Science Monitor article, Muthee decided that witchcraft, specifically a spirit inhabiting a local woman named “Mama Jane,” was responsible for much of the turmoil in the area. To rid the community of the “demonic influence” of “Mama Jane,” Muthee set up a church in the basement of a grocery store where 200 people prayed in round-the-clock shifts. Under growing pressure from the Bishop, the woman eventually left town.
“Witchcraft is a sad reality in many parts of Africa, resulting in scores of deaths in Kenya over the past two decades,” Catholic League President Bill Donohue said in a statement that chastised the media for its coverage of the video.
“Bishop Muthee’s blessing, then, was simply a reflection of his cultural understanding of evil. While others are not obliged to accept his interpretation, all can be expected to respect it. More than that, Muthee should be hailed for asking God to shield Palin from harmful forces, however they may be manifested,” Donohue’s statement said. “And for this he is mocked and Palin ridiculed?”
“I don’t know why they are making a big thing out of it,” Olupana said of the media reaction to the video. “Witchcraft as part of a belief system is real to the people who live there,” he said, noting that there was “nothing unusual about what happened.”
The religion professor noted that when Obama came under fire for his ties to Wright, several black religious leaders stepped out from behind the pew to explain their faith and put the reverend’s remarks in context.
But with Palin’s tie to Muthee, he said, “no one has stepped up to explain this.”
Well - to Max's posts - Jefferson said it best...
"but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities." Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom
Wow - nice article Foss - the one from Essence, the one printed in July.
How was it that the McCain campaign didn't discover these things, it apparently isn't hard to find these things out. A quick google search...
I don't know what the CPD asks their moderators - or what is expected to be disclosed. If these revelations are against their standards they should have Ifill step down.
"but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities." Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom
Wow - nice article Foss - the one from Essence, the one printed in July.
How was it that the McCain campaign didn't discover these things, it apparently isn't hard to find these things out. A quick google search...
I don't know what the CPD asks their moderators - or what is expected to be disclosed. If these revelations are against their standards they should have Ifill step down.
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fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Still pushing the meme that it's McCain's fault, eh? The fact is that it's Ifill's responsibility to disclose conflicts of interest - ESPECIALLY FINANCIAL CONFLICTS - to her potential employers. She should step down, and if she doesn't it shreds her credibility.
You just don't get it, foxpaws. If McCain had uncovered all this, and pushed to have her removed, the media would have cried "RACIST!"
Folks, this isn't even about bias. It's about financial gain - whether or not she favors Obama, her book stands to sell more copies if he's elected. That means she has a financial stake in him winning the election. It is unethical for her to moderate the debate. If this were a courtroom, this would be a mistrial.
Oh, and Johnny, this is for you - *owned*
Just like Couric and Gibson being biased and out to get her only helped her? No, at least as far as I am concerned, if Palim sinks or swims of her own accord, fine. Let the chips fall where they may. If she given unfair treatment by the MSM, that is another issue entirely.
I don't see any reasons why most republican's wouldn't feel this way...
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
The fair thing to do is to just let Obama ask the questions and for his campaign staff to hurl water balloons at Palin.
Seriously, this entire Presidential election is rigged. If Obama manages to steal the election, he will not be a legitimate President.
Seriously, this entire Presidential election is rigged. If Obama manages to steal the election, he will not be a legitimate President.
Well, I certainly know panel members in the past have had campaign books on the shelf when they were on the panel.
I'll have to look into the moderators.
They all indirectly benefit - great PR, and exposure, but as far as directly benefiting, I'll have to see if there is precedence. And I still can't find anything on disclosure...
I still think McCain's staff didn't do their homework. Sort of like the Supreme Court gun case in the book I am reading - if you don't show up, bad things might happen.
Legitimate president? Rigged? Now you know how we (the Dems) felt in 2000 Foss...
I'll have to look into the moderators.
They all indirectly benefit - great PR, and exposure, but as far as directly benefiting, I'll have to see if there is precedence. And I still can't find anything on disclosure...
I still think McCain's staff didn't do their homework. Sort of like the Supreme Court gun case in the book I am reading - if you don't show up, bad things might happen.
Legitimate president? Rigged? Now you know how we (the Dems) felt in 2000 Foss...
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Very weak argument. Moving the goalposts. No excuse. The burden is on Ifill to disclose. The Columbia Journalism Review has weighed in on this. They admit it's a conflict.
Considering the liberal media that supported Gore, I don't see how you can say that.Legitimate president? Rigged? Now you know how we (the Dems) felt in 2000 Foss...
Why is the burden on Ifill? I haven't seen the disclosure rules that the debate committee has - have you seen them Foss? As I said, I don't know what the CPD asks their moderators - or what is expected to be disclosed. If these revelations are against their standards they should have Ifill step down.
Not 'moving the goal posts' (boy you guys have fun with these)... McCain's campaign should have been watchdogging this - if this had gone the other way and for some unforeseen reason a moderator was chosen that was going to have a book come out titled "Finally: Politics and Veterans in the Age of McCain" you would have been saying - "too bad, didn't do your homework" and rightfully so.
Ohhhh, do I get to use the Columbia Journalism Review for a watchdog source?????? woo hoo!!!!!!!
Not 'moving the goal posts' (boy you guys have fun with these)... McCain's campaign should have been watchdogging this - if this had gone the other way and for some unforeseen reason a moderator was chosen that was going to have a book come out titled "Finally: Politics and Veterans in the Age of McCain" you would have been saying - "too bad, didn't do your homework" and rightfully so.
Ohhhh, do I get to use the Columbia Journalism Review for a watchdog source?????? woo hoo!!!!!!!
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
You must be in sheer denial to make such a statement. If this were a courtroom, and the judge had a financial stake in the outcome of the trial, and he failed to reveal it, this would be a mistrial. If this were an NBA referee who had a financial stake in the outcome of a game - oh, wait! That's happened recently! The guy is going to prison!
So now you're requiring a list of rules from the CPD, or else it isn't a conflict of interest? You're HILARIOUS, as well as flawed for MOVING THE GOALPOSTS yet again...
Well, as far as I know the CPD isn't a court of law... but who knows... I am in denial about soooo many things
But, I do know the CPD has final say - and if they are uncomfortable with this, they should make her step down....
And I do believe that the moon is made of green cheese
I guess we will just have to wait and see.... "More sake please..."
But, I do know the CPD has final say - and if they are uncomfortable with this, they should make her step down....
And I do believe that the moon is made of green cheese
I guess we will just have to wait and see.... "More sake please..."
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Nice job of nonarguing the point.Well, as far as I know the CPD isn't a court of law... but who knows... I am in denial about soooo many things
But, I do know the CPD has final say - and if they are uncomfortable with this, they should make her step down....
And I do believe that the moon is made of green cheese
I guess we will just have to wait and see.... "More sake please..."
TheDude
Dedicated LVC Member
35 mins into it, Ifel isn't being biased, go figure.
I did like that Rollins gave Palin a point for saying "can I call you Joe?", funny that.
I did like that Rollins gave Palin a point for saying "can I call you Joe?", funny that.
Ifill did as she always does.
Her position reflect a world view, but seeing how she asked the same questions to both candidates, it was difficult to just hammer on any one.
I've heard non-partisans say that it seemed preculiar that Biden seemed to get the last word on so many of the questions. I'm inclined to think that it wasn't bias but Palin probably not requesting to speak again.
Otherwise, I think Palin did great.
And I thinks she pulled the MccCain campaign out of the fire for a second time.
Biden did well enough, though any fair fact-checkers are going to have a field day regarding his statements. But it doesn't really matter, he's been around for 35 years, he's been running for the Presidency since I was in elementary school, and he's a known commodity. Palin was the feature tonight.
Her position reflect a world view, but seeing how she asked the same questions to both candidates, it was difficult to just hammer on any one.
I've heard non-partisans say that it seemed preculiar that Biden seemed to get the last word on so many of the questions. I'm inclined to think that it wasn't bias but Palin probably not requesting to speak again.
Otherwise, I think Palin did great.
And I thinks she pulled the MccCain campaign out of the fire for a second time.
Biden did well enough, though any fair fact-checkers are going to have a field day regarding his statements. But it doesn't really matter, he's been around for 35 years, he's been running for the Presidency since I was in elementary school, and he's a known commodity. Palin was the feature tonight.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Am I the only one that noticed the Biden Surgical Tape EyeLift.
The guy's eyes looked creepy all night. My wife said I was picking on him.
The guy's eyes looked creepy all night. My wife said I was picking on him.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
I agree, Palin kicked the living sh## out of Biden. I liked how she set him up by asking if she could call him Joe, and then hit him with the "Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again!"
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Everybody in the MSM is saying that Biden was armed with facts.
I'm just not sure anybody understood them.
Criticizing John McCain’s health care plan, Biden said that McCain would tax health care and
I'm just not sure anybody understood them.
Criticizing John McCain’s health care plan, Biden said that McCain would tax health care and
Eh?
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Two more memorable gaffes by Biden:
1. A surge won't work in Afghanistan, what we need is more troops.
2. 7,000 madrassas have been built along the Pakistani border, what we need is to build schools instead.
1. A surge won't work in Afghanistan, what we need is more troops.
2. 7,000 madrassas have been built along the Pakistani border, what we need is to build schools instead.
JohnnyBz00LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Still dillusional.
Here's an authentic assessment...........
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/live-blogging-t.html
Nearly all of the post-debate polls give the win to Biden, with the possible exception of Fox's phone-in poll (big surprise..... more proof Fox viewers have been brainwashed). The only way Palin could legitimately claim a "win" is if you only give points for "folksy" style. I'll admit she held her own better than I had anticipated, but her continuing refusal to answer the questions and resorting back to "oil in Alaska" as answers reveals how shallow she is. But then again, all this smokescreen about Gwen Ifill's book was just the latest desperate attempt by the RWWs to put the bar of expectation for Palin on the ground so even a grasshopper could clear it. Congratulations, "Mission Accomplished".
I believe Ifill did a good job. Palin needs to know when to ask for another chance... Biden knows that little trick - Palin can learn from him.
She worked on her strengths, domestic energy policy, fighting the 'status quo' and appearing to be just one of us. She should start to get those points across to a national audience, she is running for 2012, not 2008.
But, as far as the moderator goes, Ifill I think did a credible job, and if nothing else, perhaps both sides have learned a lesson (especially the Reps) to do their homework as well. Sarah and her campaign committee should remember this for when she runs next time.
She worked on her strengths, domestic energy policy, fighting the 'status quo' and appearing to be just one of us. She should start to get those points across to a national audience, she is running for 2012, not 2008.
But, as far as the moderator goes, Ifill I think did a credible job, and if nothing else, perhaps both sides have learned a lesson (especially the Reps) to do their homework as well. Sarah and her campaign committee should remember this for when she runs next time.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
I see your Appeal to the public and raise you an ad hominem...
Sullivan has already flagged himself as a Palin-hater, pushing some of the more nasty Trig rumors. He has no credibility. The fact that you're quoting him once again shows your sophistry.
By the way, Markos Moulitsas said that Palin won the debate.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
He only surfaces with his Cut and Paste 2 months before an election. Then he crawls back into the hole.
He's been doing this for the past 5 years. Kind of getting on my nerves if you know what I mean.