Some radio questions

[Cruznlife1]

MY LSE Has the alpine in dash six cd with 8 speakers.
Question, the steering wheel controls are wired right not RF ? Next questions before I pull the radio out, how many plugs are there, are there RCA inputs or outputs, and how many total wires ?

Does this radio have any security features as in, if I remove it from the car when I hook it back up it wont work ? I've heard of it but dont want to kill my radio. Thanks fellas

 

[Quik LS]

1) correct - wired. it runs through the clockspring at the top of the steering column
2) three plugs - 20pin, 16pin, 8pin (I'll post the pinouts at the bottom)
3) no RCA - you must use a PIE adapter
4) nope - had mine out many times, killed my battery many times....

According to the FOMOCO wiring diagram for 2000-2002, the factory harness connectors are wired as follows:

The large 20-pin connector:
Position 5 and 6 = right rear (- white and + gray)
Position 12 and 13 = left rear (- whit/violet and + gray/white)
Position 7 and 8 = right front (- white/red and + gray/red)
Position 14 and 15 = left front (- white/black and + gray/black)

Constant power = position 9 (orange.black)
Switched hot in start = position 3 (gray/orange)
Switched hot in run or ACC = position 10 (yellow/green)
Ground = position 16 (black/green)

The 16-pin connector contains the connections to the steering wheel controls and various data bus signals. The cassette systems with external CD changer have a connector dedicated to the signal cable for the changer.

On audiophile systems, there is an 8-pin connector wired as follows:
position 1 = sub + line level signal (gray/red)
position 2 = sub - line level signal (white/red)
position 3 = shield for sub amp signal
position 4 = +12 remote power to sub amp (yellow/red)
position 5 = center channel - line level signal (gray)
position 6 = center channel + line level signal (white)
position 7 = shield for center channel signal
position 8 = +12 remote power to center channel amp (yellow)

 

[Cruznlife1]

That answers everything, thanks as always quik, Watch for my writeup in a couple weeks, I'm working on a pretty severe little multimedia setup. NO hints until it's finished and I'm able to post up pics. Just keep an eye out

 

[shady586]

Sorry to bring an old thread to life but I have a question regarding one of the wiring harnesses that Quik LS gave the diagrams to.

On the 8-pin connector in audiophile systems, is it possible to integrate the center channel speakers with an aftermarket head unit? I am aware that the subwoofer harness that Scosche and Metra sell can integrate the factory amp & subwoofers but does this also integrate the center channel speakers or is there a way to do that separately?

I notice the Subwoofer Harnesses have two remote wires and two amp ground wires which would match up with the factory harness since there are two amps (one for center channel, one for subwoofers). BUT those harnesses only have one set of RCA cables which go into the subwoofer pre-amps on your aftermarket radio. I don't think low-frequency could be going through one set of RCAs and outputting to both the subwoofers and center channels, right?

So... the only way I could see it working is if there was a second set of RCAs on that subwoofer aftermarket harness that can be plugged into the front speaker pre-amps.

Has ANYONE had success integrating all of the speakers in a lincoln ls with premium sound into an aftermarket head unit? Specifically the center speakers?

 

[1LoudLS]

the 8 pin plug has the input wires for both the sub amp and the center channel amp, both are mono inputs, so for the metra harness, one rca connector goes for the subs, and the other goes to the center's

 

[Necronommicon]

So the RCS's aren't left right they are center rear?

 

[joegr]

So the RCS's aren't left right they are center rear?

One is center front, and the other is center rear (LF only).

 

[shady586]

Thanks guys. I knew something was up.

Just to clarify by LF you mean Left Front? So you'd put one RCA in the Left Subwoofer Pre-amp and the the other in the Left Front Pre-amp? Does it matter if you plug red into red and white into white or vice versa?

Also, I've heard that the center channel speakers aren't even used unless you turned on a specific feature on the stock head unit. I forget the name, "LBF" or something. Is this true?

What exactly do the center speakers do? Are they tweeters or mid-range speakers?

I immediately switched to an aftermarket unit once I got the car so I never actually listened to see what came out of those speakers.

 

[joegr]

Thanks guys. I knew something was up.

Just to clarify by LF you mean Left Front? So you'd put one RCA in the Left Subwoofer Pre-amp and the the other in the Left Front Pre-amp? Does it matter if you plug red into red and white into white or vice versa?

Also, I've heard that the center channel speakers aren't even used unless you turned on a specific feature on the stock head unit. I forget the name, "LBF" or something. Is this true?

What exactly do the center speakers do? Are they tweeters or mid-range speakers?

I immediately switched to an aftermarket unit once I got the car so I never actually listened to see what came out of those speakers.

By LF, I meant Low Frequency. Both of those RCAs are mono, center. There is no left or right for those two.

If your aftermarket head unit doesn't have a mono center channel output for the front center speakers, then you can get a "Y" cable to combine left and right out to make the mono in that you need.

The same goes for the sub-woofer input, but your output for it needs to be a specific sub-woofer output that is low frequency only (high frequencies filtered out).

 

[1LoudLS]

the center speakers are mostly for effects from the headunits DSP, and as no aftermarket headunit really has an output designed for this, i feel that it tends to confuse the sound stage of most music when trying to use them. i had mine hooked up for a while and ended up just disconnecting them (also i wanted to use the space for the factory amp as the spot where i wanted to mount my RS/alarm brain)

 

[shady586]

Well in my particular case I installed a Pioneer P3300BT Head unit. So I'm not exactly sure whether the sub/front channel pre-amps are mono or not. They have both a red and white input for each. The top set is for the rear output, the middle set is for front output, and the bottom set is for the sub woofer output.

They are 4v pre-amps and that's about all I know. In the manual it shows a diagram of the wires coming out of the pre-amps then into the external power amp and then shows the speakers connected to each amp and on each one it shows it splitting into two speakers and one says Left and the other says Right. That could just mean left and right speakers and not necessarily that it's stereo.

So yea this is confusing me. I thought I had it down but I've never kept the factory speakers in a car before when installing an aftermarket head unit but this time the Lincoln's sound setup is actually pretty nice for what I use it for. I'm not looking for ridiculous pounding I just like it to have a little bit of kick for rock music. But the subwoofers not being used makes a huge difference when listening to music. Everything sounds like there's no bass whatsoever.

The subwoofer harness is coming today so I will be attacking this within a few hours. I hope to hear from someone before then otherwise I'm just going to do trial and error.

Here's the back of my head unit. Hope that helps.

 

[joegr]

Well in my particular case I installed a Pioneer P3300BT Head unit. So I'm not exactly sure whether the sub/front channel pre-amps are mono or not. They have both a red and white input for each. The top set is for the rear output, the middle set is for front output, and the bottom set is for the sub woofer output.

They are 4v pre-amps and that's about all I know. In the manual it shows a diagram of the wires coming out of the pre-amps then into the external power amp and then shows the speakers connected to each amp and on each one it shows it splitting into two speakers and one says Left and the other says Right. That could just mean left and right speakers and not necessarily that it's stereo.

So yea this is confusing me. I thought I had it down but I've never kept the factory speakers in a car before when installing an aftermarket head unit but this time the Lincoln's sound setup is actually pretty nice for what I use it for. I'm not looking for ridiculous pounding I just like it to have a little bit of kick for rock music. But the subwoofers not being used makes a huge difference when listening to music. Everything sounds like there's no bass whatsoever.

The subwoofer harness is coming today so I will be attacking this within a few hours. I hope to hear from someone before then otherwise I'm just going to do trial and error.

Here's the back of my head unit. Hope that helps.

I would just ignore the center channel speakers and not connect those.

Your sub-woofer outputs may or may not be mono. Unless you find something in the manual saying that they are mono, assume that they are stereo. You can get an RCA "Y" cable to combine the left and right sub-woofer outputs into a single mono output for the factory sub amp.

For the factory sub-woofer amp turn-on wire, you should put a 1K (1000) ohm or so resistor in between the turn-on output from your headunit and the turn-on input to the factory amp. That will prevent pops when turning the unit on and off as well as possible damage to the factory amp.

 

[shady586]

I'm already aware of the resistor and it's supposed to be a 1450 ohm resistor as far as I know. But thanks.

I don't see this head unit having mono pre-amps. If there is a left and right channel then I would assume it's stereo. I think someone who knows a lot about head units would need to answer this because they would know this specific model probably. There is nothing in the manual that says whether it's stereo or mono as far as I can find.

Why do I get a feeling that I'm just supposed to plug the RCAs into the subwoofer output and it'll work? If both the center channel and subs need low frequency then wouldn't the subwoofer pre-amp provide that to both of them if I just plugged it in as red and white

Also... I got the wire and it says that for some application only the white RCA is used but with the 00 Lincoln LS that both of the RCAs are supposed to be used. So does that indicate anything?

 

[1LoudLS]

I don't see this head unit having mono pre-amps. If there is a left and right channel then I would assume it's stereo.

correct

Why do I get a feeling that I'm just supposed to plug the RCAs into the subwoofer output and it'll work?

because that is how it works, get signal to the amp (plugin) and turn it on(resistor)
except not both connector, just the one for the sub amp

If both the center channel and subs need low frequency then wouldn't the subwoofer pre-amp provide that to both of them if I just plugged it in as red and white

the center speakers ARE NOT the suppose to receive low freq (3 inch speaker) if they where they would just be more subs.



one signal goes to one amp, and a completely different signal goes to the other amp. (since the speakers are different sizes, they preform different jobs)

Also... I got the wire and it says that for some application only the white RCA is used but with the 00 Lincoln LS that both of the RCAs are supposed to be used. So does that indicate anything?

yes that indicates that both RCA's are used for some kind of input (see above)

 

[joegr]

I'm already aware of the resistor and it's supposed to be a 1450 ohm resistor as far as I know. But thanks...

Anything from 1000 to 5000 will work just the same.

... If both the center channel and subs need low frequency then wouldn't the subwoofer pre-amp provide that to both of them if I just plugged it in as red and white...

I said that the subs needed low frequency. I never said that for the center channel. The center need mid and high frequency only. If you insist on using the center speakers, then you need a "Y" cable. Otherwise, you center speakers will be left or right only, and that will make the sound stage even worse than if they were correctly connected to a center channel decoder. The best way to connect the center speakers is to not connect them at all.

 

[chocolat1701]

Don't worry about those small speakers they are useless when the Lucas firm optimized the alpine to make it thx certified they removed the center speakers they said that they don't do anything to improve the sound since the sound is low and poor and you don't have ears on your knees. So just don't use them. A waste of time traying to get it to work for no improvement what's so ever.

 

[02LincLS]

I put 3-1/2 2 ohm infinity kappas in the center with the aim-able tweeters. The driver's side plays right channel, and the passenger plays left channel. I often have multiple passengers so the 3-1/2's help maintain the stereo effect that gets blocked by the other person's knees. Its easily interchangeable if you wanted to swap left and right, or use Y cables to make it mono (aftermarket amp). They do help sound and easily notice if they're not on. I guess I would agree in your case since the factory unit is lacking a quality speaker and a center channel "gain" that they're useless. Goes to show you decent equipment means way more than thx certification.

I also put some 5-1/4's in the rear deck for imaging since there is a sub in the trunk. Helps out those door speakers by your ankles. How anything that blasts boomy resonating bass to the rear passenger's head is certified is beyond me.

 

[shady586]

Can you guys explain why the subwoofer stereo pre-amps should be converted to mono rather than just using the left channel as the mono output for the subwoofer harness?

What I mean is by just plugging the red RCA into the red RCA output on the subwoofer pre-amp shouldn't it provide mono signal to the amp which will send it to both subwoofers in the rear deck?

I've always heard that merging left/right stereo to create mono is not a good idea and it's only safe the other way around (converting mono to stereo by doubling the sound). Is there really a difference between the left and right channel when it comes to subwoofers and does using a Y cable actually merge the left/right channel and work better than just using the left channel?

I'm waiting to hear answers on this before I tackle this and install the subwoofer harness. I don't want to mess with the wires only to have to take the whole center console apart again because something was done wrong.

Do any of you have a picture of the resistor soldered into the remote wire? Just curious where exactly you decided to solder it and how well it was done.

 

[joegr]

Can you guys explain why the subwoofer stereo pre-amps should be converted to mono rather than just using the left channel as the mono output for the subwoofer harness?...

If your sub-woofer outputs are stereo, and you connect only the left one to the sub-woof amp, you will lose all of the right channel low frequency sounds. Most of the time, I suspect that the lows are equally mixed left and right, but I am sure there are some songs mixed such that one or more base instruments are only on the left or right channel, not both. For your example, you wouldn't hear any base instruments that were mixed mainly to the right channel.

That would bug me, but maybe it's not an issue for you.

 

[1LoudLS]

^^^ exactly

 

[shady586]

If your sub-woofer outputs are stereo, and you connect only the left one to the sub-woof amp, you will lose all of the right channel low frequency sounds. Most of the time, I suspect that the lows are equally mixed left and right, but I am sure there are some songs mixed such that one or more base instruments are only on the left or right channel, not both. For your example, you wouldn't hear any base instruments that were mixed mainly to the right channel.

That would bug me, but maybe it's not an issue for you.

I was thinking that but asked you guys first since I thought it didn't make sense because how would the amplifier know that the signal being sent to it was originally stereo before its merged into mono and have the ability to split the sound again from left to right if it's a mono amplifier?

That plus the fact that both Metra and Scosche only put a single RCA cable for each amp and claim it as the complete solution to integrating your factory amp into an aftermarket head unit. Why wouldn't they just include the splitter if it's needed considering 90% of head units have stereo pre-amps now.

I believe you as far as the possibility of bass going left or right but to be honest I've never once heard a song that only pounded one subwoofer. Anytime I watched subs pound they always mimicked each other. I guess I just didn't notice it.

*EDIT: I installed the subwoofer harness with the Y splitter like you said and it sounds like it works great. Both subs are on and it totally improves the sound quality and suprisingly the Lincoln's subs pound pretty hard with the new head unit. I was impressed. I didn't try it without the Y splitter.

But guess what, there is no popping sound after I installed it and I didn't even use a resistor. Perhaps those getting the popping sound didn't use the Y splitter? Or maybe my head unit just worked well with the subs. Who knows. But that's something to think about.

 

[1LoudLS]

Why wouldn't they just include the splitter if it's needed considering 90% of head units have stereo pre-amps now.

because some radio's do have mono outputs, and a lot of the ford systems use the same plug but have a different amp system, for example, the mustang with Mach 460 has two amps, one for both the woofers on the left side and one amp for the woofers on the right side, so in this case you would use it as a stereo input. and if you google the part number for the wire harness (70-5519) it shows the description as the "Mach integration" harness, which does use stereo inputs, however they are not going to repackage the exact same harness as another model number because shops want to stock as few parts as possible because we have to stock so many parts already, plus there is no need for it since the part works just fine anyway, if you need the splitter, then get it, if you dont need the splitter, then you didn't just pay for a part that your not going to use.

I believe you as far as the possibility of bass going left or right but to be honest I've never once heard a song that only pounded one subwoofer. Anytime I watched subs pound they always mimicked each other. I guess I just didn't notice it.

like i said most music is mixed together pretty even, but there are a few times that its not, for example, with a few music tracks that are just live instruments, to recreate the same effect of a live performance, a couple of instruments are recorded on the right track and a couple of instruments are recorded on the left track, in this case if the bass guitar or chello is on the side that is not plugged into the sub amp, then you will not hear all of the sound like you are supposed to. the whole point of stereo sould is to be able to have different sound come out of each side of the system.

But guess what, there is no popping sound after I installed it and I didn't even use a resistor. Perhaps those getting the popping sound didn't use the Y splitter? Or maybe my head unit just worked well with the subs. Who knows. But that's something to think about.

its not because of the Y splitter, i wouldn't bet on it working without the pop for most people out there




they really dont need to include the splitter, because if you are doing the install, its your responsibility to fully understand the system your integrating with and what needs to be done to make it right, if you need it then get it, if not your not paying for an extra part that you dont need, they also didn't include a resistor on the package (even though yours apparently didnt need one, but just about every one else did)

 

[shady586]

how did they lie, its the right harness, and it works exactly as promised

It's called sarcasm. It's not like I actually was crucifying them for lying. But regardless it works after using a splitter which they do not mention whatsoever. If they say it's for the Lincoln LS then it would make sense to state that the Lincoln requires a splitter so that people don't plug both RCAs into the subwoofer pre-amps and potentially mess up their center channel speakers. I researched everything on here before I even started hooking it up but some people may not because it says it's for the subwoofers and doesn't mention anything about the center channel when using it with the Lincoln.


Also, that subwoofer harness comes both packaged with the regular harness and by itself and on both it's listed as being for a Lincoln/Ford and doesn't say Mach anywhere on it. I don't know what advertisement you're looking at but the one I got didn't say it's for a Mach.

This is the one I bought.
Amazon.com: Metra 70-5702 8-Way Sub Plug with RCAs for Select Ford/Lincoln Vehicles: Electronics

Then on the actual Metra website it doesn't list Mach at all for the product mixed with the regular harness. It just says "Ford amplifier Intergration Harness 98-08" and you get there after entering 2000 Lincoln LS. So they list is at being for the Lincoln/Ford equally and it's not like this is a harness for the Mach that just happens to work on the Lincoln too like you make it seem.

I fully understand how the radio I bought works. But integrating a factory amp on a car I just got is not something everyone would know how to do right off the bat. Hence why I'm on the forum asking questions in the first place. How else would I know? A forum is an easy research tool because you can speak to people who have the same car and have already tackled all these little mundane obstacles rather than reading some stale old information posted on some webpage. I didn't find any information whatsoever about this harness except on this forum and that includes the actual Metra and Scosche websites. So there's no way I could know exactly how the harness works prior to coming here and judging by the multiple threads I've found in the forum search results it seems like every single person here who has done this has come here first to figure it out.

I still am wondering what the answer is to my other question. I see the benefit but still am curious. Wouldn't merging the two stereo pre-amp channels convert it to mono so you're just getting a mixture of both left/right channel being output identically to both subwoofers rather than true stereo? So when these rare instances occur where music should only be on one side how will it do that considering both subwoofers are outputting the same mixed signal?

I must be missing something here because from what I see you're essentially just making it so if there was a part in a song where for example the left sub channel was being used only that it would pound both the left and right rather than missing that sub pound altogether when you only plug it into the left/mono stereo pre-amp without the Y splitter. If you follow what I'm saying it essentially just spreads the sound amongst the two subs so the effect of only hearing a sound on one side is gone anyway. So I guess it's a glass half full over glass half empty scenario. It's better to hear the sound spread evenly then not at all? Do I have that right?

Anyway in conclusion I got it working and it sounds good so that's all I really care about. I set it up with the splitter and I'll see if I notice if any sound just comes out of one sub. Thanks for the help.

 

[joegr]

...Wouldn't merging the two stereo pre-amp channels convert it to mono so you're just getting a mixture of both left/right channel being output identically to both subwoofers rather than true stereo? So when these rare instances occur where music should only be on one side how will it do that considering both subwoofers are outputting the same mixed signal?

I must be missing something here because from what I see you're essentially just making it so if there was a part in a song where for example the left sub channel was being used only that it would pound both the left and right rather than missing that sub pound altogether when you only plug it into the left/mono stereo pre-amp without the Y splitter. If you follow what I'm saying it essentially just spreads the sound amongst the two subs so the effect of only hearing a sound on one side is gone anyway. So I guess it's a glass half full over glass half empty scenario. It's better to hear the sound spread evenly then not at all? Do I have that right?

Anyway in conclusion I got it working and it sounds good so that's all I really care about. I set it up with the splitter and I'll see if I notice if any sound just comes out of one sub. Thanks for the help.

Look, you have three possible choices here.

Choice 1: Factory subs/amp and no "Y" cable: Both subs would then play only the left channel sub sounds, because the right channel is not connected in any way.

Choice 2: Factory subs/amp and "Y" cable: Both subs will play mono (right + left) sound. It's not stereo, but you get to hear both channels.

Choice 3: Aftermarket amp: Get a stereo subwoofer amp and connect it correctly. Now you will have stereo sound from the subs (left from the left, right from the right), however it will work out just the same as choice 2 because due to the nature of low frequency sounds you won't be able to tell what is coming from the right sub from what is coming from the left one anyway. (They're too close together to be able to resolve sound direction at low frequencies.)


About the resistor. Most aftermarket head units drive the remote amp signal with 12V with a fair amount of current output. The factory amp expects a turn on signal of 6V or so at limited current. I don't know why you don't get turn-on/turn-off pops without the resistor, but there is still a good chance that you are damaging the factory amp by overdriving the turn-on signal. It may fail after running for several hours, days, weeks, months, or it may be okay from here on out. I wouldn't take the chance.

 

[shady586]

So basically exactly what I said. The subs just repeat the same signal to both subs so you're not getting the "left only/right only" effect anyway. But I'm just getting that single sided sound on both subs rather than not at all. Which like I said I can totally see the benefit still. I was just curious if I was right about the amp not being able to convert it to stereo.

As for the resistor thing I don't hear any pop whatsoever and I even had someone else start the car while I had my ear by the subs. One thing I do notice however about the Pioneer P3300BT is that some of the wires on the radio harness have resistors built into them. But the remote turn-on wire was not one of them but I'm not sure what the voltage output is on that wire.

I could be wrong but I've been researching the net and supposedly it's not the amplifier that's 6V it's only the remote wire coming from the factory head unit. Indicating that the amp itself can handle a 12v signal. Do you have anywhere that shows that the amplifier itself can only handle 6v?