Timing chain tensioner. Again.

pektel

pektel

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Got the bank 1 secondary chain tensioner changed back in December. Had the bank 2 replaced before that. STarted the car up on Sunday, and heard that nice ticking noise again. Sounds like it's coming from the chain tensioner area again, and on the side that I just got repaired in December.

I have the car at the same shop who did the repair for me, as it should be covered under warranty. Just got off the phone with them and told them to pull the valve cover for further inspection.

What concerns me, is a comment my mechanic made. He's worried that there is something that may be causing the extremely premature failure of the part. Even mentioned something about oil delivery. I mentioned to MAKE SURE HE INSPECTS THE CHAIN FOR STRETCHED/DAMAGED LINKS. And that if I need to, I'll buy a secondary chain with master link so they can replace without pulling the front cover.

Just wondering some input from the resident experts here, so I have a better idea of what direction to take. I have an appointment for the quarter panel repair on June 17th, so I need to get these guys going on the engine work to keep that other appointment.

Or cancel the body shop appointment, and burn the LS to the ground.

2000 3.9 180K
 
I seem to recall (maybe it is a false memory) that they made some changes to oil pump on the 2001 & 2002 because of some timing chain oiling problems with the 2000. Bigger changes were made on the 2003 and up.
 
Thanks, Joe. I'm going to mention that to them, and see what they can dig up. I've not researched it at all, except to find that the oil pump is a discontinued part. If it's something that needs to be remedied.
 
It's a 13 year old car with 180k. There comes a point, where all this money spent on expensive and ever increasingly hard to find parts will just lead to more parts replaced. How comfortable are you going to be with a 200k LS? I know if it were me, I would have constant thoughts of parts that should probably need replaced soon and wouldn't be too confident on long trips.

I love the LS, I really do. Its a wonderful chassis that still underpins great current jags. However, with that being said the technological advancements that have come about in those 13 years for your car (7 for mine) have really left us behind. In terms of real world comparison our cars performance seem outdated by more years than they actually are.

My .02c, if this is some random bad tensioner replace, it and live on until another issue arrives. If something extensive is causing them to fail prematurely, I would most definitely keep an eye out for future rides. I have been attached to older vehicles that I liked before and I pretty much knew in my head what I just told you, but really needed someone to tell it to me before I actually took it into consideration.

Edit: Over in the C list finds, someone is giving away an LS on craigslist, lol. Just a thought.
 
I agree completely. Right now it's more affordable than a car payment. There is a beauty in having my car free and clean. This tensioner is being replaced under warranty. No cost to me. BUT, they did tell me that if I don't let them pull the front cover, they won't warranty it a second time. Fine by me. I'm not paying the labor to remove the front cover. THAT is too expensive.

When the costs of repairs overcomes the cost of what a new payment would be, I'll take the plunge. But you are right, I have been keeping an eye out for a deal lately. Actually was looking at something with 4 wheel drive. Though it's not a ford vehicle. A nice 04 Tahoe Z71. It was the shorter body style, which I like.

And I hate to say it because it's an econobox, but the brand new Fusion is no slouch in the looks department. I just don't know if I can go to a wrong wheel drive.
 
Ha, just kidding about the warranty. Tensioner is fine. But the chain itself isn't.

Of course, they aren't happy about me wanting to use a chain with a master link, but that's my only course of action. They explicity stated they'll do it, but NO WARRANTY. Which is fine with me. Ordering this in the morning:

http://stores.christophersforeigncarparts.com/-strse-71/Lincoln-LS-timing-chain/Detail.bok

I'm already into it for the labor of pulling the valve cover, so doing this is minimal, cost wise.

What do we think of chains with master links?
 
I don't understand why you'd want to force them to use a master link chain, thus voiding any future warranties with it. A master link to me is a weak point because it's a point where the chain can be opened. A solid chain with no master link is going to be stronger because there is no dismantlable link in it. And, if they are doing the whole job as a warranty let them do the job the way they want.

On the oil pump, I don't see any reason why a newer oil pump, like a 2003-2006 pump wouldn't work in it. The same engine architecture should use the same oil pump, at least that's the way it is in the Chevy world. An actual Jag pump might even fit. Seeing as there is a known issue (as mentioned above) with the 2000-2002 oil pumps, no reason to not have them install a new one while they are in there.
 
I've had this bookmarked for awhile. Doesn't say anything about an oil pump, but it tells when the chains were updated. Good info though.

Engineering Changes to the 2000 - 2001 - 2002 - 2003 - 2004 Lincoln LS

07/15/99 - V8 Rear end changed to 3.31 was 3.58
07/15/99 - V6 MTX rear end changed to 3.07, was 3.31 *
07/15/99 - Autumn Red paint replaces Cordovan
Sep 99 - Base models start shipping with wood trim steering wheel.
12/15/99 - PCM Software Updated
Jan 00 - Seat heating elements revised
02/28/00 - Sport: spare tire changed to 16" full size on a steel wheel - was 17" on super silver wheel
02/28/00 - Sport Model: Sub-Woofers deleted from Alpine Audio
02/28/00 - V8 Models: Adjustable rear headrests deleted
02/28/00 - V8 Models: Rear Half-Shafts updated
02/28/00 - Front Sub-frame connectors (re-inforcements) added. f/r weight balance is now 52/48 - V6 & 53/47 - V8, was 51/49 - V6 & 52/48 - V8
02/28/00 - Rear upper shock absorber mounts changed
07/17/00 - Start of production for 2001 Model Year Lincoln LS:
------ Cup holders on console changed, larger, folding cover deleted
------ Traction control added to V6 MTX (standard)
------ Advance Track now optional on V6 MTX
------ Glow in the dark manual trunk release
------ Rear seat child seat tethers changed
------ Power point added to rear of console
------ Valet Key (switch) added
------ Compass added to electrochromic rear view mirror
------ V8 emblem added to passenger side tail light on V8 models
------ Chrome 17" 5 spoke wheels optional on Sport, Std. Premium
------ Polished 5 spoke 16" wheels now standard on Base V6 & V8 models
------ Premium Package added
------ 6 CD in dash changer now standard with Sport & Premium models
------ RESCU option is deleted
------ New paint colors: Medium Charcoal Green, Medium Cypress Green, Pearl Blue, Aqua Blue, Ceramic White (Premium model only)
------ Deleted paint colors: Dark Green Satin, Graphite Blue, Deep Wedgewood Blue, Vibrant White, Estate Green
Aug 00 - 5R55N 1st gear ratio changed to 3.22, was 3.25. This also changes 2nd to 2.42, was 2.44.
10/18/00 - PCM code updated effective
Dec 00 - Analog cell phone option (code 518) discontinued
Mar 01 - Sport & Premium spare changed to 17" mini - was 16" full size on steel wheel.
Jun 01 - PCM calibration updated - note the software is the same as the Nov 00 update, New update just corrects which models it is applicable to.
07/16/01 - Start of production for the 2002 Model Year Lincoln LS:
------ Intake air-box changed
------ V6 Exhaust system changed
------ V6 HP 220 @ 6,400 RPM, Torque 215 ft lb @ 4,800 RPM (was 210 @ 6,500 / 205 @ 4,750).
------ V8 torque is now specified as 261 ft. lb. @ 4,300 RPM (was 267)
------ 6 CDX in dash now standard on all models
------ 7 spoke 16" brushed alumium wheels replace 5 spoke (std base models)
------ 7 spoke polished 16" wheels now optional on base models
------ Full Alpine system with sub woofers standard on Sport.
------ All Season Package, heated seats & Advance Track replaces stand alone options.
------ Aspen Green paint color replaces Medium Charcoal Green
------ VCS system now optinal uses Motorola Timeport phone and requires Sprint airtime.
------ Model arrays V6 Base, V6 Convenience, V6 Sport replace package options (i.e. Sport PKg, Conven Pkg etc.)
------ Valet switch deleted
------ 132 MPH Governor added to V8 models
------ Engine oil is now 5w20 synthetic blend (was 5w30 conventional)
Sep 01 - V8: Cam chains changed to eliminate resonance (whine)
Sep 01 - 5R55N 5th gear changed to .71 (was .75) 2nd becomes 2.29 (was 2.42)
Sep 01 - RPM of 1st to 2nd gear upshift is increased
Jan 02 - Rear Half-shafts updated
Jan 02 - Silver Birch paint color replaces Silver Frost
Jan 02 - Charcoal Grey paint color replaces Midnight Grey
Jan 02 - Retainers for wire in power window mechanisms changed to metal part.
Jan 02 - LSE Model added, Black or Silver Birch colors only
Feb 02 - Vivid Red Color optional at extra cost for limited time.
Aug 02 - Vivid Red Color in no longer orderable
Jun 02 - Headlamp covers revised
07/15/02 - LS V8's start shipping with FL-218 oil filters (was FL-2008)
10/21/02 - Production start of model year 2003 Lincoln LS
------ 3.0L V6 Engine: Variable cam timing is added, new intake manifold, new exhaust manifolds. Ratings are now 232 HP @ 6750 RPM and 220 lb. ft @ 4500 RPM
------ 3.9L V8 Engine: Variable cam timing is added, new intake manifold, new 4 into 2 into 1 dual chamber exhaust manifolds, new cold air / throttle body arrangement, compression ratio is now 10.75:1 (was 10.55:1) and new fine tooth cam chains. Ratings are now 280 HP @ 6,000 RPM and 286 lb. ft. @ 4,000 RPM
------ Electronic throttle control is added
------ PCM code is extensively updated for new engines & ECT
------ Redesigned engine mounts (V6 & V8)
------ Engine fan is electric (was Hydraulic)
------ Alternator and power steering pump updated to reduce noise
------ V8 rear end ratio is now 3.58:1 (was 3.31:1)
------ Exhaust systems are updated
------ Polished straight back exhaust tips are added
------ ZF Servotronic II Steering box replaces Visteon unit
------ 5R55S (synchronous shift) transmission replaces 5R55N
------ SST now allows 1st gear starts in SST mode
------ Sport models now use aluminum rear brake calipers
------ Revised suspention tuning including larger shock absorbers and new anti-sway bars
------ Advance Track software is updated, to improve understeer control
------ Rear shock absorbers now have internal rebound springs
------ Spring rates are reduced by 10%
------ Updated hollow rear axle shafts
------ Tuned masses added inside front doors to reduce vibration resonance
------ Cabin sealing is improved by 20%
------ Front center arm rest has a sliding cover
------ Electric emergency brake assist is added
------ Front & Rear subframe mounts are updated
------ V6, 5 speed manual transmission model is no longer available
------ Electric Parking Brake replaces manual parking brake
------ Console is updated and enlarged
------ Heated and Cooled front seats ( 3 range) replace 1 range heated only seats (not available on base models).
------ Heated rear seats are now optionally available.
------ V6 base & Premium models now come with P225/55VR16 tires (was P215).
------ Automatic Windshield wipers are updated Generation II system.
------ THX Audio / DVD Navigation System now optional
------ Rear Parking Assist now optional
------ HID Headlamps now available (V8 Models only)
------ Front and Rear facias are updated
------ Fog Lamps now have round reflectors
------ Front Grille has chrome trim around the entire grille
------ Front Grille vertical blades are different in shape and color
------ Rear tail lamps are smaller and now have multi-color lenses
------ Rear licence plate trim is revised.
------ Folding rear view mirrors added to Premium Models
------ Puddle lamps added to rear view mirrors
------ Electrochromic driver's side rear view mirror added (Sport & Premium)
------ Keypad entry added to driver's side door
------ Front windows are now one touch automatic down and up
------ Power adjustable pedals added
------ Center brake light is now "high mounted" at top of rear window and uses LED's
------ Numerous interior updates include enlarged storage compartments, material upgrades.
------ Sunglass compartment added to front of headliner.
------ Dash board center stack is now Satin Nickel finish (was black).
------ Moldings below doors are now 1 piece
------ Instrument cluster graphics are changed
------ Interior grab handels now are folding with damped mechanisms.
------ Sun visors are now dual units.
------ Air Bag restraint system is now new generation Advanced driver and front passenger dual stage with occupant position, weight and seatbelt usage sensors.
------ Front & rear floormats are now 20 -oz. Shiva carpet with Maslite backing.
------ Rear seat reading lamps are now directional.
------ Base models now come with Black Laquer interior trim panels, all leather steering wheel and leather shift knob.
------ Sport models now come standard with Aluminum interior trim panels
------ Premium models now come with real American Walnut Wood interior trim panels.
------ Base model audio system now comes with single CD and audio cassette.
------ Premium models now have larger headrests which include adjustable rear headrests.
------ Glove Box CD changer is no longer available.
------ New 7 (14) spoke 17" machined wheels on Sport models
------ New 8 spoke 17" chrome wheels on Premium Sport models
------ New 11 spoke 16" painted wheels standard on V6 Premium & V8 Base
------ New 11 spoke 16" polished wheels optional on Premium model
------ New paint colors: Medium Steel Blue Metallic, Light Tundra Metallic, True Blue Metallic
------ Ceramic White paint is now optional Tri-Coat at extra cost and available on all models
------ Deleted paint colors: Medium Cypress Green , Aqua Blue, Pearl Blue, White Pearl Tri-Coat
------ New Two-Tone Interior colors: Dark Ash / Medium Ash, Espresso / Medium Light Stone, Black
------ Deleted interior colors: Light Graphite, Truffle, Light Parchment, Medium Parchment, Deep Charcoal
03/03/03 - Side Curtain front airbags now optional
03/03/03 - Aspen Green Metallic paint is discontinued
03/03/03 - Vivid Red Metallic paint is again orderable, option at extra cost.
03/03/03 - Interior wood trim option now available on V8 Sport models
07/14/03 - Scheduled date for start of production on 2004 model year Lincoln LS
------ V6 Luxury Array replaces V6 Base Array
------ V8 Ultimate Array replaces V8 Premium Sport Array
------ Heated and cooled seats are now and option on V6 Premium and V8 Sport (was std.)
------ HID headlamps are now optional on V8 Ultimate (was std.)
------ HID headlamps are now available as an option of V6 Premiuim
------ Moonroof is now an option on V6 Premuim array (was std).
------ Moisture sensitive windshield wiper function deleted from all models.
------ Rear Park Assist and Side Curtain Air bags only available bundled in "Safety and Parking Option".
------ Lincoln Soundmark label now used on Alpine & THX systems
------ Soundmark systems now have provision for Sirius satellite radio (late availability).
------ Sirius Satellite radio optional as dealer installed kit (late availability).
------ Front Grille ribs are now painted "Mediuim Platinum" was argent grey.
------ Complementary maintenance now 12 months / 12,000 miles (was 36 / 36,000)
------ Deleted Paint Colors: Ivory Parchment Tri-Coat & Light Parchment Gold Metallic
------ New Paint Colors: Cashmere Metallic tri-coat and Light French Silk Metallic
------ Deleted Interior Colors: Espresso/Medium Light Stone & Dark Ash/ Medium Ash
------ New Interior Colors: Dark Stone/Medium Light Stone and Shale/Dove

* '00 MY V6 MTX models were late availability. It is not clear if any V6 MTX models with 3.31 were actually shipped to dealer / customer orders. Source:http://www.lincolnsonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-35890.html
 
Telco said:
I don't understand why you'd want to force them to use a master link chain, thus voiding any future warranties with it. A master link to me is a weak point because it's a point where the chain can be opened. A solid chain with no master link is going to be stronger because there is no dismantlable link in it. And, if they are doing the whole job as a warranty let them do the job the way they want.

On the oil pump, I don't see any reason why a newer oil pump, like a 2003-2006 pump wouldn't work in it. The same engine architecture should use the same oil pump, at least that's the way it is in the Chevy world. An actual Jag pump might even fit. Seeing as there is a known issue (as mentioned above) with the 2000-2002 oil pumps, no reason to not have them install a new one while they are in there.
Click to expand...

No warranty work any more. It was only warranty if the issue was the tensioner. I am NOT paying to remove the front cover on the LS with the miles it has on it. $1400 labor, plus parts. Right now I'll be into it for $350ish. It was 250something in labor the first time around. Which is what I'll pretty much have to pay to have them do nothing, put everything back on, and attempt to drive it away. It would be foolish for me to do absolutely nothing when the labor part of it is already there regardless.

If it were under warranty, damn straight I'd have them pull the cover and fix things properly. But you have to keep in mind: 180,000 miles currently. I'm not expecting it to last another 50K.
 
Telco said:
...
On the oil pump, I don't see any reason why a newer oil pump, like a 2003-2006 pump wouldn't work in it. The same engine architecture should use the same oil pump, at least that's the way it is in the Chevy world. An actual Jag pump might even fit. Seeing as there is a known issue (as mentioned above) with the 2000-2002 oil pumps, no reason to not have them install a new one while they are in there.
Click to expand...

Everything that I have seen on it says that won't work. The pump won't match up to the oil passages in the block. Of course, I haven't tried it, so maybe I am misinformed.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...-LS-vs-4-0-Jag&p=862152&viewfull=1#post862152
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...)-amp-OIL-PUMP&p=799956&viewfull=1#post799956
 
So I just got off the phone from a quick call with Chris. He says that the master link is the same as what Mercedes uses, and he's been selling master link chain sets for 40 years with not a single master link failure. Sounds good to me.
 
Damnit. Why did I not think to replace the tensioner when doing the chain?

Just talked to the shop since the car was supposed to be finished today. They opened the box I gave them with the chain, and did not find a tensioner (obviously). Tensioner will be here in the morning.
 
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