But, Cal, you can't prove that it was the Left/Dems that 'encouraged this hatred' to happen. It is an example of hatred, but where the hatred stems from unprovable (other than the obvious AIG executives who received the bonuses) - I gave plenty of examples (and believe me, if it gets into a pissing contest I can hold my own with Shag on this one) of the right going on about the 'unequality' of the bonuses as well. There is also the media, both left and right, that jumped on the 'unfairness' of the bonuses. So, since you can't eliminate the other sources, you can't say what caused these people to act out. I would actually imagine it has more to do with the media's take on the issue, and their constant coverage of it at that point in time, but I can't prove that, just as Shag can't prove it was the Dems/Left.
This is the vile hatred that the Democrats and leftists are encouraging
- Thread starter shagdrum
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But, Cal, you can't prove that it was the Left/Dems that 'encouraged this hatred' to happen. It is an example of hatred, but where the hatred stems from unprovable (other than the obvious AIG executives who received the bonuses) - I gave plenty of examples (and believe me, if it gets into a pissing contest I can hold my own with Shag on this one) of the right going on about the 'unequality' of the bonuses as well. There is also the media, both left and right, that jumped on the 'unfairness' of the bonuses. So, since you can't eliminate the other sources, you can't say what caused these people to act out. I would actually imagine it has more to do with the media's take on the issue, and their constant coverage of it at that point in time, but I can't prove that, just as Shag can't prove it was the Dems/Left.
Actually I could but Shag has already done so.
Are they (Democrats and Leftists) the ONLY cause of it. No. But that's not what Shag has argued. He said they were encouraging it. And not only has provided additional examples, I think most of us are well aware that the Democrat party routinely uses class warfare as a political tool- especially when it's conveniently shifts focus away from their own corruption.
The groups that were organized and bused to protest infront of the homes of AIG employees were Democrat/liberal organizations. As I mentioned on the FIRST page of this thread, they were from ACORN an SEIU. The "media" fulfilled their obligation by showcasing these activists on the news, misleading the public into thinking they were an organic group of regular people, not an organized leftist rent-a-mob.
And while there are isolated examples of Republicans making vile statements, they tend to be the exception not the rule. However it was Democrat and liberal attorney generals and politicians who were threatening to release the names, addresses, and personal information of all executives who refused to voluntarily surrender their bonuses. That was clearly intimidation, and arguable, a thinly veiled attempt at physical intimidation, noting the passion of the public at the time.
Cal, check out post 140... I posted a story that was very similar - but, concerned a man who murdered people in a Church saying that they were terrible liberals, and he felt he should kill them because of that. In his home there were books by right wing pundits. I wouldn't feel comfortable posting that story with the headline 'this is the vile hatred that the right/Republicans are encouraging' even with the obvious circumstantial evidence presented... the story Shag posted has no evidence on what encouraged them to act, outside the fact they felt the bonuses were unwarranted.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Tu quoque does not disprove Shag's allegation. But keep doing it, your stubbornness is amusing. You are bitterly clinging to this tactic, just like we conservatives cling bitterly to our guns, religion, and racism.
Remember who made that divisive statement?
ford nut
Local nut case
Great observation.
I think foxpaws has been trying to tell this to Shag for a while now.
OBTW Hope your move went well.
Its such a pain....I have one comming up soon.
But here's the distinction that I'm sure Shag has been trying to make-
isolating one kook is vastly different than something that is organized and done by a larger group.
Phil Specter had an Obama button on his jacket the other day when he was taken to prison. If anyone were trying to argue that this demonstrated that there was a broader trend of Obama supporters putting handguns into the mouths of actresses, I'd argue to demonstrate the absurdity. This was an isolated incident involving a single individual, without the direction or organization of anyone else.
However, there had clearly been an organized and deliberate attempt to trump up the class envy and demonize the executive who received completely legal pay packages from AIG by DEMOCRATS and Democrat activists (along with some Republican politicians like Grassley).
But, let me get this clear, you're not actually arguing against what Shag has said, you're simply trying to dismiss it because "everyone," in your opinion, " does it."
Let's look at this...
This is actually what I am not doing Cal - dismissing Shag’s article – what I am trying to do is to say there are too many avenues that have expounded on the ‘evilness’ of the bonuses to just put the entire blame on just one of those sources. If 20 people end up at an open house – and that open house has been advertised in the newspaper, on the radio, on the internet, and local flyers, you don’t know how each of those people found out about the open house. But, if you saw a flyer in one of their hands – you ‘know’. Or, if in one person’s car, the radio is tuned to the station your ads are running – you ‘probably know’. In the case of this article, there are no ‘knows’ available.
I would say there is only one ‘tell’ in that whole article that points to an actual source…
This quote from the article
“We will hunt you down. Every last penny. We will hunt your children and we will hunt your conscience. We will do whatever we can to get those people getting the bonuses. Give back the money or kill yourselves.”
Sounds a whole lot like Grassley’s
The first thing that would make me feel a little bit better towards them if they’d follow the Japanese model and come before the American people and take that deep bow and say I’m sorry, and then either do one of two things — resign, or go commit suicide.”
The ‘kill yourselves/commit suicide’ is somewhat telling. Not many angry people would come up with sepuku on their own. I would say that this particular quote could show that maybe this angry person had heard Grassley’s interview. But, once again – I wouldn’t bank on it, unless they found this person, and it could be proven that they had been listening to Grassley’s interview. However, that is the strongest link I could find within the article. And that points to Republicans encouraging the vile hatred present in the article.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
How art thou logically flawed? Let me count the ways...
Tu quoque
Exception proves the rule
Red herring
Straw man
ford nut
Local nut case
But you agree that there is no proof or facts that connect the comments in the artiicle with any party....right?
Yep Mr Nut, there is nothing in that article that points to any political party...
I was searching for anything that would even come close in that article that would tie those people to an 'outside influence' - and that was it - one quote that I wouldn't even call circumstantial - probably actually more a coincidence.
I was searching for anything that would even come close in that article that would tie those people to an 'outside influence' - and that was it - one quote that I wouldn't even call circumstantial - probably actually more a coincidence.
Mr Wiggl3s
Dedicated LVC Member
Fox, i know you've heard that saying "Don't argue with an idiot. They only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."