Steering Feedback

drag214

drag214

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Hello everyone,

It's been a while since I've been on here. I have been dealing with something and am in desperate need of assistance.

I have a 2002 LS V8. I've done a lot of work to this car. Here's my problem:

I get a lot of feedback when traveling over uneven or bumpy roads.
On the front axle I have replaced the upper/lower control arms, outer tie rods, sway bar bushings, sway bar links, lower ball-joints, and finally the rack and pinion. I have also inspected and tightened the steering column linkage.

I am at a loss. I don't know what else it could be. I found another thread with some other members that were having the same problem, (http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...-Steering-Handling-Problem&highlight=steering) but this thread went cold.

If anyone has any ideas please help.
 
Rear toe-links???

Shocks?
Intermediate shaft?
 
I have noticed one of the rear toe links is damaged. I was going to wait to start working on the rear axle.
I have not replaced the shocks.
What's the intermediate shaft?

Thanks joegr.
I'll look at those items next.
 
So your problem is getting feedback through the wheel? I thought that was a good thing in a sports car... Has it changed recently? My 02 has a heavy steering wheel with a lot of feedback. It catches me by surprise sometimes when I hit an expansion joint at 70mph, after driving my other car's numb/light wheel for a while
 
What I mean by "feedback" is turbulence on the road causes the steering wheel to turn. Instituting a loss of control. That's normally an indication that a steering component is loose.
 
drag214 said:
I have noticed one of the rear toe links is damaged....
Click to expand...

I'd start with those. They control the rear steering, which could cause problems keeping the car headed where you what it to go.
The intermediate shaft connects the steering shaft to the rack. It has two u-joints on it.
 
drag214 said:
What I mean by "feedback" is turbulence on the road causes the steering wheel to turn. Instituting a loss of control. That's normally an indication that a steering component is loose.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you're not complaining about how it is supposed to work. You should feel road through the wheel, but you should be able to hold the wheel steady.
 
joegr said:
Are you sure you're not complaining about how it is supposed to work. You should feel road through the wheel, but you should be able to hold the wheel steady.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm asking. I'm not trying to downplay your concerns, Drag, I'm just trying to rule out the chance it's normal. If it suddenly has gotten worse, or rips the wheel out of your hand, or bumps cause your car to swerve, then you have a problem somewhere. But the LS, and I believe Gen 1s more than 2s (G2s introduce variable assist), have communicative steering wheels. Some bumps feel like the wheel is getting ripped out of my hand, but the car remains straight and quickly returns the wheel. I'm only talking a few degrees of motion. The BMWs I've driven have the same feel to them

Uneven surfaces can also force the car to steer due to the suspension geometry. I remember standing in a moving golf cart while rocking it left and right pretty hard. The cart actually swerved back and forth in time with the rocking. Having some dramatic uneven bumps and dips can do the same
 
joegr said:
I'd start with those. They control the rear steering, which could cause problems keeping the car headed where you what it to go.
The intermediate shaft connects the steering shaft to the rack. It has two u-joints on it.
Click to expand...

I agree with joegr. If the front is fine loss steering is likely caused by the rear toe links. Jack up each rear wheel and check for play (try and move the wheel side to side). Any play replace the links.
 
What you describe sounds to me like bump steer. After replacing all the parts, did you get the car re-aligned? If not I'd start with this. They can also inspect the rear suspension to see what needs to be replaced there, if anything. If you also lowered the car during any of this, the car needs to be re-aligned to compensate for the new steering geometry caused by lowering the car. Since front suspension parts were also replaced, I'd have to wonder if perhaps some of the parts were incorrectly torqued. If one or both sides, say on the control arms, were too tight, it would interfere with the suspension's operation which would induce bump steer.

Here's a nice write-up on it as it applies to race cars. It won't apply to a street car so much since their suspensions aren't designed to be adjusted on a daily basis, but it will give a greater understanding of what it is.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/ctrp-1001-bump-steer-explained/
 
Thanks for all the information guys. I will looking into the items you all mentioned.

I will keep you all posted.
 
keep in mind aftermarket wheels (low pro tires) will play a huge difference in steering wheel feel (I didn't see it mentioned above). Stocks vs 20's is a huge difference in my car. They've been doing construction on my route to work (about 2 years going now), and I have to be careful what lanes I take and traffic around me.

Its not horrible, but just have to pay attention.
 
Hi, all. It's been awhile since I've been on but I'm experiencing the same thing as OP. There seems to be times when the wheels aren't happy with one another and the wheel will go from what I can describe as "weightless" or minimum force, to getting a good pull to either right or left. This is worse on roads more crowned, but I rarely remember having this issue a few years ago - which means it's not the normal sports car steering some suggested to the OP.

The the rub is IIRC, it gets better for a short time right after alignment. I've replaced:
Sway bar - 3 yrs (Gen II)
Front links - 3 years
front upper arms - 3 years
Lower moog ball joints - 3 years (driver side a a few months after because I got a bad bearing that started creaking)
Rear toe links - 2 years

I had the car up last night, thinking something could be loose and the lovely ppl at firestone ignored my statements. When I turned the drivers wheel 3/4 to the right I could hear a pop that seem to go through the entire rack. Also, I don't know if this is the passenger hub or tierod or rack issue, but when moving the wheel in and out from center there is a "dead" spot at the center point where there is minimal resistance.

Any thoughts on what these could be? Are they correlated?

Thanks in advance
 
rear toe links. jack up the back of the car and try to move the wheel side to side, gripping it
at the 3 and 9 o clock position. i'd bet the links are bad.
 
elephantrider said:
rear toe links. jack up the back of the car and try to move the wheel side to side, gripping it
at the 3 and 9 o clock position. i'd bet the links are bad.
Click to expand...

If that's the case, I'm replacing those links waaay more frequently than the average driver. And my spirited driving days are numbered.
 
Thoughts on that clunk sound and dead spot. I'm hoping inner tie rod is front passenger issue and not the whole rack
 
Broseph said:
Thoughts on that clunk sound and dead spot. I'm hoping inner tie rod is front passenger issue and not the whole rack
Click to expand...

Maybe, but the rack is more likely.
I doubt that toe-links failed in two years (unless they were aftermarket). Mine were fine (both cars) when I replaced them, but it was clear that with the boots gone they weren't going to be fine much longer.
 
DenisM09 said:
can you do the rear toe links on jacks? or does it have to be in the air, and do you have a write up on how to do them?
Click to expand...

You can, but you will get to get a four-wheel alignment ASAP after you replace them.
 
^ yes. easy to do. but agree, you need a full 4 wheel alignment after your done. it's a really easy job.
once you take a look under there, you'll see how easy.
 
joegr said:
Maybe, but the rack is more likely.
I doubt that toe-links failed in two years (unless they were aftermarket). Mine were fine (both cars) when I replaced them, but it was clear that with the boots gone they weren't going to be fine much longer.
Click to expand...

Not what I was wanting to hear on a Monday Joegr. Any way of testing to confirm or rule out the rack - or is that a dealer/mechanic visit?
 
elephantrider said:
^ yes. easy to do. but agree, you need a full 4 wheel alignment after your done. it's a really easy job.
once you take a look under there, you'll see how easy.
Click to expand...

Easy in theory, but it could be more difficult to do depending on the age of those links. Mine were original (11 years) and rusted pretty good. Soak the threads and nuts real good for a few days with "PB Blaster" or anot her pentrating oil (not WD 40). If that doesn't work, heat is your best friend if you're VERY careful - you're working close to the gas tanks
 
Broseph said:
Easy in theory, but it could be more difficult to do depending on the age of those links. Mine were original (11 years) and rusted pretty good. Soak the threads and nuts real good for a few days with "PB Blaster" or anot her pentrating oil (not WD 40). If that doesn't work, heat is your best friend if you're VERY careful - you're working close to the gas tanks
Click to expand...

Use a cut off wheel to remove and then replace all you sliced.
 
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