Mass air flow
- Thread starter FLTRX
- Start date
Rich88LSC
Dedicated LVC Member
80MM is stock. IMHO not worth upgrading on a mild Mark.
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
The lightninh MAF is a cheap upgrade. Like said above not going to help much. Also it is set for 42 lbs injectors not the mark 24 lbs. So a tune would be needed to fix the calib. Other after market companies make these with sampling tubes that can be changed for injector size. More$$ Some cobra mustang MAf are the same. IMO if you need a larger Maf then you probably need bigger injectors with use of a power adder.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
You obviously have ZERO clue how a maf transfer function works....
No NA mark needs a bigger MAF end of story..
I agree, it's a waste of money.
Even if you got a free one, it'd be a waste of time.
Before switching to a larger maf, you first must verify that you've actually pegged the voltage or gotten close to pegging the voltage of the stock maf.
until you can datalog and verify this information, then you're definately wasting your time.
if I remember correctly the stock maf will support 400HP...since the stock mark 8 is 100HP SHY of that number, the stock maf is perfectly fine for this application
there I fixed it for you.
putting a larger maf on an engine that doenst need it..is bad.
it causes decreased low end resolution in a trade off for upper end scale that you aren't even gonna "hit".
So, you give up low engine speed fuel control, driveability issues and poor economy because the PCM doesnt have the amount of control it DID have with the stock meter in place.
hope this helps
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
Why would you say that is far from the truth. Maybe a mostly stock mark 8 but certainly not a build engine mark with some real power, stroked, large cam,high rpm set up. I guess that wouldn't pull any more air right.
Unless it makes over 400 HP NA.. nope.
MERIJONS97LSC
Dedicated LVC Member
I agree, being that you use the stock mafs on a unit with a larger inside diameter you have lower air velocity passing through the sensor, and the computer tries to compensate. So the computer reads it as less air, not more.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
You need to understand 2 things... an engine has an ability to pull in xx amounts of air... what mods like cams/exhuast/etc do is increase the efficiency of the motor using xx amounts of air...
The only mods that increase the amount of air that can go into the engine is boring and stroking... aka increasing displacement... Or if you run the engine up to a much higher rpm.
So yes if you built a 5.0+L 4v and revved it to the moon you might need a bigger maf... but no 4.6 4v needs a bigger maf.
Food for thought: My Mark pulls a MAX of about .850's load.... my Vic can pull .900's or so... that being said the Vic is using more of the maf's resolution which is a good thing... I would love to see my load numbers peaking at .950-.980... that would be awesome...
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
Better made?
This statement confuses me....
The OEM MAF's are the BEST, end of story, Ford poured a TON of money to have MAF's made to the highest quality as the MAF and the O2's are what make EFI engines tick, and what makes the cars they build get the gas milleage numbers and tail pipe numbers needed to get the gov's ok to build cars!!!
So lets get back to better made... what you really want is a better made MAF transfer function... This is the golden point of dyno tuning combined with a wide band O2... You set your base fuel table and then you tweak the MAF transfer function to give you the lambda numbers that you command... that is the best thing you can do for your car.
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
Using a larger Maf has its place. On a stock mark its not a performance upgrade. I get that. The larger maf has less sensitivity. Volts per cfm of volume. If a maf flows 500 cfm and a larger maf flows 1000 cfm but the engine only flows 470 cfm @ 6000rpm. Then the smaller maf per .1 volt should be close to 10 cfm. The larger would be .1 volt to 20 cfm, much less sensitive. This is why the ecu would need to be tuned to know that the maf has a larger opening. The air speed is slower due to the larger maf housing.
Is that getting close to how it works?
Is that getting close to how it works?
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
Also while we're talking about air flow. Anybody know the flow efficiency of these engines. I was doing the math for my turbo choice a few weeks ago. I went with 85-90% for my calculations. The turbo's already purchased so it just for my own info.
topher5150
Dedicated LVC Member
after reading this i'm thinking about changing mine back to stock, dose anyone have a stock air box hooked up to a cobra intake tube and manifold
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
You are getting at it... but what a larger maf does is exactly what you DON'T want... you want to use up as much of the MAF's resolution as possible, like I said I can hit .85 load numbers out of a possible 1.00......
Here is the stock Mark MAF transfer... if this means anything to you
1023.9844 0.0000036336 5.000, 47.705
1023.0000 0.0000036336 4.995, 47.705
980.0000 0.0000031916 4.785, 41.903
920.0000 0.0000026445 4.492, 34.720
870.0000 0.0000022445 4.248, 29.468
820.0000 0.0000018915 4.004, 24.834
780.0000 0.0000016405 3.809, 21.539
740.0000 0.0000014091 3.613, 18.500
700.0000 0.0000012089 3.418, 15.871
660.0000 0.0000010305 3.223, 13.530
620.0000 0.0000008726 3.027, 11.457
580.0000 0.0000007334 2.832, 9.629
540.0000 0.0000006114 2.637, 8.027
500.0000 0.0000005048 2.441, 6.627
460.0000 0.0000004084 2.246, 5.362
420.0000 0.0000003325 2.051, 4.365
380.0000 0.0000002617 1.855, 3.436
340.0000 0.0000002063 1.660, 2.708
300.0000 0.0000001602 1.465, 2.103
280.0000 0.0000001397 1.367, 1.834
260.0000 0.0000001211 1.270, 1.590
240.0000 0.0000001043 1.172, 1.369
220.0000 0.0000000894 1.074, 1.174
200.0000 0.0000000759 0.977, 0.997
160.0000 0.0000000522 0.781, 0.685
140.0000 0.0000000428 0.684, 0.562
120.0000 0.0000000345 0.586, 0.452
100.0000 0.0000000275 0.488, 0.361
0.0000 0.0000000000 0.000, 0.000
0.0000 0.0000000000 0.000, 0.000
driller
Dedicated LVC Member
You can have higher than 1.00......
I was told that information back a few years ago when I went from a stock MAF on a 97 t-bird to a stock MAF from a 2004 Mustang GT. So it was a stock unit to a stock unit. I was told it would give me faster throttle response, BUT I had it done with a tune so it was impossible for me to know what actually caused the increase. Hence the reason I asked, I was unclear myself.
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
No means nothing to me KK. But my loads are in the .8 range max and maf 4.3 range max from what files I looked at.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
True... but only if you undo the cap in the stock programming...
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
Yes its all the same on the spray, both laod and maf. Spray is behind the maf it does know anything about it.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
I see... I didn't know ihow your nitrous was set up...
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
Yeah Its not good to spray thru the sensor. wet or dry, just manually add the extra fuel needed.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
I know that spraying through the MAF can destroy it... I really wish I knew more about spray...