Looking to buy an LS; finding a few that claim bad head gasket

jruppert

jruppert

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Ive been looking around for a while for an LS but haven't had the cash up front to get one. Anyway, I am in the position to purchasing one and looking to spend around $3k if possible. I am finding several LS's on craigslist that claim to have a bad head gasket. I haven't contacted these owners but I wanted to know if this was a common issue. I am looking at Gen1 models. I've searched on this site for over heating issues and head gaskets. I seem to find quite a bit regarding the degas bottle and fan. I do know what to look for when diagnosing a bad head gasket. So I was wondering 'statistically' what the chances of a bad head gasket. I understand that any engine could over heat and have a bad gasket... It happens.. I'm just surprised that I am finding so many that claim a bad head gasket. Thanks
 
I've only ever heard of one head gasket failure on an LS, and that one was suspect (may have been misdiagnosed.) The LS engines have failsafe cooling, so I am not surprised that head gasket failures are rare.
It is common for the valve cover gaskets to fail. It may be that some are confusing valve cover gaskets with head gaskets. Also, the LS cooling system can be difficult to correctly diagnose. Maybe some are assuming it is a head gasket problem since they can't figure out the real problem.

In general, it seems to me that head gasket problems are most common on four cylinder cars and least common on V8s. Six cylinder engines are somewhere in between.
 
I was short on cash earlier because of some past medical bills that needed to be paid off.

I will have to ask some of these people why they assume its a head gasket issue. Are these cars as much of a money pit as the older Taurus SHO's? I had a 93 and it seemed like I was always dinkin around with it.
 
The Lincoln LS is a luxury car. In addition, the engineers indulged themselves in some 'creative solutions' to problems (hydraulic fan power). FoMoCo is also very proud---$$$--- of some of their replacement parts.

An LS works best if you have tools and knowledge and an adventurous spirit. Or deep pockets! :D

KS
 
cammerfe said:
FoMoCo is also very proud---$$$--- of some of their replacement parts.
KS
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That's a nice way to put it lol!

+1 on Joe and Cammerfe's thoughts. Also, if you're looking into cars that need minor repairs take into consideration the cost of parts alone. I see people selling some cars on CL and don't realize the price it will cost to repair what's wrong with them when attempting to sell.
 
Edited:

cammerfe said:
The Lincoln LS is a luxury car. In addition, the engineers indulged themselves in some 'creative solutions' to problems (hydraulic fan power). FoMoCo is also very proud---$$$--- of some of their replacement parts.

An LS works best if you have tools and knowledge and an adventurous spirit AND deep pockets! :D

KS
Click to expand...

And Ford reduced their costs around 2005-2008 by not stocking up on replacement parts from suppliers, especially on vehicles going out of production. So the Ford/Lincoln parts supply is dwindling rapidly on suspension, engine, etc components for the DEW98 platform. And with the service supply bean counters seeing the supply inventory dry up (and with the weakening dollar) parts prices are soaring on these scarce items.
 
jruppert said:
I was short on cash earlier because of some past medical bills that needed to be paid off.

I will have to ask some of these people why they assume its a head gasket issue. Are these cars as much of a money pit as the older Taurus SHO's? I had a 93 and it seemed like I was always dinkin around with it.
Click to expand...

If the car was taken care of then there shouldn't be too many problems. If no one maintained the car then you're gonna have problems.

I had a cylinder head replaced in 2005. The dealership said it was bad and replaced it. The check engine light came on, I took it in and thats what the result was. I'm not sure if it was bad or not but its ran fine since.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=8802
 
Comparing an LS to a SHO isn't really a good way of going about it. The LS existed as it's own car for only 6 years. The technology in the LS is a few order of magnitudes more complex and finicky then a SHO. Being designed at the start as a luxury car instead of as a practical 4-door family car is another major difference in maintenance and parts price.

The SHO was an engine upgrade and styling package to a Taurus that was successful in fleet and retail sales. Because of that, things were easier and cheaper to find. In addition, the SHO was successful on it's own and was a recognized car which helped it in the parts department too.

If money is tight and you aren't inclined to do all your own wrenching then I wouldn't look at an LS. They are notorious for eating COPs, leaky valve covers, brittle plastic cooling system components, and suspension pieces going bad. The Gen 1's also have their own unique issues like transmission solenoid packs, a hydraulic fan setup, and timing chain issues.

A set of Visteon COPs will cost you around $200 from ebay. Replacing the plastic cooling system parts is $5-600 depending on what you replace. The solenoid packs are anywhere from $3-500 depending on who you talk to. Suspension pieces range from $20 for the front end sway bar link to $300 for arms depending on what you need. Timing chain kits I've seen as high as $600 depending on what you were replacing.

I wouldn't recommend the LS if you aren't doing your own wrenching and have the money for the parts. It does take more to repair and maintain.
 
I do 99% of all my work. I rebuilt the engine in my SHO 3.2, built a couple 302's, a 347, and did a 351w swap in my 94 Mustang. I am not intimidated by having to do any work that is needed. Much of what I have learned through out the years is by people like you in these forums sharing their knowledge. Thanks for the suggestions.
 
Havent heard of any head gasket issues with the LS tbh. Very common in the 2.3-3.0L I6 bimmers though.
 
The LS has failsafe cooling....4 cylinders actually cool the heads when its overheating so i dont really think its possible to blow a headgasket.

It runs like crap while doing it and throws codes but at least you wont ruin the engine.
 
...theres a '01 in my area with the same "head gasket" problem...i had never heard of this either... however, for the price it could be worth looking into... whats the most common problem with the coolant system?

i never had a problem with the coolant system my '02 V8...damn near replaced everything else though :mad:... so is it as simple as broken plastic parts if there actually is a problem with the coolant system??
 
Long_Island_LS said:
...theres a '01 in my area with the same "head gasket" problem...i had never heard of this either... however, for the price it could be worth looking into... whats the most common problem with the coolant system?

i never had a problem with the coolant system my '02 V8...damn near replaced everything else though :mad:... so is it as simple as broken plastic parts if there actually is a problem with the coolant system??
Click to expand...

The degas bottle seems to crack first, usually followed by the thermostat tower it seems. I haven't had this issue yet but I've seen a bunch of threads roll through here about it. The gen2 seems to be less problematic, but they are still a few years newer.

In all fairness to the poster, the only problem I've had with my LS has been a DCCV going bad, and the rear toe-links and sway bars. Although I am pretty sure the front balljoints are going out as we speak. Guess I'll need to crawl my fat arse under there and look.
 
Kumba said:
The degas bottle seems to crack first, usually followed by the thermostat tower it seems. I haven't had this issue yet but I've seen a bunch of threads roll through here about it. The gen2 seems to be less problematic, but they are still a few years newer.

In all fairness to the poster, the only problem I've had with my LS has been a DCCV going bad, and the rear toe-links and sway bars. Although I am pretty sure the front balljoints are going out as we speak. Guess I'll need to crawl my fat arse under there and look.
Click to expand...

...thanks for the insight...gives me something to think about
 
jruppert said:
Ive been looking around for a while for an LS but haven't had the cash up front to get one. Anyway, I am in the position to purchasing one and looking to spend around $3k if possible. I am finding several LS's on craigslist that claim to have a bad head gasket. I haven't contacted these owners but I wanted to know if this was a common issue. I am looking at Gen1 models. I've searched on this site for over heating issues and head gaskets. I seem to find quite a bit regarding the degas bottle and fan. I do know what to look for when diagnosing a bad head gasket. So I was wondering 'statistically' what the chances of a bad head gasket. I understand that any engine could over heat and have a bad gasket... It happens.. I'm just surprised that I am finding so many that claim a bad head gasket. Thanks
Click to expand...

Never seen a head gasket blown, just coolant leaks the bottle and the plastic deteriorating between the heads. Happens on all makes of cars now.

LS's go into overheat protect mode canceling cylinders to protect the engine using the cylinder head temp sensors on each bank to prevent engine damage. The local mechanic will assume the head gaskets are blown when this happens. I have seen many Lincolns come into the shop doing this, never damaging the engine. Just fix the coolant leak.

They all need suspension work, window regulators and more.

All these cars have the wrong brakes on them. (stand on the pedal to stop).

These are well designed cars and properly maintained expect 300,000 wonderful miles or more out of them.

The problem is that people buy them and can't afford the payments, neglect the car or only do what is covered under warranty. Others try to go cheap and go to the corner neighborhood garage and they mess up the car very bad.

I buy and rebuild Lincoln LS's all the time.
Look for a Sport package, better equipment, i.e. oil cooler. Engine will last longer.
You will not find a LS under $3000 that doesn't need thousands of dollars of work. I bought three last year. One needed engine and plenty of repairs and bodywork, interior work too. Nice reliable car now. Have $7,500 in this car and it's done right. Rollin rode in this one the other day. Ask him.

Next car was a $3,000 spec. build for a customer. Car needed transmission and more work than expected. Every time I turned around there was hidden mechanical problems from improper repairs from some farm mechanic. This one came out very nice and had the full business package added to it. Touch screen with hands free cell, blue tooth, ipod usb & iphone usb interface, 1/8" input jack USB jumb drive input, DVD, Added sub speakers & amp, Integrated Garmin Navigation, Enlarged glove box, extra lighter plugs, 110V power receptacle, Led trunk light kit, high candle power headlamps. Car sold for $8,500.

The next car for $1,000 was just wrecked in the front end above the frame. This one is going for around $5,000 with basic factory stereo & interior/exterior. This owner is considering the business pack $1,850. He is a corporate guy that knows how to save money on cars.

There is an LS in southeast missouri craigslist for $4,500 with 45K sport package. This is a good buy, but it needs window regulators and probably some other work.

I am 34 year ASE master mechanic, Ford Senior Master Tech 9 years, and I own 4 Lincoln LS. Check the picture of my driveway. Not all mentioned Lincolns are shown in picture.

I hope this helps you find your Lincoln,

or

If you can afford it I can build a Lincoln for you. It will be right and enjoyable.

Lincoln Party.jpg
 
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jruppert said:
I do 99% of all my work. I rebuilt the engine in my SHO 3.2, built a couple 302's, a 347, and did a 351w swap in my 94 Mustang. I am not intimidated by having to do any work that is needed. Much of what I have learned through out the years is by people like you in these forums sharing their knowledge. Thanks for the suggestions.
Click to expand...


I would try and stay away from Gen 1s. The difference maybe a $1000 or two, but definitely worth it. Not saying, if you buy a well maintained gen 1 it will not be reliable, but Gen 2s are that much better.

If you are looking at a car and need opinions on it or any questions on anything, just let us know.
 
Howie,

Nice picture. Some good lookin' 5 series beaters there. You know those signs that read "Lincoln/or whatever make parking only. All others will be towed" would be appropriate in your driveway.
 
:eek:

Your driveway is like an LS convention!

The problem is that people buy them and can't afford the payments, neglect the car or only do what is covered under warranty. Others try to go cheap and go to the corner neighborhood garage and they mess up the car very bad.
Click to expand...

This is VERY true. When I was shopping for LSes I ran into so many that had just been beat so far into the ground it was sad. Most of the time it was a younger guy who had got the car cheap and figured if the car was cheap, might as well throw cheap parts/fluids/etc. at it and treat it like a honda civic.

I was so happy when I found "the right one". The previous owner kept it as a weekend car so it was mostly mint. All I've had to do so far are the most common fixes, valve cover gasket/coils got doen at dealer for free under extended warranty, and cooling system being redone in my garage :D
 
Shredicus said:
:eek:

Your driveway is like an LS convention!



This is VERY true. When I was shopping for LSes I ran into so many that had just been beat so far into the ground it was sad. Most of the time it was a younger guy who had got the car cheap and figured if the car was cheap, might as well throw cheap parts/fluids/etc. at it and treat it like a honda civic.

I was so happy when I found "the right one". The previous owner kept it as a weekend car so it was mostly mint. All I've had to do so far are the most common fixes, valve cover gasket/coils got doen at dealer for free under extended warranty, and cooling system being redone in my garage :D
Click to expand...

Nice looking 03. I am doing some body work to an 03 that had a very bad repair history at the Dealer (some bad mechanics is all that was wrong) Since I have been taking car of the car it's been reliable. Now has 200K on the odometer, runs like new. The trick is to find someone that knows the cars and will take the time to do it right. Took a camaro LS1 owner out for a very brisk ride in it. He was very impressed. He said "These cars hookup right away and fly, then slow down fast and turn fast!"
 
I have been happy that my LS was originally owned by an older buisness man who had regular dealership maintence, (not that knoy the dealer is qualified). I have put 10K miles this summer/winter and have had ZERO problems!! I have been putting money in luxury add ons. Of course MR HOWIE could be my new best friend with him having som much confidence and knowledge of the LS platform and it's weaknesses.

Knock on wood, I'm hoping my 04 is one that built on a GOOD day and never has issues!!
you know, I've read on here several times about proper maintence, but I have to admit that my biggest fear is the plastic cooling parts!! I can't think of any maintence that I could do to keep the plastic from getting brittle. It seems to me the guys down south would have the bigger fear, but we all at some point will need to spend the money for the Plastic cooling system repair. The best advice on this that I have read is when one part goes bad,,, SPEND the money and do it ALL! No labor saved if you end up doing different cooling parts 4 different times in one season.

I have big love for my LS
 
I also came from a 1993 SHO to a 2003 LS V-8 Sport. No comparison at all. The LS compared to the SHO is just dead reliable and so much better made! I have 87K on the LS now and it is still in almost perfect condition.

Have I repaired things? Yes all the standard stuff that's documented so well on this forum. Window regulators, Coils and plugs (But covered with special Ford program), DVCC, Transmission solenoid pack (But back under factory warranty). Sagging headliner and sunroof drains leaking water. A few rattles and squeaks too.

Also a few upgrades like factory HID lights, Better speakers, SS brake lines and pads, SCT tuner, factory wood steering wheel and shifter handle.

I also agree to try and get a Gen II. 2003 and up V-8. I am still very satisfied with the price I paid for my 2003 used and the cost of ownership so far.
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Mr.Howie said:
Nice looking 03. I am doing some body work to an 03 that had a very bad repair history at the Dealer (some bad mechanics is all that was wrong) Since I have been taking car of the car it's been reliable. Now has 200K on the odometer, runs like new. The trick is to find someone that knows the cars and will take the time to do it right. Took a camaro LS1 owner out for a very brisk ride in it. He was very impressed. He said "These cars hookup right away and fly, then slow down fast and turn fast!"
Click to expand...

Thanks! I've been keeping a maintenance log as I do all the routine fluid changes and whatnot t make sure I stay on top of everything. While this isn't my first car it's the first one I've really had a sense of pride owning so I have been obsessing over every little thing haha. Good to hear a well-maintained LS can keep on going. I too was very impressed by the amount of grunt an LS has, and the handling is very competent! My brakes are on the way out, but I'm sure once I get those all squared away I'll be happy with the stopping power too
 
Thanks for all the input guys. I do like the 03 and up style. I would get a gen1 if the price was right. Speaking of price, I found a 2000 black ls v8 for $1500.00 The car is appears to be in good shape, inside and out. He says the car will not start but it does turn over. That could be a number of things. Being that it turns over makes me optimistic.

What do you think?
 
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