turbo charged duratec 3.0

00ls5spd

00ls5spd

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I was searching google and came across this. I was just wondering if there is anyway to get the schematic (sp) on this engine layout for the noble? And if there would be anyway to have this format work with the pcm? I know the compression ratio is the real problem with the LS engines, but if this has been done on a production level vehicle then it must be able to be done.

[edit] Duratec 30

The Ford Duratec 30 Engine in a Mercury Sable.The 3.0 L Duratec 30 or Mazda AJ was introduced in 1996 as a replacement for the 232 in³ (3.8 L) Essex V6 in the Taurus/Sable. It has 2967 cc of displacement and produces between 200 and 240 hp (150 and 180 kW). The same basic engine is used in the Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mazda MPV, Mazda6, Mondeo ST220 and many other Ford vehicles. It is essentially a bored-out (to 88.9 mm) Duratec 25 and is built in Ford Motor Company's Cleveland, OH #2 plant. A slightly modified version for the Ford Five Hundred entered production at the Cleveland, OH #1 plant in 2004.

There are two key versions of the Duratec 30:

DAMB - The Lincoln LS and Jaguar AJ30 versions have direct-acting mechanical bucket (DAMB) tappets. Output is 232 hp (173 kW) at 6750 RPM with 220 ft·lbf (298 N·m) of torque at 4500 rpm.
RFF - The Taurus/Sable/Escape version uses roller finger followers (RFF) instead and produces 201 hp (150 kW) at 5900 RPM with 207 ft·lbf (281 N·m) of torque at 4400 rpm.
The 2006 Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, and Lincoln Zephyr feature a version of the Duratec 30 utilizing variable valve timing. The engine has an output of 221 hp (165 kW) at 6250 rpm, and 205 ft·lbf (278 N·m) of torque at 4800 rpm.

A Twin-turbocharged version of this engine is used in the Noble M400, a British supercar. The engine is rebuilt and tuned to a max power of 425 bhp @ 6500 rpm, with a torque figure of 390 ft·lbf @ 5000 rpm. Noble has used forged pistons, an oil cooler, a larger baffled oil sump and extra cooling ducts to maintain its durability.

Mazda's MZI version adds variable valve timing, as does Jaguar's AJ30. Note that the MZI name is also used in Europe on Mazda's version of the Ford Sigma I4. The 3.0 L, 226 hp V6 used in the Mondeo ST220 is called Duratec ST. The 3.0 L, 204 hp V6 in the Mondeo Titanium is called Duratec SE.


I also found this info:
3.0-liter engine is sourced from Ford, tuned by Roush Technologies and fitted with two Garrett T28 turbochargers. It generates 425 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque
 
old old news.

It's hardly the same engine - only the block casting is the same.....
 
To dredge this up from the past.... What are the differences here and if you know its a $20k engine, what goes into it or atleast who really does do the American engine stuff for this car so I can talk to them.

Thanks,
 
again - the only thing that's the same is the block casting.

this engine is not even an option in the US.

1g Racing chassis are sold without engine and transaxle. Similar USA engine specs are available from independent engine builders
Click to expand...

our gas and emissions are very different here - same issue many euros have....
 
We'll I'm not after 424hp, I doubt the tranny would take it and it would be more than a pain to adapt something else in for a tranny. I realize that the specific Noble M400 and M15 engines are not available here. I come from the world of Buick turbo and supercharged V6's and seeing the Noble's usage of the basic 3.0L engine makes me interested in finding out how to simularly upgrade an LS since I've practically fallen in love with a 2003 Aspen Green (the dark green) LS V6 here. My only real gripe about the car from a driveline aspect is its lack of low end power... hense small turbos added on. 300hp would be plenty for me and the ability to say... yeah I have the only twin turbo V6 LS would be cool. I think its in the realm of the stock computer if it will run your M90ed 3.9L V8. Again I don't own the car and I might not ever but I like to know lots about lots of stuff and I'd appreciate any information passed on you know about the differences in basic hardware between the Noble 3.0 and the LS 3.0. Specifically the rotating assembly. Is there a different crank in there for the higher output? Are the heads the European VVT ones from the Jag/Mazda engines?

Thanks,
 
the engines for the US arw manufactured to Noble specs by AER in Texas. http://www.aermanufacturing.com/manufac/ourcust.html

I believe the engine itself is about $5k but the turbo's, oil coolers intercoolers, manifolds, fuel delivery system, engine management system programmed by Rousch,etc bring the cost up to $20K. and before you say well just give me the engine, realize it's been purpose built for turbos, the compression ratio is way lower than the LS engine, so without the turbos it's a dog.
 
Thank you. Do you know if they are using stock ECM's or aftermarket? Think they would sell the "large" parts such as the headers stand alone? They may recieve a call from me tomorrow to discuss this.
 
Hmmm from what I can gather the ECM they use is a primative N-Alpha setup which I dispise even more than speed density. Considering the tranny is also in the ECM I believe (remember I am a GM guy from experience) it wouldn't do anyway. The general summarization I can tell from AER is that the crank is stock, rods are aftermarket (did I read the stockers are forged though?), and the pistons are of course aftermarket pieces. Heads appear to be stock US pieces with European cams. The rest of the stuff isn't needed because I'm not fitting it to a Nobel. I really need to find pictures of the front accessory drive on the LS V6 and the Nobel mounting of the various turbos and such for comparison.

Good 3.0L info might be a repeat, I'm new to this line of thought:
http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/eb90546.htm
 
More and more reading, sorry for the consecutive postings but I prefer to do this more stream of conciousness rather than complete an exhastive report as it often helps others later with simular search questions.
3.0L Duratec, LS specific info:
Crank: 3.13" deep pilot Forged Steel
Connecting Rods: Forged Cracked Cap Powdered Metal
Pistons: 4 eyebrow (largely irrelevant since you need lower compression)
Block: 3W4E casting code (same as every other post late 99 block)
Intake Cams: Unknown but assumed to be VVT with 42 tooth sprocket
Exhauste Cams: Fixed timing 1X4Z-(B/C)A (B for Left, C for Right)
Heads: Direct Acting Mechanical Bucket VVT (unique to the LS and the Jag) ((love the connection with the old school HiPo solid lifters))
Intake: No word but I bet that the DBW on the LS/Jag is unique to those platforms and would require retension.


Questions:
Does the 2003 LS 3.0L V6 have VVT on the intakes as per the above link and information?
Does anyone tune the stock V6 computer currently?
Is there a difference in transmissions between the V6 and V8 as far as strength goes (GM RWD 4L60E's for example are the same between the L36 3.8L V6 and the LS1 5.7L V8 as far as internals)?

I'll do some searching (I admit I've not done much in the way of searching in the differences) but if you have a chance please answer here too.

Thanks,
 
The '03+ LS engines both have VVT.
AFAIK, the tuners who do the V8s also do the V6es.
The V8s and V6es use the same automatic transmissions (5R55N for '00-'02; 5R5S for '03-'06).
 
Much appreciated on the info, this mental project is going somewhere.
Basic idea:
Custom slugs (9.0:1 compression for less dependence on the turbos)
Otherwise stock shortblock
Consult with the tuner for the choice of exhauste cam, probably stock intake cam unless there is a turbo application to steal a VVT intake cam from.
Was thinking, the DBW TB could actually be mounted to anything with the proper flange since there are no cables to route and wires can be spliced so intakes could be open but likely not.
Headers, turbos, intercoolers and such would require an actual engine bay and consultation with a turbo expert though a pair of common Subaru WRX turbos would likely do nicely though they aren't ball bearing which I do really like and am putting on my Buick 4.2L Turbo6.
 
if you are going to be happy with only 300hp - then why not just get the V8 (stock 280hp) and add intake, exhaust and a tune?
 
Ok, I'm home from work and school so I can reply to the things I could only read during the day.

If 300hp is the limit... I think Quick would have broken lots of stuff by now and I couldn't find any mention of a fragged tranny or diff on his mods list as improvements.
As for why go for the V6... I can't find a dark green one, simple as that. I'm so taken by it I only want that colour. Find me one with under 50k miles and I'll take the V8. Also, this is a mental exercise as much as it is a mod plan. I'd put it at about 35% chance I'd actually go through with this since I already have 1 hot rod and another definite one planned behind it and modding a daily driver is risky, especially on a car with already known transmission and diff weak points.
I like turbos because they provide power when you need it and remain largely transparent when you don't. My M90 eats up almost 2mpg on the freeway with the BBV open with a stock 3.8" pulley. A roots blower, no matter how refined, is going to eat power since it is a possitive displacement pump and it is rpm dependent on your max available boost. I really like messing around with stuff like this in my head but I've so far only put 1 idea like this into practice with an OBDII system for my Turbo6 going into my Riv. Its not complete or running yet but I have the parts and will have the tuner after I move.
 
If you're talking about a V6, manual, it's a different animal than Quick's. The transmission and rear end will have a problem handling more torque, it's just a matter of finding out where the breaking points are, I would suspect not far north of 300HP. That MTX transmission is not very big and unless the components are made of some exotic metal, not really sized for much more torque. The diff is geared shorter than the autos and again will be adding to the stress on the tranny.
 
The 8" open diff is likely the weak point - then the trannie.

as mentioned in the other threads - I'll be upgrading the diff to a 8.8" Torsen to deal with that.

the trannie - i probably will not do myself - but there are apparantly upgrades - carbon fiber discs, stronger internals available. The Explorer crowd is upgrading them, and LenTech is work the 5R55S for the Mustang crowd. The issue will be the 550ft/lbs of torque limit - multiplied by the convertor - hoping that you lockup before making 275ft/lbs on the motor.
 
They don't make a stick for the V6 in 2003 and I"d never pair a turbo with a stick myself since I think like a drag racer and that means no torque converter, no on the line spool. With a 2 year warranty and a 3 year car payment I'd not do anything for a while other than maybe build a spare engine in the garage to go in when she's fully mine. Going to have to follow how you put an 8.8" in there (good diff, basically a Chevy 12-bolt but more common).
I'm one of those calculating people that it takes awhile before I do stuff, hense the 3yr engine build on my Turbo6 and I bought the major engine mods for my L67 just before the accessories started dieing and I've never installed them. I'll stick to exhauste, intake, brake, and suspension upgrades till she's all mine and I might have another car to drive as reliable transporation and innovators like you have fixed many of the weak points or figured out how to fabricate aroudn them.
Oh by the way... I'm from Pflugerville originally, I might request an audience with you and your machine when I head home for a holiday or something.
 
Did Ford make significant upgrades to the 5R55S before putting it in the Mustang? There are Mustang guys with 450 hp and the stock trans has held up through a couple of summers of track time. I don't think the trans would be the problem.
 
Here's a little more oil for that fire-- this is a pic of the new Noble M15 with the duratec that Noble claims to have increased to 500HP!

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/30/500-hp-noble-m15-on-its-way/

noble_m15_1280_18.jpg
 
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