Run Lean Or Rich?

TorontoLS7

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Im playing around wth my tuner for a 2006 LS.

Anyone have thoughts on the WOT, and whether one should run +2 Lean or +2 rich? Which might be better for the car?
 
Im playing around wth my tuner for a 2006 LS.

Anyone have thoughts on the WOT, and whether one should run +2 Lean or +2 rich? Which might be better for the car?

that would depend on what the AFR is
 
Well 14.7:1 is stoichiometric so Im ASSuming he is basing he calculations off of that.
 
doesnt it run more rich already during wot??
 
Im ASSuming he is basing he calculations off of that.

you never know these days, people that are just starting to play around with these devices, might not even know that is something that need to be monitored.
 
Isnt the logic behind the lean/rich programming based off a baseline the factory computer decides (I.e. 14.7:1) and then is modified by the tune? So you can just decide what you want from the baseline? With the options he gave this was my impression. If it was a question of cc's or flow rate then I would guess we were working without a baseline but only the question asker can answer that lol
 
I agree..

I would say that you would need a wideband O2 before you start screwing with things like that..

A wideband 02 monitor can work magic for tuning without a dyno. I have an innovate motorsports setup and I think they can be had for around 300 or so without the datalogger.
 
Yea, that's about what they run.. For the amount of 'power' that you will increase (if you want to call it that), it's not worth the 300.. Imo though, it's a nice gauge to have in your possession..
 
At WOT a little rich is better than a little lean. Lean can lead to detonation which can be very damaging to the engine. 14.7:1 is a cruise ratio and it toggles from rich to lean across that number to keep the exhaust and cat from getting too hot and putting out high NOx emissions. EGR also has function in reducing NOx emissions. WOT on A/F ratio on a normally aspirated engine is typically in the 12:1-13:1 range. Boosted A/F ratios are usually richer down into the 11:1 area. Personally I don't feel A/F on a stock engine is worth messing with. My '03 requires premium fuel or I get tip in detonation (as I step on the gas). The factory engine is pretty close on tune IMO. There's lots of risk for little reward.
 
Engine performance all boils down to only 3 things: air, fuel, and spark. When it comes to the PCM, you're down to just fuel and spark (air flow is mainly hardware design, though VCT has changed that to some extent as well in the 2003+). So you can get better performance by running closer to MBT (minimum for best torque) spark or LBT (lean best torque) fuelling. The LS already runs LBT fuel (approximately 12:1 air/fuel ratio, compared to the normal stoichiometric 14.6:1) at wide open throttle (or wide open pedal for 2003+). Spark is normally the minimum of MBT and "borderline" (the spark level at which knock begins occurring). This is normally the only place where there's room for improvement from the PCM. But running closer to MBT when you're borderline limited would mean running higher octane fuel. But the LS already runs on premium, so you're going to need to find some really good fuel.

For most aftermarket tuning - all they really provide is additional spark advance. That's why they normally say to run premium fuel with the PCM change. But they were original designed for regular fuel, so the fuel upgrade option is much easier. This is true for most modern gas engines: the only real performance improvement is from more spark, which requires better fuel.
 
Great info quik!

Would this tuner override the knock sensor or would it retard the timing yet?
 
I would say that you would need a wideband O2 before you start screwing with things like that..

bingo! We have a winner. When tuning the first thing you have to do is get your A/F ratio where you want it before you begin messing with timing.
 

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