Shake, Rattle ---- But it Still Rolls, for now

1

1986_MarkVII

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River City
1986 Lincoln Mark VII

engine: 5.0 L



Woman in the house.





While on my way to work this morning, I accellorated to get on the freeway while trying not to become road kill. :steering


Well my normally, speed racer Bill Blast, and yes that is how I spell it, because it’s my pun.

Anyway, my baby began to shake, rattle, and rolled to a stop.

I pulled over and sat there for a moment. She idled fine, so I ventured back into traffic and everything seemed copastetic. But when I accellerated, it began to shimmy and stutter.

On my way home tonight, it was worse. Idle at signals was rough.

When I pushed the accelerator from start to go, it shook, shimmied, and carried on all the way down to her hind bumper.

When I got home, my uncle jacked her up, crawled under her, and did the motor mount test. He said they are fine.



Any suggestions on what to check next?
 
you should check the cam, lifters, valves, crank, pistons, fuel injectors, intake, and everything that deals with the tranny.
 
1986 Lincoln Mark VII

engine: 5.0 L


Woman in the house. :steering






We're taking a lunch break, now.


We're replacing the U joints on the drivetrain. Fingers crossed this is the pancea fix.
 
1986 Lincoln Mark VII


engine: 50 liter



My uncle was unable to loosen bolts on universal joints. Tried using a pipe to give the wrench more torgue.


Big O Tires put on rack and double checked us on motor mounts, and transmission mounts. Okay.


They then determined that the universal joints were okay, too.


They then said I should take to a transmission shop to determine if the seal where the drivetrain connects with the transmission needs replacement.


I can't afford to go another round of fix everything until the problem is solved.


I'm still trying to recover from August and September's electrical nightmare that killed six new batteries, four tow jobs, replacing relays, switches, etc.


When the car is on its first run of the morning, it behaves fine. When it begins to malfunction, it acts like a tire is flat and it has a little resistence or stumping.

If I'm idling, it seems okay, a bit rough, but nothing to write home about. It is the accerlation that causes the rumbling. If it had a carburetor, I'd say it needed replacement or adjusting. But I know nothing about fuel injected motors.

Equally, when the car rumbles or shutters, I can feel on the gas peddle. It is like the car is experiencing an earthquake.


 
You may have a bad throttle position sensor. I unpluged mine on my 85 and has run great ever since.
 
Possible loss of power due to slipping brive belt(s).

Park the car in the driveway and pop the hood and try to recreate the shake by accellerating a few times. If you cannot recreate the shake then the problem probably is not in the engine.

With the car still in the driveway, apply the brake and then test each gear for about ten seconds. If you cannot recreate the shake then the problem probably is not in the transmission.

During a road test, does the shake only occur when:
going up hill?
going downhill
turning left? (this one tells me to add at least five gallons of gas and try again)
turning right?
AC on or AC off?

John "Trying-to-Hlp" Dancy
 
It only misbehaves when the pedal is to the metal

When it first happened, it was only when I accellerated uphill on the freeway on ramp.

Now, its when I'm at a stop and then proceed forward, or excellerate. While driving, it has a rough feel. When I take foot off pedal, it seems smooth.

The degree of the rumble and gagging is equivalent to the climb, except the one time, it was flat at the intersection. This was the first day. I had called my brother because I uneasy about what was happening.

While talking to him, the light turned green, and I drove forward, but the car bogged down, rumbled and shuttered all the way through to the back. My brother could hear it on the telephone that even the exhaust pipe rattled. He thought the car was acting like the motor mounts were loose.

She's been parked in the garage since Wednesday night.
 
1986_MarkVII said:
...
I drove forward, but the car bogged down, rumbled and shuttered all the way through to the back. My brother could hear it on the telephone that even the exhaust pipe rattled. He thought the car was acting like the motor mounts were loose.

She's been parked in the garage since Wednesday night.
Click to expand...
That could be a few things.
Again, it's cheaper to find out what is is NOT first. Off the top of my head, I'd say check transmission fluid level and the hold down bolt for your distributer.

From your description, it sounds like momentum is causing the problem. They don't call our transmissions "Slush Boxes" for nothing.

It also sounds like something is moving/twisting rearward on accelleration.
 
Transmission

OldSchool1 said:
Possible loss of power due to slipping brive belt(s).

Park the car in the driveway and pop the hood and try to recreate the shake by accellerating a few times. If you cannot recreate the shake then the problem probably is not in the engine.

With the car still in the driveway, apply the brake and then test each gear for about ten seconds. If you cannot recreate the shake then the problem probably is not in the transmission.

During a road test, does the shake only occur when:
going up hill?
going downhill
turning left? (this one tells me to add at least five gallons of gas and try again)
turning right?
AC on or AC off?

John "Trying-to-Hlp" Dancy
Click to expand...







Dear trying to hip dance :dancefool


Ran the tests and could not recreate earth quake sensation.

Put the Lincoln in the garage and cranked up the work-in-progress bug, my uncle lent me. No heat, no wiper-blade motor, and the headlights are heading off in different directions. Definitely a culture shock to go from the Lincoln to the VW.

Spent Sunday beautifying the Lincoln with a new headliner, side panels, and oem back dash with the oem Lincoln speaker grills. I had retrieved the items recently while romping through Pick N Pull with my brother in search of the his ever elusive Chevelle seats.

We happened upon a Mark VII in near mint condition, and for the life us, we were stumped at why it was at the junkyard. My brother tried to buy the car, but the dealer wouldn't sell.

Now, she's all dressed, with no place to go. :frown:

Anyway, this morning, I went out to garage to retrieve something from the dryer and there is was — transmission fluid on the floor flowing from under the Lincoln. Not much, just enough to have flowed out beyond the car.

I called a transmission shop and they said they would do a diagnosis for free, which I know means the estimate will require my first born plus a second on the house.


Signed,

Lincolnless in the River City
 
What is causing rumble and resistance into third gear?

John,

The transmission shop just called me to say my Lincoln's tranmission is okay, other than minor leaks at the coolent connection and the back seal, but nothing serious at this point.

He recommended I get the car to an automotive shop to have them run a diagnosis on the engine. He said that he too experienced excessive engine oil leak while the car sat overnight in their garage.

He said something about engine missing or check to see if its missing.

Is my Lincoln DOA?

I truly don't have the money for any major repairs. I literally survive paycheck to paycheck.


Becca
 
As a professional mechanic,

Well I'd say to let them check timing and ignition. It seems that the engine goes south under load. Let someone start y putting a good old OBDI scanner on it. ('86 had them right?) Check the distributor, check plug wires, pull the plugs and check the colors of the tips. Check the fuel lines. Has this happened for more than a gas tank already or are you on the same tank?
Let's see what else. Throw in some octane booster see if it reacts any different. Somehow I feel this has to do with ignition.
There's a lot of things you can do to troubleshoot for yerself. Don't know how the CFI works ('86 had those right?). But check the vacuum lines and pressure sensor as well.

Of course I'm not a REAL mechanic, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

Xander
 
Check the pressure in the fuel system!

I had experienced the same deal with my '88 Turbocoupe (should have never sold it! :Bang )...

The turbocoupes have 2 fuel pressure levels, one for non-boost situations and one for boosted. My fuel pump was able to keep up with the lo end, so cruising and idle was great...but as soon as I hit 10+ psi boost, the thing would pop, kick, shake and clatter like nuts (lean = not a good situation for a turbocar! :eek: ) I couldn't get it to do it when parked tho, as there is very little load on an engine revving in neutral!

In the end I needed a fuel pump!

Hook up a fuel pressure gauge and go for a rip...Maybe someone could concur with me, if you remove the vacuum line from the pressure regulator on the furl rail, the regulator will rise to max pressure?..could he try this?
 
Last edited:
1986_MarkVII said:
...
I truly don't have the money for any major repairs. I literally survive paycheck to paycheck.


Becca
Click to expand...
Hi.

As a Father with five Kids, five pets, five Mark VIIs, two adults and one income all under one roof, I completely understand.

I just wrote about four paragraphs describing what you could start checking on your car and realized that there are way too many possible causes for the three problems that you mentioned. I deleted them. I kept typing, "Assuming that (this) is correct" or "Assuming that (this) is adjusted properly" and it comes down to needing your car diagnosed properly with a "code reader". Once done correctly and thoroughly, the proper repairs can be made one at a time on a schedule that coinsides with payday. If you were within 25 miles of Philly, I'd DRIVE to you and do it myself for free.

*******************************************************
CAN ANYBODY ON THIS FORUM PULL HER CODES FOR FREE?
*******************************************************

1) Do as much preventive maintenance as possible (http://www.lscclub.org/tech/scheduledmaintenance.htm)
2) If problems still persist, have the codes read
3) Find out how the car's systems are ~supposed~ to work. Before repairing anything, you first have to know what it's supposed to be doing in the first place. (1986 Lincoln Mark VII Shop Manual printed by the Ford Parts and Service Division $1.00 to $40.00 on ebay)

With all that said I'm ~still~ gonna type four paragraphs! :)

Make sure that your engine and transmission fluids are clean and at proper levels. If not, Jiffy Lube replaces the engine fluid for about $40.00 and the tranny fluid for $100.00 (Hypothermic barrier means the cold new fluid coming in doesn't mix with the warm old fluid going out)

Your fuel pressure should be no lower than 40 pounds in the engine bay. The neighbor hood shop could check this for you at about $40.00 Low pressure is a bad filter or pump.

The ISC (idle speed control) should be clean.

The EGR (exhaust gas recirulator system) valve should be cleaned.

Your charging system and your fuel system and your air system all have to be working somewhere near factory specifications. If not, this could be another, "killing my battery overninght" type thread; you throw parts at the car, guessing that you've found the problem. One month later, you pocket book is empty and a mechanic finally says, "It's the one watchmacallit that you didn't look at."

My rant is over.

*******************************************************
CAN ANYBODY ON THIS FORUM PULL HER CODES FOR FREE?
*******************************************************
 
Does the motor skip at all??? This sounds like fuel/ignition problems to me... Check the fuel filter too. If that is plugged up, the motor will do all sorts of messed up stuff under WOT(pedal through the floor).
 
Update

1986 Lincoln Mark VII -- Bill Blass
engine: 5.0 L
OD: 116,777
Female in the House :steering


Diagnosis update:

I paid $95 to have a repair shop conduct a diagnostic. Here is what they said I needed to do and they added that they are not 100 percent sure it will solve the problem.

Synopsis:

"Owner cites shutter with excelleration up even slight inclines -- shutters are like an earthquake. Says drive and idle rough. Notes car is often overheated in cool climate and normal driving conditions. Says mileage has been decreasing since spring. Used to take 1.5 gals for round trip to work, now its nearly 3."


Assessment:

Engine far too dirty to make adequate assessment. Advised client of likely problem areas, but urged to get motor area clean to rule out all potential leaks.


Remcommendation

1. Thoroughly clean the engine of built up sludge. Murietta's does motor cleaning.

2. Replace transmission plugs on the radiator.

( My notes: There are two metal lines that come from under the engine area, one is reportedly for the transmission. These two lines resemble the fuel line on my old Impala that has a plug on the end where the fuel filter fits inside and then the plug screws into the front of the carburetor. The lines on my Lincoln screw into the driver side of the radiator, one over the other down the side. There are massive oil leaks from both plugs.)

3. No. 6 spark plug not firing. Replace all plugs. Wires worn. Replace along with rotor and cap.

4. Replace Thermastadt. Probable cause of overheating, compounded by engine sludge all over engine and radiator.

5. Transmission seal at engine seeping slightly. Transmission seal at drivetain slightlly seeping. Both need replacement, but not an urgent item at this time and could wait a few months.

6. Engine sitting on sway bars. Motor mounts and transmission mounts sagging. Replace with new mounts. Probable cause of shutter compounded my No. 6 not firing.

7. Oil change and replace filter and fuel filter.

8. Replace valve cover gaskets.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shop quoted $975 to do all that work and that does not include the $90 diagnosis or the motor cleaning.




This what I've been able to do, thus far:


1. Replaced spark plugs.

2. Replaced spark plug wires.

3. Replaced rotor and cap.

4. Valve cover seals. -- Took five hours and two cans of degreaser to clean the thick baked on slude on the inside and outside of the valve covers. Used rubber gaskets for resealing.

5. I'm still working on cleaning but this quite arduous using a paper towel. The sludge is truly thick and I don't want to use a steam cleaner because of all the electrical connections.


6. Got plenum off and deep cleaned the sludge off of it.


7. Replaced the pvc.

8. Did not have the upper body strength to get the motor mounts off, so, I called around for the best price and it was Midas for $296 to replace all three mounts.


I had to put the plenum and vacuum hoses back together before I was finished cleaning to drive to Midas this afternoon. After a week in the garage, I had to fille the brake reservoir with 3.5 pints.

To my disappointment, the Lincoln shuttered worst than before the improvements.

I had to travel about 5-10 mph on back roads because the shuttering was so severe the dash was rattling. The car stalled when I stopped. The idle still rough.


Worse, I have a hose on the back side of the plenum that I cannot ascertain where it goes. My Haynes is a lousy excuse for a manual. AllData's vacuum diagram is anybody's guess of how you match it to what is under the hood.


That's all news there is to print from the front :waving:




P.S. Old School, sounds like you have a penchant for fives.
 
1986_MarkVII said:
( My notes: There are two metal lines that come from under the engine area, one is reportedly for the transmission. These two lines resemble the fuel line on my old Impala that has a plug on the end where the fuel filter fits inside and then the plug screws into the front of the carburetor. The lines on my Lincoln screw into the driver side of the radiator, one over the other down the side. There are massive oil leaks from both plugs.)

6. Engine sitting on sway bars. Motor mounts and transmission mounts sagging. Replace with new mounts. Probable cause of shutter compounded my No. 6 not firing.
Click to expand...

Both of those metal lines are transmission cooler lines. If they both have massive leaks, they should be repaired or replaced, as catastophic transmission damage could result. Is the proper fluid level indicated on the dip stick?

If in fact the engine IS sitting on the sway bar, THIS is your ride disturbance! The mounts are there to hold the engine in place and in the proper position. Broken mounts allow the engine to move around when accelerating which wastes power. Furthermore, it is a safety issue.

Your stalling issue is most likely a vacuum leak. Do you hear a hissing noise when the engine is running?

Get someone to replace the engine and trans mounts. :)
 
Engine Mounts and Transmission Cooling Lines

One_Way said:
Both of those metal lines are transmission cooler lines. If they both have massive leaks, they should be repaired or replaced, as catastophic transmission damage could result. Is the proper fluid level indicated on the dip stick?

If in fact the engine IS sitting on the sway bar, THIS is your ride disturbance! The mounts are there to hold the engine in place and in the proper position. Broken mounts allow the engine to move around when accelerating which wastes power. Furthermore, it is a safety issue.

Your stalling issue is most likely a vacuum leak. Do you hear a hissing noise when the engine is running?

Get someone to replace the engine and trans mounts. :)
Click to expand...



Motor Mounts:

The car is at the Midas auto center to replace motor mounts and transmission mounts. I do not possess the strength to undo the bolts. I followed Awesund's advice for jacking the engine, but I could not get torgue on those bolts even though I used a pipe over the wrench.


Transmission:

I have been diligent about keeping the transmission fluid level at appropriate level, but, yes, I was aware that the loss was not normal, but it had not been massive and the transmission shop said it could wait a bit until I got the other problems resolved.



What is procedure?

After I cleaned the sludge off and around the two transmission connections to the radiator, I then unscrewed to take to parts store to match for a replacement. No can do. As I said in my previous post, the set up is just like the fuel line on the full size Chevys. The end of the metal line has a lip, so the plug cannot slide off.

This begets the question: What is causing the leak and how do I stop it? Is this a case of just using thread tape?

If anyone knows a step by step procedure, I sure would appreciate the help.


Hazard County

Where in Maryland is Hazard? My ancestors were the original pioneers that established Baltimore. One of my ancestors, who had a lucative east coast stage coach line, had the first contract to deliver mail. When the government failed to pay him, he stopped service until payment. They responded by creating a law making it a federal offense to tamper with the U.S. Mail. So he sued them for breach of contract and told them to take their postal service and do it themselves.

So, as you can see, I come from a long line of, "I don't need this happiness! I'm out of here!" :cool:
 
Not sure if there is a procedure to repair the leaks or not. If the leak originates from the flared line ends (where they plug into and screw into the radiator - one end - or the tranmission - the other end).

You can try a thin coating of teflon tape. Thin meaning wrap the threaded fitting twice with teflon tape. When reinstalling the flared end of the line into its respective fitting, make SURE it is centered in the fitting and properly sealed. Sorta hard to explain, you are just gonna have to feel it.

Make sure the fittings in the radiator and tranmission are clean.

Are there any rubber hoses on these metal cooler lines? It there are, the cooler lines need to be replaced.
 
Shake Rattle, Roll became Smoke, Shutter, Gasp

1986 Mark VII -- Bill Blass
5.0 L
Female in the House



Motor and transmission mounts installed, but, Lincoln still shuttered.

My uncle found that the two wires were in wrong place and one was not on securely. Fixed and voila! No more shutter.


But now, something more forboding.

Smoke emits from the oil spout.

What could it be?

I had taken the valve covers off and cleaned them, then reinstalled.

Also, the car has a slight hiccup or hesitation while driving.



I still have done the oil change and change of oil and fuel filters.
 
mine was doing something like that

turned out to be pinched fuel line between the top of the fuel tank and the body

checked my fuel pressure with a pressure guage and it was 15-20

now the line is good and the pressure good and runs real gooood ;)

just another suggestion
 
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