They were Christian missionaries and we killed them all

[Marcus]

Hitler's "religion" was political expedience in amassing power. Wrapping himself and the ideals he promoted in the trappings of religion when the occasion called for it served that purpose. That is nothing new. Mussolini went farther and looked to establish the state as a religion.

The point is, giving lip service to Christianity doesn't make one Christian. Also, Hitler's Antisemitism did not come from Catholicism (though allusions to that in rhetoric could be used to sway people), it came from specific social/political schools of thought that were present around the turn of the century and was tied to his roots in socialism; Antisemitism was a personification of the anti-capitalist sentiment inherent in socialism.

Many of the same things can be said about most religious extremists, including Muslims: Leaders who bastardize religion to maintain power and control, while not actually believing a word they say. Weak-willed followers who, kept stupid and poor due to corrupt governments that are often run by the afore-mentioned charlatans, are empty vessels just waiting to be told what to think and do. The leaders tell them that the "infidels" are the cause for their miserable lives, and that the only way to find glory is to eliminate them. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.

Which is my point. If you're going to insist that Hitler invoked a bastardized form of Christianity to appeal to the people, isn't it plausible that some Muslim leaders are doing the same? If Osama bin Laden really believed what he was spouting, why wasn't he one of the first to give his life for Allah? Perhaps because he's just a power-hungry thug who happened to have a gift for inspiring the masses, but didn't believe a word of what he was saying.

 

[Calabrio]

where am i attacking it here?

You arrive every couple days, post two or three posts that are designed to instigate religious tensions. You're hostility towards people of faith is well known here and your recent actions confirm it.

As for Hitler.
The only people who call Hitler a Christian are those who seek to draw some moral equivalency with Christianity with brutality. They either just want to denigrate the religion, or use Hitler to excuse the genocide and murder associated with Communism or Islamism.

It's very difficult to discuss Hitler's bizarre sense of spirituality and any article that states it in such a matter of fact manner is likely dishonest or poorly written.

 

[shagdrum]

Many of the same things can be said about most religious extremists, including Muslims

Very true. But that doesn't mean that all religious extremists are bastardizing their religion, or even that all are bastardizing it unless and until proven otherwise. Things are not so simplistic.

Hitler's faith was only in himself, in hatred and fear of the Jews and in political expediency. To claim he was a man of faith is ignorant and politically opportunistic. That is not the same about these Muslim extremists, who genuinely are people of faith who are martyring themselves for that faith.

Perhaps because he's just a power-hungry thug who happened to have a gift for inspiring the masses, but didn't believe a word of what he was saying.

It is not hard to make the unrealistic seem plausible, however, that doesn't prove anything, especially when you have to oversimplify to do it.

 

[fossten]

where am i attacking it here?
is putting evidence of hitler as a christian attacking christianity?
the evidence was asked for.

There is no evidence that Hitler was a Christian, only evidence that he 'claimed' to be a Christian. I wouldn't expect an atheist with an ignorant, myopic, anti-Christian agenda to understand the distinction.

 

[Calabrio]

sure it's not the other way around? those trying to distance themselves from christianities brutal history deny hitler as a christian? i really don't care one way or the other.

Is that all you have to offer today?
Just reversing everything I say and putting it in the form of a question?
But to answer you, YES, I'm sure it's not the other way around.

it maybe did change some as his madness elevated, and there might be a case to make for it, but to dismiss he was a christian, is dishonest.

I think to label him a "Christian" is dishonest, because it's a lie of omission. And, as I've stated repeatedly, it's a much more complicated answer than that.

But more importantly, it's irrelevant.
His actions not were motivated or defined by Christian teaching. His actions weren't done in the name of God, but in the name of nationalistic German Socialism.

 

[fossten]

well, i'm sure he wasn't your brand.
but then you dismiss everything that isn't within your particular boundaries.
but there's no evidence your a christian here either. although you claim to be one.

So, when you run out of arguments, you make it personal. And you still cannot define what a Christian is. Got it.

 

[shagdrum]

just making a point. others do see it reversed from you.

And so many of them, like you, are incapable or unwilling to look at the issue from an opposing point of view.

 

[FIND]

And so many of them, like you, are incapable or unwilling to look at the issue from an opposing point of view.

This coming from someone who refuses to EVER consider the oppositions point of view? This coming from someone who is insisting Hitler was not christian just to protect christianity from having ever had a bad person in the religion?

 

[shagdrum]

This coming from someone who refuses to EVER consider the oppositions point of view?

Self-aggrandizing contention does not, on it's own, form a logical (or even coherent) point of view.

 

[Calabrio]

No one has claimed that there are no bad Christians or that bad people haven't abused the institutions of the Christian religion as a means of expanded their own power in ways that I think we all would describe as evil.

This distraction with Hitler isn't about "only good people being in the Church."
I don't know if you're making that claim because your confused or because you're building some kind of strawman, but it was apparently necessary that I clarify that.

Anytime you have institutions with authority in place, individuals will be compelled to use and abuse those things in an effort to expand their own power. This applies to religion, government, really everything. That's a characteristic of human nature.

But the identification of Hitler to Christianity is pointless if your effort is honest discussion. His spirituality was NOT clearly defined throughout his life, even his political rhetoric often times was opportunistic and borrowed from whatever source he thought would be most effective.

And, most importantly, his actions were NOT consistent with the teaching of Christ nor were they honestly done in the name of the Christian faith. They were done in the name of German national socialism. So linking Hitler with Christianity is a transparently dishonest effort to link the Christian faith with one of the worst mass murders of the 20th century.

Hitler of course was an amateur compared to the genocide and murder of the Godless communists, but that's a different subject.

If you want a REAL example of someone distorting and abusing the concept of Christianity in an evil manner in the pursuit of his own power, you need look no further than the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda. They completely fail to represent the actual faith and have twisted it into something that is not recognizable.

Simple way to imagine whether something is "Christian"
Can you imagine the Christ as you understand him to be, supernatural or not, supporting or engaging in the action.
It's really that simple.
Would Christ have engaged in a genocide of the Jews and "undesirables?" Would he have endorsed it.
No. And based on that, you get a good idea that the act isn't consistent with the teachings of Christianity.
And before you provide a context-less quote from the old testament, keep in mind that the new testament basically supersedes everything in the old testament.


The same logic can be applied to Islam as well.
What Would Mohamed Do?

 

[fossten]

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.