NEED HELP ASAP!!!! Starting issues!!

66coupe

66coupe

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I have a 02 lincoln LS with the 3.9L and I'm having trouble starting the car.

I have to hold the key in the ket in the start position for around 5 seconds before it will even start to crank! All lights come on and everything works, no check engine lights. nothing!!!


Anyone have any idea what could be going on? Could it be the key? Could it be a ignition switch? Please help before I get stranded somewhere. Thanks, Jason
 
when i had my 02 it did the same thing... mostly when it was cold... what worked for me was turning the key on and off like 3-4 times.. and then leaving the key opened for a few seconds... it would crank right up no problem
 
What is the PATS light doing when this happens?
Have you tried using a different key?
 
66coupe said:
Pats light is not on or doing anything. I only have the one key for the car.
Click to expand...

If memory serves, it should come on for three seconds when you turn the key on. If it's not, that would tend to indicate some fault with the PATS.


I would get another key and have it programmed now. Once you have two working keys, you can add more yourself, but with just one you will have to get a dealer to do it or some locksmiths have the equipment to do it. I say to do it now because if your one key fails, you will have to have it towed somewhere to get another key programmed.
 
joegr said:
If memory serves, it should come on for three seconds when you turn the key on. If it's not, that would tend to indicate some fault with the PATS.
Click to expand...

you are correct joe, the PATS light should come on solid while cranking the car if the keys code is correct, the PATS light should blink if the code is not correct, since you light is doing neither, then there might be a problem with the PATS module
 
Well I don't see a pats light anywhere on the dash if I turn the keys to the on position or try to start it.

Let me make it clear the car starts and drives fine, it just takes me to hold the key into the start position for about 10. sec. now and the the car will crank and start fine.
 
66coupe said:
Well I don't see a pats light anywhere on the dash if I turn the keys to the on position or try to start it.

Let me make it clear the car starts and drives fine, it just takes me to hold the key into the start position for about 10. sec. now and the the car will crank and start fine.
Click to expand...

PATS problems would only affect starting, not the engine running. You seem to be describing a classic PATS key read problem.

The PATS light is a little red light on the top of the dash, at the center, near the windshield. It's inside a little plastic dome. This same light should flash slowly when the key is off and the doors are locked.
 
so - if you hold the key in start for 10sec - then the car cranks and starts fine
if you just try to start it quickly, it will not crank or start?
 
66coupe said:
Let me make it clear the car starts and drives fine
Click to expand...

for now

wait until the problem gets worse, then the car may never start. i would get a meter out and verify that the ignition switch is in fact working right and outputting 12v on the starter wire right away.
 
Quik LS said:
so - if you hold the key in start for 10sec - then the car cranks and starts fine
if you just try to start it quickly, it will not crank or start?
Click to expand...




Thats correct. If I do it quickly the Nothing happens. Power still stays on every where. Just no click or crank or anything till I hold it in the start position for 10 sec. or more
 
well I just went out and check the car. The pats lights stays on solid while I'm holding the key in the start position until it starts
 
66coupe said:
Thats correct. If I do it quickly the Nothing happens. Power still stays on every where. Just no click or crank or anything till I hold it in the start position for 10 sec. or more
Click to expand...

I wonder if it's fuel pump related... There is a brief pressurization of the fuel system that occurs when you go from ACC to Start - brings the fuel rail pressure up (as it drifts down when sitting) right before you try to start it.
 
Quik LS said:
I wonder if it's fuel pump related... There is a brief pressurization of the fuel system that occurs when you go from ACC to Start - brings the fuel rail pressure up (as it drifts down when sitting) right before you try to start it.
Click to expand...

Okay, I guess one (or both) of us is misunderstanding the problem. I thought that the issue is that the starter does not activate and turn the engine over, not that the engine won't start.

Starter doesn't activate for 10 seconds = PATS or other electrical issue.
Starter runs but engine won't start for 10 seconds = Possible fuel pump issue.
 
1LoudLS said:
if it was fuel pump related, shouldn't it at least crank until right away until the motor got fuel to start
Click to expand...

Hey, don't have another knee-jerk reaction. I'm trying not to have another either.
 
joegr said:
I thought that the issue is that the starter does not activate and turn the engine over, not that the engine won't start.
Click to expand...

thats how i understood the problem

66coupe said:
I have to hold the key in the ket in the start position for around 5 seconds before it will even start to crank!
Click to expand...

you really cant take a statement like this wrong

ive got my money on an electrical problem, and not a fuel delivery issue
 
OP, your next step has to be some troubleshooting, i would start at the ignition switch itself and make sure that it is function properly to rule it out and move on to the next step.


the PATS light is staying on so i dont think that it is a key problem (but that doesnt mean that the issue is not a PATS problem)
 
66coupe said:
well I just went out and check the car. The pats lights stays on solid while I'm holding the key in the start position until it starts
Click to expand...

Does the light go out when it begins to crank? Or after it starts.

I agree that a second key sure would help narrow things down.
 
well I'm going to get a second key made as soon as I can get to the dealer.

The light does go out when it starts, Everything seems to be working right. I have tested the switch and thats fine. My next day off I'm going to pull the starter and test that.
 
66coupe said:
well I'm going to get a second key made as soon as I can get to the dealer.

The light does go out when it starts, Everything seems to be working right. I have tested the switch and thats fine. My next day off I'm going to pull the starter and test that.
Click to expand...

Good call. I'm not sure if the relay is built into the starter on these or not but
something simple and obvious could very well be the way to go.

Curious to see what it is myself.

Good luck
 
There is a solenoid/relay on the starter that pulls the starter gear into position and switches current to the starter motor.
There is a relay in the junction box that switches power to the solenoid/relay on the starter motor.
The relay is driven by a signal from the cluster (which is where the PATS is).

This is according to the service manual. Fortunately, I haven't had to troubleshoot any of this so far, so I don't know it by experience.
 
joegr said:
There is a solenoid/relay on the starter that pulls the starter gear into position and switches current to the starter motor.
There is a relay in the junction box that switches power to the solenoid/relay on the starter motor.
The relay is driven by a signal from the cluster (which is where the PATS is).

This is according to the service manual. Fortunately, I haven't had to troubleshoot any of this so far, so I don't know it by experience.
Click to expand...


Nice, and so not a knee jerk reaction! Way to grow man!!!!:D
 
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