PATS problem or glitch maybe?

Lincoln LS

  1. LunaEros

    LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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    Anyone have any ideas for me? I have a Gen 1 02 LS v8 with 147K on it.
    Monday I went to work and I come out 4½ hours later at lunch as I usually do to move my car up front. I disable the alarm with the remote and notice the taillights flashed but the front turns didn't. Try to open the door but it's not unlocked. Press it again and the other three open but the driver's still didn't. Put the key in to start it and nothing. No starter no click no nothing. The alarm light is flashing like crazy and finally stopped but didn't see any codes. Disconnect the blade switch on the battery for about 5 minutes and tried again. Nothing. Got furious, disconnected battery again and went inside. Come back out about 20 or so minutes later, connected it and it started normal. Moved car and finished work. After work it starts fine too. Got home, parked, turned it off and try again and it starts. Next day I go out to get mail and try again to make sure it's still starting and it is. So go out to go to work in afternoon and it still starts fine. Get to work and go in. Come out at lunch to move it and again it's not starting. Disconnect battery for about half hour to 45 minutes and go out and try again and no start. By this time I'm livid because I'll have no way to get the car home if I can't get it started. Disconnect battery and finish work. After work I cross fingers, connect battery and it starts. Started again when I got home and twice this morning. I'm not getting any codes on the PATS light (Edit: It's doing it again and now I do see PATS codes which appear to be 11. Also notice when it's doing this the message center says "Check Front Turn Lamps"). I started Forscan and cleared all the codes since disconnecting the battery seems to set off every code it has with the modules and rescan. I have a few codes still but none that have any relation to the PATS system or cluster. But I tried to run the instrument cluster test and it wouldn't finish. I forget if it said failed or interrupted.
    Am I just getting a glitch with the PATS since I know the electronics in these are known to get glitchy as they get old. Or is my cluster starting to fail? I sure as shit hope not.
    Is there some other easier way to reset the PATS without having to disconnect the battery?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  2. joegr

    joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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    PATS and the perimeter alarm and locks are separate systems that don't interact. You may have some problem with the circuit(s) that power these. You might start with the SSP relays in the trunk.
    PATS lamp flash code 11 indicates a problem with the transponder coil, or the connections to it from the PATS module in the cluster. Of course, you should also try another key on the off chance that the chip in your key is failing.

    There's no "reset" for PATS. It's likely that you would have had the same results after waiting and trying again if you never disconnected the battery. The exception to this is that opening and shutting the trunk may have jarred a bad SSP relay or other electrical connection in the trunk distribution box.
     
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    • LunaEros

      LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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      SSP relay? Ok. I see in the electrical diagram manual there are 4 SSP relays in the battery junction box which I presume is in the trunk. Is it a particular one of those. And is thre one I can just swap with it to see if that's what it is?
      Thanks for helping, Joe.
       
    • joegr

      joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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      Sorry, I don't have the gen I wiring diagrams with me right now. Maybe swap 1 with 2, and 3 with 4, and see if the problem changes? Just unplugging and re-plugging them may resolve it for a while.
       
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      • LunaEros

        LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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        Ok. Tried switching them around but nothing changed. Tried the other key too to no avail. Do you know where I can find the transponder coil if that's what it is?
         
      • LunaEros

        LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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        Did you referred to the perimeter alarm because I mention that the front turn signals didn't flash when I disarmed it and it wouldn't start?
        I mentioned that because when it did work after the front lights did flash when I disarmed it.

        Is this the transponder coil, Joe?
        2000-2007 Ford Ignition Immobilizer Module XW4Z-15607-AA | TascaParts.com
         
      • joegr

        joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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        • LunaEros

          LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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          Well the only tools I have access to are the shop manuals and Forscan Lite (Which isn't showing anything specific to the PATS). And the code 11 you say is the transponder coil, right?
           
        • joegr

          joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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          Specifically, it is the PATS module failing to receive from the transponder coil. This could be the coil itself, local interference, bad key chip (maybe), wiring between the coil and the PATS module, or failure inside the PATS module itself.
           
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          • LunaEros

            LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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            I tried the other key and it still does it. How far away can it read the key from? I assume it can only read it if it's right next to it in the ignition.
            If so then maybe it's not that because disarming the system acts different depending on if it's giving me problems or not. If it is then the front lights don't flash and the driver's door doesn't unlock (using the remote). If it's working right they do. I'm not sure how to test any farther. I traced the SSPs and found it appears to be SSP one that feeds into the PATS transceiver. I happen to have a bunch of the same relays so I tried replacing it and doesn't fix it. I noticed in an old thread one guy found where he had a similar problem that his turned out to be from the PCM diode in the underhood junction block had worked it's way loose so I checked mine and it appears fine. Not sure how to proceed exactly since I don't have any diagnostic tools other than the OBDII MX and Forscan and no money to bring it somewhere. Maybe I should try getting in the dash to disconnect and reconnect the transponder coil?

            If it is that coil and I get a new one when I can, it doesn't have to be programmed, does it? I was googling about that and it seems like it would need to be but none of what I found seemed to be specific about the coil. Isn't the coding stored in the PATS on the cluster?
            I'm so damn discouraged. :(
             
          • joegr

            joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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            No, no programming for the coil.
            If it goes with what should be unrelated symptoms, then it probably is not that coil.
            Looking at the 2nd gen diagrams (don't know how much is different on the 1st gen), the power for the coil/transceiver comes from the same SSP circuit that powers the front lights. The coil/transceiver also shares a ground with a lot of stuff in the dash. However, the FEM doesn't seem to be one of them. The FEM is what controls the front lights (among other things).
            I would want to measure for battery voltage at fuse 24 in the cabin fuse box when it is refusing to start.
             
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            • LunaEros

              LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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              It's getting dark but I'll see if I can check that. I'm probably gonna have to find some way to get to work for the time being. Looks like this ain't gonna be fixed quickly.

              These are all the codes I'm getting from Forscan while it's disabled and won't start.

              Code: U1262 - SCP Data Link Fault
              Code: B1681 - PATS transceiver fault.
              Code: B1499 - Lamp Turn Signal Left Circuit Failure.
              Code: B1503 - Lamp Turn Signal Right Circuit Failure.
              Code: B1567 - High-Beam Circuit Failure
              Code: B1794 - Open Power Circuit or Shorted Power Circuit
              Code: B2320 - Driver Mirror Horizontal Position Sensor circuit failure
              Code: C1286 - Booster Pedal Force Switch Circuit Failure
              Code: P1000 - On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) Systems Readiness Test Not Complete
              Code: B1869 - Lamp Air Bag Warning Indicator circuit failure
              Code: C1284 - Oil Pressure Switch Failure
               
            • LunaEros

              LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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              Also does the perimeter and PATS go through the CANBUS on the Gen2s? Because I don't think Gen1s have a CANBUS.
               
            • joegr

              joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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              The 1st gen has data buses too, it just isn't the CAN protocol.
              In both gens, the PATS module talks to the PCM via a data bus, and the FEM, REM, DDR, and so on get together via a bus for the perimeter function.
               
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              • LunaEros

                LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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                .05v
                 
              • joegr

                joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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                You have your answer then.
                Bad connection on that SSP circuit
                Bad SSP relay or relay socket.
                SSP relay not being driven by REM (bad wiring or bad REM).
                ...
                 
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                • LunaEros

                  LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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                  Come to think of it, this past Saturday a neighbor asked to use my 4-way and I keep it under the spare. This didn't start happening until Monday night. I guess I must've inadvertently done something by accident. I don't remember bumping or hitting any of the wires or junction blocks or battery but maybe I did.
                  I did try to replace that SSP1 relay which is what feeds the PATS earlier today but it didn't fix it. Maybe I should try replacing all 5 of those relays. I guess I'll have to wiggle all the wires and connectors and check voltages if what's wrong isn't obvious when I look real close at everything back there. (sigh) I'm getting to old for this.
                   
                • LunaEros

                  LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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                  Ok. The SSP is driven by the REM? Because it looks like the coils in all 4 relays are spliced together and getting their ground from the REM AND FEM. I checked the negative side of the relay's coil, pin 85 and it's got ground connection which is supposed to be coming from both modules. And since I'm getting power to things that the REM supplies I'm thinking the FEM went bad.
                  This isn't really my forte and I'm pressed since this is my only transpo but that's what I'm getting from looking at the wiring diagrams.
                  Also tested every single relay in the battery junction with a new relay and none of them made it work. I also checked every one of the fuses in it and the diode and they're all good.
                  I also tried jumping SSP1 pins 30 to 87 which is where fuse 24 at the interior fuse block gets it's power and the system still didn't work.
                   
                  Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
                • joegr

                  joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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                  Well, that rules out the relay and the modules that drive it (REM and FEM). The fault has to be the connectors or wiring between terminal 87 of SSP1 and that particular bus bar of the cabin fuse box. (I assume that when you say the system didn't work, there was still no power on fuse 24.) The wire from the relay comes into the cabin fuse box via pin 17 of C270d.
                   
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                  • LunaEros

                    LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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                    No. I meant the perimeter and PATS systems. I'll go back out and do it again and check 24 again. Back in a few.
                     
                  • LunaEros

                    LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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                    Ok. Nope. Didn't change the voltage on fuse 24. In fact it reads .o1v now.
                     
                  • joegr

                    joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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                    On the 2nd gen wiring diagrams, that just leaves you one wire with one connector at each end, the relay socket and the cabin fuse box connector.
                     
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                    • LunaEros

                      LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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                      Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You are a life saver. That's a huge connector. But I pulled it off and checked pin 17 (which for some reason they don't have the actual plug numbered).
                      Got 12v. Next I connected the continuity checker to the pin 17 connects to to see if there was continuity between it and fuse 24. There was. So I put C270 back on and checked the fuse again. 12v!!!!! Cross my fingers close the car up and try the alarm remote. The front lights flashed. Got in to try and start it and VOILA!! It started! I do have a slight leak in heavier rain that kinda flows down the right pillar of the windshield. Maybe the moisture that got in the car made 270s connection foul up. But it seems to be working and now I know where to look first if it happens again. Thank you so much for helping me, Joe!!
                       
                    • joegr

                      joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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                      No problem. I suggest that you check your moon roof drain hoses. They have
                      a tendency to shrink and pull loose from the moonroof connectors, particularly the front two.
                       
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                      • LunaEros

                        LunaEros Well-Known LVC Member

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                        Thanks. I'll do that. Have a good day, bud! :)
                         

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