Muddy Water ?

S

Sparkplug70

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I have a 2004 LS with the 3.9 and has 165,000 miles. This morning I heard a gurgling sound under the hood. When I inspected the sound I saw the reservoir tank was full of what looked like mud. When I removed the cap(Engine was warm and off) out came what looked like mud. I started it back up and it idled perfect , but it was pushing this "Muddy Water" out of the tank and when I removed the oil filler tube cap , it was pushing air out like a shop air hose. I checked the dipstick and was about 1/4 quart low but there was no "Muddy Water on the stick. I drove the car that morning for about 10-12 miles and it ran fine and all heater components worked just fine before this started. Do you think it is a head gasket,oil cooler,or what? I appreciate if there is someone out there who can help me out finding my problem. This really "SUCKS" being broke down this close to Christmas. Thanks everybody and Merry Christmas to all and to all a Great LS.......I hope
 
If oil looks okay,and you don't see bubbles coming thru the overflow tank(indicates bad head gasket or possible other leak) when you start it,check the tranny fluid.If a cooler lets fluid get out into the antifreeze,it will turn to muddy gunk and IF the antifreeze gets into trans fluid,the damage is quick and deadly to the tranny. don-ohio
 
The transmission fluid has no opportunity to mix with the coolant. There is no transmission cooler in the radiator. Instead there is a transmission cooler (air cooled only) in front of the radiator.
I'd check the engine oil-to-water cooler (it's at the oil filter) as there have been a few cases of those failing such that oil goes into the coolant. If that is what has happened, it will be a big pain to clean out the cooling system.
 
Glad to hear there is no trans fluid cooler inside radiator,Joe.That eliminates a risk.Didn't know they had water cooled oil......BUMMER! don-ohio
 
How long have you had the car? I am betting someone added stop-leak or that head gasket sealer to the coolant and it is garbage.
 
joegr said:
I'd check the engine oil-to-water cooler (it's at the oil filter) as there have been a few cases of those failing such that oil goes into the coolant. If that is what has happened, it will be a big pain to clean out the cooling system.
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I'm with Joe. Classic symptom of this failure. Repair ASAP before it isn't just oil in the coolant but coolant in the oil!
 
Well? What was the problem,Sparkplug, and how did you fix it? Thanks! don-ohio :)^)
 
How do you check it ? Pressure test of some kind or will filter show ? I took of the main cap on the heater control valve that has the thermostat in it and it has "Major" oil in it. But the cars ran "Great" and I am only 1/2-3/4 qrt low on oil but I knew of 1/2 qrt because it always did that when oil change due. It is not smoking white or steam from exhaust and the dipstick looks good with only oil markings on it in the proper spots. Because after looking at the head gasket factory holes , the coolant does not cross with oil unless between cylinders and if it was there it would smoke due to other liquids in cylinder and at front of head with the timing gear and chain . I know you the man when it comes to the LS so tell me something a lot better than putting on new head gaskets , because it just doesn't seem like a head gasket on an U.S s.o.h.c v/8 would act . The Brit's know how to design an engine..
 
Sparkplug70 said:
... I took of the main cap on the heater control valve that has the thermostat in it and it has "Major" oil in it. ....
Click to expand...

No such thing. The heater valve is on the fan shroud half way down on the right side and has no cap or thermostat. You must be talking about the engine fill cap, which is in front of the engine thermostat.

Sparkplug70 said:
...tell me something a lot better than putting on new head gaskets , because it just doesn't seem like a head gasket on an U.S s.o.h.c v/8 would act...
Click to expand...

It's not either head gasket. I already told you that it is the oil-to-water cooler. Keep messing around and it will get worse and coolant will be in your oil. Then you will need a new engine!
The oil-to-water cooler is that thing that your engine oil filter is screwed onto.
http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6x31025.htm~gen~ref.htm
 
Sparkplug70 said:
How do you check it ? Pressure test of some kind or will filter show ? I took of the main cap on the heater control valve that has the thermostat in it and it has "Major" oil in it. But the cars ran "Great" and I am only 1/2-3/4 qrt low on oil but I knew of 1/2 qrt because it always did that when oil change due. It is not smoking white or steam from exhaust and the dipstick looks good with only oil markings on it in the proper spots. Because after looking at the head gasket factory holes , the coolant does not cross with oil unless between cylinders and if it was there it would smoke due to other liquids in cylinder and at front of head with the timing gear and chain . I know you the man when it comes to the LS so tell me something a lot better than putting on new head gaskets , because it just doesn't seem like a head gasket on an U.S s.o.h.c v/8 would act . The Brit's know how to design an engine..
Click to expand...

joegr said:
No such thing. The heater valve is on the fan shroud half way down on the right side and has no cap or thermostat. You must be talking about the engine fill cap, which is in front of the engine thermostat.



It's not either head gasket. I already told you that it is the oil-to-water cooler. Keep messing around and it will get worse and coolant will be in your oil. Then you will need a new engine!
The oil-to-water cooler is that thing that your engine oil filter is screwed onto.
http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6x31025.htm~gen~ref.htm
Click to expand...

It's #7 in the picture. I have a friend who had this exact same problem. He didn't catch it in time and ruined his engine.
 
Is the cooler a Sport item? I remember reading something about Sports having oil coolers, presumably meaning non-sports don't have the cooler. The replacement engine for my Gen 1 Sport didn't have the cooler
 
Yes, sport only. (Note that almost all gen II V8s were sport.)
If Sparkplug70 doesn't want to replace the cooler, he must at least remove it.
 
joegr said:
Yes, sport only. (Note that almost all gen II V8s were sport.)
If Sparkplug70 doesn't want to replace the cooler, he must at least remove it.
Click to expand...

I would guess that the cooler has the added benefit of getting the oil to operating temp sooner.
While my non sport 02 has the sport suspension and the wheels, it does not have selectshift or this cooler. I should note that the car was certified though and Ford put in a 2006 replacement long block after a claimed spun bearing (I still have suspicion it was chain tensioners and it jumped a tooth).
No, I did no modifications to the car until the CPO was expired.
 
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