Rich exhaust/over acceleration

[Lincolnlov]

Wonder if any of you other "lincolnlovers" out there may have experienced a similar problem -- and hopefully have a solution.
After cold (below freezing) startups, my 03 Premium Sport smells like its running very rich. Even after the idle speed drops to around 750-800 rpm the car does not accelerate smoothly. It seems to surge, i.e it wants to over accelerate. After a short period of driving (4-6 minutes) the acceleration returns to normal. Highway mileage is 23-25 mpg. The car has just over 5000 miles on it. Asked local dealer if there was the equivalent of a choke adjustment on these fuel injected motors that might resolve the issue and was told no. No other help was offered. Hope I don't have to continue to live with that. My Mark VII with over 140,000k is smoother on cold start-ups and behaves with better manners than the LS.

 

[kleetus]

Might be a sensor with a bad connection... once it warms up, you say it behaves normally? If you had someone who could hook it up to the scanner and go for a ride you could see what the left and right side of the engine is doing, and maybe get a better idea of the root cause of it.

 

[eL eS]

it might clear up when winter passes. I think a lot of owners have experienced the no start in cold climate and I think it is becasue the air/fuel ratio is too rich.

I do not think there is any way to correct it. I think the air/fuel map for cold start is at position zero and it by default has no air/fuel mapping. I bet it will clear up once warmer weather comes. your way.

 

[Lincolnlov]

Rich Exhaust

Might be a sensor with a bad connection... once it warms up, you say it behaves normally? If you had someone who could hook it up to the scanner and go for a ride you could see what the left and right side of the engine is doing, and maybe get a better idea of the root cause of it.

Kleetus,
Appreciate you reply. Wonder if I should check my local LM dealer for the hook up you spoke of?? In my neighborhood I'm the only person who changes oil etc. ( we are all old fogies) so I don't know anyone with the proper electronic equipment to read sensors. Been loving the car with the exception of that problem. Thanks.

 

[Lincolnlov]

Rich exhaust

it might clear up when winter passes. I think a lot of owners have experienced the no start in cold climate and I think it is becasue the air/fuel ratio is too rich.

I do not think there is any way to correct it. I think the air/fuel map for cold start is at position zero and it by default has no air/fuel mapping. I bet it will clear up once warmer weather comes. your way.

eL eS
Thanks for your input (or in pirate talk that would be putin)!
Starting has not been a problem but I was afraid someone would tell me that there isn't a solution to the cold weather rich start/run situation. Your comment sort of confirms what the dealer implied but was careful to avoid saying directly. My son tells me that Ford uses the mass airflow sensor to direct the computer till the Oxygen sensors are warm enough to feed signals to the computer. Makes sense but doesn't solve the problem. If you hear anything more please post. Love my LS but I'm sure glad I kept my Mark VII.

 

[eL eS]

Ahoy lincolnlov,

I am studying fuel systems now from and ASE book I checked out from the library and I just procured a copy of the shop manuals. I noticed the same problem when I went north to visit my family. Car was hard to start and stunk of fuel after it turned over.

The bad thing is that if the car runs rich to long it will damage the cats. I'll let ya know if I find anything to may help.

 

[kleetus]

I can't believe this is that wide spread a problem... I've lived in Pittsburgh all my life with all sorts of fuel injected engines... none of them did this. I only had one car do it in the summer, and that's when I lost an O2 sensor on my mom's 84 Grand Marquis.

My LS doesn't do this at all.. I can leave it out or leave it in the garage, heck even at our fire station when I came back from a call at 9 degrees out it started right up. I knew it was cold, and everything was stiff, even the steering was a bit tight. Naw... I think there's something else at play here... It's just what...

I don't know if yout LM dealer would let you drive around with a scanner. I had a friend who had one, and that's how I learned about it. All you gotta do is ask. I would think that a decent private garage would have one.

 

[eL eS]

I have a pc based scan tool that records. Problem is during engine start up the car runs high any way till the O2s warm and and trim the fuel properly. So until the O2s heat it is hard to get any accurate readings.

 

[MikeB]

I have a pc based scan tool that records. Problem is during engine start up the car runs high any way till the O2s warm and and trim the fuel properly. So until the O2s heat it is hard to get any accurate readings.

Where did you get that tool and how much was it?

 

[Lincolnlov]

Rich run

Ahoy lincolnlov,

I am studying fuel systems now from and ASE book I checked out from the library and I just procured a copy of the shop manuals. I noticed the same problem when I went north to visit my family. Car was hard to start and stunk of fuel after it turned over.

The bad thing is that if the car runs rich to long it will damage the cats. I'll let ya know if I find anything to may help.

eL eS
Thanks again for your input. My car doesn't run like that for long ( 4-6 min. even when its in the teens) so I hope that the cats won't be a problem. Looking forward to any further news. Lincolnlov

 

[Lincolnlov]

I can't believe this is that wide spread a problem... I've lived in Pittsburgh all my life with all sorts of fuel injected engines... none of them did this. I only had one car do it in the summer, and that's when I lost an O2 sensor on my mom's 84 Grand Marquis.

My LS doesn't do this at all.. I can leave it out or leave it in the garage, heck even at our fire station when I came back from a call at 9 degrees out it started right up. I knew it was cold, and everything was stiff, even the steering was a bit tight. Naw... I think there's something else at play here... It's just what...

I don't know if yout LM dealer would let you drive around with a scanner. I had a friend who had one, and that's how I learned about it. All you gotta do is ask. I would think that a decent private garage would have one.

Kleetus,
Thanks for your additional input. Can appreciate the cold in Pa. I too was from the Western Pa. area but moved away more than 45 years ago. I'll be waiting to hear from youns guys if you hear any more about LS's with a problem like mine. Guess you saw the posting from eL eS. I'm begining to think that it may be an oversight by the fuel map programmers. Now for a solution cause I'd prefer not to have to live with it. Regards, Lincolnlov

 

[eL eS]

Where did you get that tool and how much was it?

I have autoenginuity.com scan tool. Bought it on ebay for about 150 dollars and I recently added the ford extended code set. It also includes several PCM self test. It has worked great and the support from the softwares creator is fantastic.

This tool has really opened my eyes to engine management. The ability to record realtime data and play it back has helped a lot. I have been able to diagnose my own engine misfires down to the cylinder. It has paid for itself just in the 6 months or so I have owned the software.

 

[eL eS]

Kleetus,
Thanks for your additional input. Can appreciate the cold in Pa. I too was from the Western Pa. area but moved away more than 45 years ago. I'll be waiting to hear from youns guys if you hear any more about LS's with a problem like mine. Guess you saw the posting from eL eS. I'm begining to think that it may be an oversight by the fuel map programmers. Now for a solution cause I'd prefer not to have to live with it. Regards, Lincolnlov

custom pcm tuning can clean up a lot of the factorys blank spots. from what i have read most OEm engine management systems use a 2D map and that aftermarket programmers use 3D mapping. I do not know if this is the case with the LSs pcm, being 2D, and the sctflasher, being 3D. The 3rd dem is usually engine load data

Maybe Quik LS can add somehting to this as he has been using sct custom tunes for his LS.

 

[kleetus]

Wow... adding a third dimension to the map is pretty neat. But how can you do that? Doesn't the PCM have to have that ability in the program itself to look for 3 variables instead of 2? I'm not being sarcastic, I've done some programing myself, but no engine managment. It does do a realtime calc of the conditions and then decide how much fuel to squirt in, right? Unless you add code to the program, or at least rewrite it, it's still going to point or look to the same place on the table. This is some cool stuff that I've always been interested in.

Lincolnlov... Yinz guys moved daun ner n'nat 45 years ago? That's all screwy... you can't be eatin' at Permanti's then, huh jag? (I'll translate Pittsburgh to English for anyone who's interested...) What part of the 'burg are you from?

 

[eL eS]

Wow... adding a third dimension to the map is pretty neat. But how can you do that? Doesn't the PCM have to have that ability in the program itself to look for 3 variables instead of 2? I'm not being sarcastic, I've done some programing myself, but no engine managment. It does do a realtime calc of the conditions and then decide how much fuel to squirt in, right? Unless you add code to the program, or at least rewrite it, it's still going to point or look to the same place on the table. This is some cool stuff that I've always been interested in.

Lincolnlov... Yinz guys moved daun ner n'nat 45 years ago? That's all screwy... you can't be eatin' at Permanti's then, huh jag? (I'll translate Pittsburgh to English for anyone who's interested...) What part of the 'burg are you from?

i am trying to find the thread that quik ls postrd the application they use for the tuning. i want to follow up on that application. the 3D mapping is something new to me an dhave read about it on websites that sell engine mgmt services or software that caters to that market.

I would like to know if our pcm has the addressable memory space in eeprom to do this type of work.

 

[Quik LS]

I would like to know if our pcm has the addressable memory space in eeprom to do this type of work.

nope - our pcm is based on the Ford next generation PCM using the Black Oak processor. the code is 100% compiled, including the data tables. This is why is it so hard to adjust - you can't simple poke new values into a table - since the value are in different spots for every PCM version. to change the table, you have to reverse engineer the PCM code, make the changes, re-compile it, and then upload the new code over the old.

the SCT XCalibrator downloads a copy of your current PCM code, then uploads a new 'tuned' version over top of it. The tuned version is created by a SCT dealer that understands engine tuning - and usually put your car on a dyno with a wideband and makes it perfect.

you can purchase a copy of the SCT dealer software - limited to a single car - it's called the Pro Racer Package - Torrie at www.fordpartsnetwork.com can sell that now. I believe it's $499. You can also purchase the SCT tuning manual for $75.

I've been running different tunes since november. removed the rev limiter, changed the shift points, increased shift firmness in SST, and of course increased performance (19rwhp).

 

[Lincolnlov]

Rich exhaust

Wow... adding a third dimension to the map is pretty neat. But how can you do that? Doesn't the PCM have to have that ability in the program itself to look for 3 variables instead of 2? I'm not being sarcastic, I've done some programing myself, but no engine managment. It does do a realtime calc of the conditions and then decide how much fuel to squirt in, right? Unless you add code to the program, or at least rewrite it, it's still going to point or look to the same place on the table. This is some cool stuff that I've always been interested in.

Lincolnlov... Yinz guys moved daun ner n'nat 45 years ago? That's all screwy... you can't be eatin' at Permanti's then, huh jag? (I'll translate Pittsburgh to English for anyone who's interested...) What part of the 'burg are you from?

Kleetus --- Yep, we left Gibsonia for Va. and now we have no pop (its soda here) and no chipchop ham (its pressed ham here) even if were goin daun taun to git it. No Stlers neither -- only the Dead Skins!
Did find something interesting in the library. Mitchell says that the mass flow meter for the 3.9 has a heated air temperature sensor that (along with other sensors like a fuel temperature sensor) are said to control the length of time that the injectors are open. My emissions test Feb. 8 reads 0 ppm HC at both 15 and 25 mph. The NO ppm registered 7 at 15mph and 11 at 25mph. Gotta find me a real gearhead to talk to around here that might know about those sensors. But few folks around here work on their wheels. Too busy in the rat race. Yinz guys stay cool.
Regards, Lincolnlov

 

[eL eS]

Kleetus --- Yep, we left Gibsonia for Va. and now we have no pop (its soda here) and no chipchop ham (its pressed ham here) even if were goin daun taun to git it. No Stlers neither -- only the Dead Skins!
Did find something interesting in the library. Mitchell says that the mass flow meter for the 3.9 has a heated air temperature sensor that (along with other sensors like a fuel temperature sensor) are said to control the length of time that the injectors are open. My emissions test Feb. 8 reads 0 ppm HC at both 15 and 25 mph. The NO ppm registered 7 at 15mph and 11 at 25mph. Gotta find me a real gearhead to talk to around here that might know about those sensors. But few folks around here work on their wheels. Too busy in the rat race. Yinz guys stay cool.
Regards, Lincolnlov

go to www.flatratetech.com

basically you have no hydrocarbon emissions registering in parts per million. Sounds like a perfect system

 

[kleetus]

Kleetus --- Yep, we left Gibsonia for Va. and now we have no pop (its soda here) and no chipchop ham (its pressed ham here) even if were goin daun taun to git it. No Stlers neither -- only the Dead Skins!
Did find something interesting in the library. Mitchell says that the mass flow meter for the 3.9 has a heated air temperature sensor that (along with other sensors like a fuel temperature sensor) are said to control the length of time that the injectors are open. My emissions test Feb. 8 reads 0 ppm HC at both 15 and 25 mph. The NO ppm registered 7 at 15mph and 11 at 25mph. Gotta find me a real gearhead to talk to around here that might know about those sensors. But few folks around here work on their wheels. Too busy in the rat race. Yinz guys stay cool.
Regards, Lincolnlov

No Kidding? I used to live in Hampton, and now I live in Butler... Small world. From the numbers you're posting, that does sound pretty clean. What does it smell like anyway, gas or rotten eggs? It's hard to say what's in the MAF, but normally there's a standard referece, then the measured output that I beleive feed back as part of a wheatstone bridge. There is also be an intake air temperature sensor as well, which is a separate unit, just downstream. It might be possible that the MAF is contaminated, but just slightly. I had a bad one for 3 years and never knew it until it really fell out of calibration. You could take it out and look at it. If you see any, and I mean ANY dirt or traces of something wet that may have gone through the sensor and left a track, you could be getting strange results. When mine went out, it went lean. Something to think about.

 

[Lincolnlov]

go to www.flatratetech.com

basically you have no hydrocarbon emissions registering in parts per million. Sounds like a perfect system

eL eS
Yeah, sounds good doesn't it. But that was of course tested after a 20 minute warm up. Last test on my Mark VII was pretty low too -- but not that low. We have to do them ever two years in order to get plates in Va, Safety inspection every year. Regards, Linconlov

 

[Lincolnlov]

No Kidding? I used to live in Hampton, and now I live in Butler... Small world. From the numbers you're posting, that does sound pretty clean. What does it smell like anyway, gas or rotten eggs? It's hard to say what's in the MAF, but normally there's a standard referece, then the measured output that I beleive feed back as part of a wheatstone bridge. There is also be an intake air temperature sensor as well, which is a separate unit, just downstream. It might be possible that the MAF is contaminated, but just slightly. I had a bad one for 3 years and never knew it until it really fell out of calibration. You could take it out and look at it. If you see any, and I mean ANY dirt or traces of something wet that may have gone through the sensor and left a track, you could be getting strange results. When mine went out, it went lean. Something to think about.

Kleetus, Butler, now there is a nice place. At least that is how I remember it. Havn't been there in a while. Used to pass by on 422 on the way to "RD Slippery Rock" (folks lived near Morane Lake in their final years). Now I only go as far as N. Apollo to visit family.
Re the smell -- very rich of unburnt gasoline. Nothing like SO2. Thanks for your thoughts. I'll have a look at the MAF sensor. Any thoughts on what I should use to clean it if I spot some dirt. Don't want to screw it up. Recently cleaned my throtle body and and ran some expensive injector cleaner through my Mark VII. Runs smoooother and has a bit more power -- but my mileage around the burbs dropped from around 17 to 14.5 mpg. Not sure I'm happy with the tradeoff. Regards, Lincolnlov

 

[eL eS]

I used electrical contact cleaner. It leaves no residue. I would not attempt to reach at it wilth a swab as you could end up breaking the filament. Check Radio Shack for the cleaner my an auto store will carry it as well.

 

[Lincolnlov]

I used electrical contact cleaner. It leaves no residue. I would not attempt to reach at it wilth a swab as you could end up breaking the filament. Check Radio Shack for the cleaner my an auto store will carry it as well.

eL eS Thanks for your input on this issue. Saw you were on the flat rate site and I guess that I now don't need a GPS to find you. Best regards, Lincolnlov

 

[eL eS]

yeah I pop all over the place. Trying to lean and help as I go. I have earned a lot of stipes with this car. You can find me on automotiveforums and lincolnsonline both are .com. Some of the same folks from here participate in the others and some good folks there that don't use this board.

If you have a GPS just pop in the lat and lon coordinates under my avatar and you will know where to find me.

I should probably clean mine... it has been a while and I started using my K&N Filter again becasue I was too lazy to stop for a new one.

You may also want to verify that your air temp sensor is oriented properly. It can get turned and it has a hard plastic cover to protect. There is a little hole in the middle to allow air to pass through.

I would think if it is rotated so that air does not pass well that the pcm wont get a proper air temp reading.

 

[Lincolnlov]

yeah I pop all over the place. Trying to lean and help as I go. I have earned a lot of stipes with this car. You can find me on automotiveforums and lincolnsonline both are .com. Some of the same folks from here participate in the others and some good folks there that don't use this board.

If you have a GPS just pop in the lat and lon coordinates under my avatar and you will know where to find me.

I should probably clean mine... it has been a while and I started using my K&N Filter again becasue I was too lazy to stop for a new one.

You may also want to verify that your air temp sensor is oriented properly. It can get turned and it has a hard plastic cover to protect. There is a little hole in the middle to allow air to pass through.

I would think if it is rotated so that air does not pass well that the pcm wont get a proper air temp reading.

eL eS Thanks again for the tip(s) I'll be giving it a try. If it works I'll be finding the car just about perfect for me. Regards, Lincolnlov