New Concept Camaro

mespock

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Well Ford Started with the great success of the Mustang and Dodge taunting us with a new Challenger that may or may not make it to sales. Looks like GM wants to do the same with the camaro.

But then there's the flop of Pontiac's GTO and Dodge's Charger.

comaro.jpg
 

bufordtpisser

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Love the new old cars

I personally love all of the new, old cars. When you mix classic old looks with modern technology, you get the best of both worlds.
 

Jibit

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ford has a corner on the market. All the new concepts will have a problem catching up to the performance of the mustang when they come out. Stupid things like putting the 327 in the Camaro and not the 6L engine (like the GTO) will keep Chevy and Dodge/Chrysler in 2nd place. Besides that, the aftermarket for the mustang is ridiculous! I think one of Chevy and Dodge/Chrysler's problem is that they have nothing when it come to aftermarket parts. People may argue that its not thier fault but think about this; how was there aftermarket parts for the mustang immediately after the mustang came out? The manufacturer has a big influence on this by "donating" cars and revealing specs and other particulars about the car. I think this may be one of the few things that ford does right! :blah: :soapbox:
 

CpeVillStr90

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ford has a corner on the market. All the new concepts will have a problem catching up to the performance of the mustang when they come out. Stupid things like putting the 327 in the Camaro and not the 6L engine (like the GTO) will keep Chevy and Dodge/Chrysler in 2nd place. Besides that, the aftermarket for the mustang is ridiculous! I think one of Chevy and Dodge/Chrysler's problem is that they have nothing when it come to aftermarket parts. People may argue that its not thier fault but think about this; how was there aftermarket parts for the mustang immediately after the mustang came out? The manufacturer has a big influence on this by "donating" cars and revealing specs and other particulars about the car. I think this may be one of the few things that ford does right!

If the Camaro does reach production,I would imagine that it would have the LS6 or LS7.Two engines which have such a huge variety of aftermarket parts and that are balls to the wall right out of the box.Which is where Ford screwed up.They do all this engineering making the car bueatiful(the only nice Ford) and retro(great idea) yet drop an underpowered engine in it.My buddies 1994 Camaro Z28 is stock and according to stock specs,the Camaro is a tenth of a second faster in 0-60.Now 5.2 is fast,but the Charger SRT-8(FOUR door) and GTO are both under 5 seconds.The Mustang has always been underpowered in my opinion.The 2002 Trans Am WS6 had 325HP of the line.Yet alone the Blackbird Trans Am the had 350HP.Like I said,if the Camaro does hit the market,it will have a LS6,which is easy and fairly inexpensive to modify.The car looks good.Though with the sunken grill Id like to see some hideaway headlights like the old 68's.But it looks great.I'll take one of those over a Mustang or Challenger concept anyday.
 

Filthy Sanchez

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Ford paved the way, and that pretty much forced GM and Chrysler to follow, the winner is the consumer.
 
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scott9050

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CpeVillStr90 said:
If the Camaro does reach production,I would imagine that it would have the LS6 or LS7.Two engines which have such a huge variety of aftermarket parts and that are balls to the wall right out of the box.Which is where Ford screwed up.They do all this engineering making the car bueatiful(the only nice Ford) and retro(great idea) yet drop an underpowered engine in it.My buddies 1994 Camaro Z28 is stock and according to stock specs,the Camaro is a tenth of a second faster in 0-60.Now 5.2 is fast,but the Charger SRT-8(FOUR door) and GTO are both under 5 seconds.The Mustang has always been underpowered in my opinion.The 2002 Trans Am WS6 had 325HP of the line.Yet alone the Blackbird Trans Am the had 350HP.Like I said,if the Camaro does hit the market,it will have a LS6,which is easy and fairly inexpensive to modify.The car looks good.Though with the sunken grill Id like to see some hideaway headlights like the old 68's.But it looks great.I'll take one of those over a Mustang or Challenger concept anyday.

The GT is just the entry V-8, with the GT500 being the top of the line and another mid range V-8 being in there soon. There is nothing screwed up about it, it's all about selling cars, a fight Ford has won in the past and should continue to win. The 4th gen proved that consumers wanted more than just high horsepower. With 475 horsepower on tap and rumors that it could get bumped to a GT spec 550 should the need arise, they have nothing to worry about with the Shelby.
 
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scott9050

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taylor414ce2003 said:
the after- market industry makes parts for FORDs because they know they will break down :rolleyes:


Sure, that explains the multiple superchargers (I didn't know a GT had this from the factory:rolleyes: ), gears, cams, tuners etc that were out for the car when it came out. Ford works with aftermarket manufacturers to develop their products because they know that there are plenty of people out there who want to mod their cars, to make it their own. With just a reprogram for 91 octane and to eliminate the torque management these cars are picking up 25 rwhp and running 106-107 traps with nothing else in average conditions.
 

CpeVillStr90

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The GT is just the entry V-8, with the GT500 being the top of the line and another mid range V-8 being in there soon. There is nothing screwed up about it, it's all about selling cars, a fight Ford has won in the past and should continue to win. The 4th gen proved that consumers wanted more than just high horsepower. With 475 horsepower on tap and rumors that it could get bumped to a GT spec 550 should the need arise, they have nothing to worry about with the Shelby.

Yes but the top Ford Mustang that the average fast car consumer can afford only has 300 horsepower when a GTO has 400 for not much more cash.Plus theres more aftermarket parts for the LS2 then Ford's 4.6L.Give me a GTO anyday.Ford's entry V8 can't touch Pontiac's entry V8.Though Pontiac does need a high perfomance version of the GTO.Sort of like the GT-500 coming out.But then again Chevy has that segment wrapped up with the new Z06.Even the Viper SRT-10 can't touch that.And the $150K Ford GT only has the Z06 beaten by a very tiny,tiny margin.With some slight tuning to Z06 though that would change.Give me a Z06 for half the price of a GT anyday too.
 
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scott9050

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CpeVillStr90 said:
Yes but the top Ford Mustang that the average fast car consumer can afford only has 300 horsepower when a GTO has 400 for not much more cash.
There is quite a bit of difference in price between $25,000 for the GT and $32,000 for the GTO.
Plus theres more aftermarket parts for the LS2 then Ford's 4.6L.

I seriously doubt it, the Mustang is the most supported platform of any car made, that includes Hondas, GM vehicles etc. The aftermarket put out about a half dozen superchargers for example before the car was even released.
Give me a GTO anyday.Ford's entry V8 can't touch Pontiac's entry V8.Though Pontiac does need a high perfomance version of the GTO.

Sales show that more people prefer the the Mustang. The GTO is blandly styled and there is only one engine option for the GTO, there are going to be at least 3 V-8's for the Mustang before all is said and done. That choice adds up to sales.

Sort of like the GT-500 coming out.But then again Chevy has that segment wrapped up with the new Z06.
The GT500 costs $30,000 less than the Z06, they are not in the same market segment. The GT500 is simply the most powerful pony car that there is.

Even the Viper SRT-10 can't touch that.And the $150K Ford GT only has the Z06 beaten by a very tiny,tiny margin.With some slight tuning to Z06 though that would change.Give me a Z06 for half the price of a GT anyday too.

The GT has exclucivity while the Z06 to the untrained eye looks like every other Corvette. The GT 500 has run multiple 131 mph traps with a best of 133, the Z06 has run a best of 127. How is that close? And as far as mods go, the Z06 can not compete with the easiness of mods to the supercharged 5.4, a simple pulley can gain 40+ hp.
 

CpeVillStr90

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There is quite a bit of difference in price between $25,000 for the GT and $32,000 for the GTO.

Base price of the GTO is $31,990,Mustang,26,320.About 5 grand.When your getting into the upper $20,000 range,5 grand is not that much when your spending that kind of money to begin with.

I seriously doubt it, the Mustang is the most supported platform of any car made, that includes Hondas, GM vehicles etc. The aftermarket put out about a half dozen superchargers for example before the car was even released.

...the Mustang is the most supported platform of any car made...

Proof of this?I seriously doubt that theres more aftermarket parts for a Mustang than anyother car.The aftermarket part range for the LS engine series is so vast.Especially since the engines have been around for so long and a lot of them share parts.And plus what your goin to spend to get the Mustang into GTO HP range,your better off spending the extra 5 grand.The engine that is in the Mustang has been around for a long time.Not much has changed with the 4.6 in the past 10 years.Thats why you have so many aftermarket parts before the new Mustang.

Sales show that more people prefer the the Mustang. The GTO is blandly styled and there is only one engine option for the GTO, there are going to be at least 3 V-8's for the Mustang before all is said and done. That choice adds up to sales.

I will agree on the styling issue.No thought went into the GTO's styling.It was rushed into production.All it is is a Holden Monaro with an LS2.Wait for the new GTO,I think you'll be impressed.But Im more about the balls of of a muscle car then the styling.When it comes to styling,its easy,I have three Cadillacs that suit styling needs perfectly.As well as a Northstar that fits my needs also.But if Im going to buy a muscle car,the last thing Im concerned is styling.Rather its the performance of the muscle car.The GTO may be bland but it still looks good and muscular.As far as the engine options go,I wouldn't be caught in a "V6 muscle car".There shouldn't be such a thing.Three V8's is nice though.And Im not going to base what car I buy on what the guy down the street owns.Sales doesn't effect my decision.

The GT500 costs $30,000 less than the Z06, they are not in the same market segment. The GT500 is simply the most powerful pony car that there is.

Other than price how aren't they in the same market segment?

The GT has exclucivity while the Z06 to the untrained eye looks like every other Corvette. The GT 500 has run multiple 131 mph traps with a best of 133, the Z06 has run a best of 127. How is that close? And as far as mods go, the Z06 can not compete with the easiness of mods to the supercharged 5.4, a simple pulley can gain 40+ hp.

The GT is just about exactly the same as the old one.If you can't tell a C6 from a C5 then you need glasses.They don't look alike.The Z06 can't compete?Are you kidding?Like I said,all the engines of the LS series are so similar.Theres tons of mods.Not to mention,the Z06 is still half the price.you can spend 5 grand on mods for a Z06,beable to eat the GT and still be nearly half the price of the GT.The Z06 is nearly as quick as the GT for half the price.
 

5.7sbc

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Well the Charger just isn't the same . . . from 2 to four doors . . . Dodge could have done sooo much more, it is there own fault. The GTO however is keeping the f-body alive and with new styling coming soon and possible a supercharger . . . watch out, it'll finally be returning to a true American muscle car. There is nothing bad to say about Big Blue, they finally got it, might makes right. Ford came back recently with style and power no doubting that. The GT is not a car it is a driving machine but I ain't no rockstar sooo unless I sell my soul for a charged 5.4 I'll neva get there. I can still dream of the Z06 and if the General doesn't supercharge it by then . . . I sure as hell will!
 
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scott9050

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CpeVillStr90 said:
Base price of the GTO is $31,990,Mustang,26,320.About 5 grand.When your getting into the upper $20,000 range,5 grand is not that much when your spending that kind of money to begin with.
With a simple reprogram the GT is as fast or faster than the GTO for less money. I have not seen an LS2 GTO run faster than 105-106 at the track. And 5-6 grand is a big difference to a lot of car buyers.

Proof of this?I seriously doubt that theres more aftermarket parts for a Mustang than anyother car.

There are about 8 different magazines devoted to the Mustang. Please show me another car that has this many. All you have to do is pick up a copy of MM&FF and check out the vendors and the parts available, or your Summit catalog. It is common knowlege that the Mustang aftermarket is second to none.

The aftermarket part range for the LS engine series is so vast.Especially since the engines have been around for so long and a lot of them share parts.And plus what your goin to spend to get the Mustang into GTO HP range,your better off spending the extra 5 grand.

Again, you don't need to match HP levels with the GTO to beat it, a simple change to a 91 octane tune and getting rid of torque management does it. Superchargers are only being used at 4 psi by Saleen to get that magical 400 hp level.

The engine that is in the Mustang has been around for a long time.Not much has changed with the 4.6 in the past 10 years.Thats why you have so many aftermarket parts before the new Mustang.

Actually a lot has changed, from the lo-po 215 hp mom and pop SOHC from 91-97 (Mustang 96-97), to PI heads and intake changes to the new 3 valve design. Then with the 4 valve cars there has been several changes in head design, blocks, cams etc over the years. The PI head desing has been pushed well into the low 8's in a full race car, the 4.6 well into the 6's. The aftermarket really does not need to come out with different head designs for them, and it would be expensive.

But if Im going to buy a muscle car,the last thing Im concerned is styling.Rather its the performance of the muscle car.The GTO may be bland but it still looks good and muscular.As far as the engine options go,I wouldn't be caught in a "V6 muscle car".There shouldn't be such a thing.Three V8's is nice though.And Im not going to base what car I buy on what the guy down the street owns.Sales doesn't effect my decision.

Lack of styling and day to day livability is what led to the demise of the 4th gens. The V-6's carry sales allowing the rest of us to have the V-8's.

Other than price how aren't they in the same market segment?

The Shelby has a backseat for one and a solid rear axle and is a Pony car. The bracket for the ZO6 includes the Viper and the GT. They are not even close to being in the same market segment. Dave Hill was aiming at these cars with the Z06, not the Shelby.

The GT is just about exactly the same as the old one.If you can't tell a C6 from a C5 then you need glasses.They don't look alike.

Like I said, the AVERAGE public. It would be like asking the general public to tell the the differences between an L-88 and a Tri power 427 (I've been a Corvette fan for about 25 years). I might know them immediatly, but the average public would not. The GT looks like nothing else on the road, and it gets noticed.

The Z06 can't compete?Are you kidding?Like I said,all the engines of the LS series are so similar.Theres tons of mods.Not to mention,the Z06 is still half the price.you can spend 5 grand on mods for a Z06,beable to eat the GT and still be nearly half the price of the GT.The Z06 is nearly as quick as the GT for half the price.
I never said it couldn't compete. This whole one upmanship thing can be done over and over again. I can take a Pinto, throw in a big block and a blower and rape a Z06. Point? Gains from mods obviously goes to the supercharged engine.
 

Filthy Sanchez

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GM's only failure with the GTO was lackluster styling. It looked like the rest of the Pontiac line-up U-G-L-Y and it ain't got no alaby. Other than that I love the car, GM styling has been terrible of late, and seriously a front drive V8 Impala that's actually slower than the previous supercharged V6? Oh yeah and it's ugly. I love Ford, GM, and Chrysler equally, let's be honest Ford can do better in the horspower category and GM really needs some new guys in design, why? Avalanche 'nuff said, actually new Caddies are ugly too. I think the GM brass said "Make it edgy" and the desingers took them literally. Though they still look better than anything from Nissan. The new Camaro goes against GM designs of late because it draws on the past and that's good (Thank god for J.Mays who started that). Chrysler has both Ford and and GM beat in the chassis department as niether Ford or GM have a solid rear-drive chassis with possible AWD capability. This scares me with Lincoln as they've broght forth the Zephyr and MKX both under $40,000 and based on FWD platforms, it won't work for a $40,000+ model even if it offers AWD. What's next a FWD Mazda based Bronco!? No serious off roader would buy that over a wrangler. The Mustang GT is an example of an solid car for a good price supported well by the aftermarket, look for the same from Chrysler and GM. The Z06 is a great car for the price and with money a factor I'd gladly purchase it, though with money not an option it's the GT40 hands down. The GTO has proven that more people buy a car for it's looks 1st, and that aftermarket is an important factor, as well Ford has always done a better job of making one car into many different things for different consumers. From base model V6 stangs to Cobras and much in between (Mach1, Bullitt, soon a Boss) in the past and planned soon for the future. GM didn't do that with the Fbody. As I said before we the consumers are the winners when it's all said and done with more options than before and Detroit headed the right way, let's hope they keep focused.
 

Nitrobasher

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lemme just go ahead and say eww... all of these new models even the new mustng are all just hideous...

and have you seen the new TA:confused: :( gross
 

Calabrio

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My mother just bought one of the new GT mustangs yesterday. I was a fan of the redesign, but I had my first opportunity to drive one yesterday.

I was blown away. Ford did an incredible job with this new car. Unlike past generations, which I've owned, the new one was very comfortable, had a very rigid chasis (even the convertible) and confidence inspiring breathtaking performance.

Great car. I'm now, honestly, considering buying a 2005 come the new year.
 

poniesviii

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I think the auto manufacturers need to be a bit less greedy, be a bit more fun, and have a bit more dignity.

V-6 mustangs... why?! *to sell* .. man who cares. Don't make them and people will buy the next best thing in the V-6 class. Result: a better, more respected sports car. When someone says 'mustang' the first thing that comes to my mind is "small penis; ignorant". I seem bitchy but the tail end of the new mustang and the fact that most mustang sales are in the V-6 model just wreck my enthusiasm. I get so bored with them in rush hour that I will NEVER buy one.

New camaro.... why not more agressive... *to provide to a wider variety of people* man what fun is that. Make the car kick ass not semi-kick ass, have something worth talking about when you're 80, build your addition off your kitchen NEXT year. The first drawings of the "2007 camaro" that highly resembles the actual current concept was in Hot Rod magazine in 1999 or 2000, and THAT car kicked ass.

The only thing I like is the new Hemi Charger. And I'm a big GM fan. Ford seems to have a bunch of nerds for engineers IMO. They have for years. Who needs cargo room in the rear of a mustang?! A: V-6 buyers. -- aka: chicks with kids. Buy a minivan, you're telling ford to make their mustang ugly and heavy with your purchase. Besides, your car looks like smashed ass, and everybody that's anybody is sick of it because of you.
 

95Marklll(Kingcobra)

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poniesviii said:
I think the auto manufacturers need to be a bit less greedy, be a bit more fun, and have a bit more dignity.

V-6 mustangs... why?! *to sell* .. man who cares. Don't make them and people will buy the next best thing in the V-6 class. Result: a better, more respected sports car. When someone says 'mustang' the first thing that comes to my mind is "small penis; ignorant". I seem bitchy but the tail end of the new mustang and the fact that most mustang sales are in the V-6 model just wreck my enthusiasm. I get so bored with them in rush hour that I will NEVER buy one.

New camaro.... why not more agressive... *to provide to a wider variety of people* man what fun is that. Make the car kick ass not semi-kick ass, have something worth talking about when you're 80, build your addition off your kitchen NEXT year. The first drawings of the "2007 camaro" that highly resembles the actual current concept was in Hot Rod magazine in 1999 or 2000, and THAT car kicked ass.

The only thing I like is the new Hemi Charger. And I'm a big GM fan. Ford seems to have a bunch of nerds for engineers IMO. They have for years. Who needs cargo room in the rear of a mustang?! A: V-6 buyers. -- aka: chicks with kids. Buy a minivan, you're telling ford to make their mustang ugly and heavy with your purchase. Besides, your car looks like smashed ass, and everybody that's anybody is sick of it because of you.

The V6 mustangs are the bread and butter that allows us to buy the V8 models. What do you think killed off the camaro, not only was it the Cobra was faster but the main reason was sales, v6 sales. Without these mustangs theyre wouldent be mustangs anymore, just like in the 80's I was told everyone laughed at the 4 bangers and blew past them with there 5.0s but if there wasent that 4 banger there wouldent be a 5.0 sales wouldent allow it. Im a fan of V8s the fact that If I want to move I can really MOVE! But in the new mustangs deffence the v6 has come a long way. Look at the horsepower numbers there very close to that of a 5.0 stock to stock and Ive seen some qrt miles in the mid high 15s that aint bad I think for a base v6, Ive driven in a 06 convertible very nice and If any of you have been in one wtf with that almost jet like sound when u get on it its interesting lol.
 

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