Is my Lincoln possessed by satan??

[dba]

hello. 2003 Lincoln LS V8 here. Here's the problem. The car starts and runs just fine when it is cold (the engine temp.) but once the engine warms it will just randomly die. It doesn't make any weird noises or anything...it just dies. like somebody turned the key. But here's where it gets weird. After dying, it will start right back up with no fuss at all and run for a while.....until it dies again, but after it dies it starts right back up.

Not sure if this is related or not, but a while ago I was on the road with it and it broke down. At first it felt like it downshifted hard...but then it did that same sort of hard downshift feeling again and again and pretty soon it was was constantly doing this. I still had the gas depressed so it was accelerating and then stalling so I was getting thrown around in the car from this. Is this confusing? I'll sum it up....Basically car started stalling and then regaining power repeatedly and ever more frequently until it finally just died. Waited 1 1/2 hours to be towed 20min back home .

To Recap:
Car runs fine when cold but once it warms up it will abruptly die like someone turned the key off. It starts right back up but after a while it will die again.

It has new valve cover gaskets
New mass air flow sensor
New battery
New throttle body in '08
New thermostat in '08 too
New coolant hoses
New Catalytic Converters
All fuses are working

The car normally sounds like this. Is this normal??




So then whatever issue it was having got worse and now it sounds like a dying cat AND THEN it dies. heres that...



Has anyone had a similar problem? I'm desperate for help!!

 

[joegr]

I expect that this might work better if you would keep it all in one thread.

Latest symptom sounds like bad/marginal COPs. EMI from the COP(s) causing the PCM to crash and reboot. There's been a few cases of that. Let it go on, and it will kill your PCM. (If this is really what's happening.)

 

[BILLBOATS]

I expect that this might work better if you would keep it all in one thread.

Latest symptom sounds like bad/marginal COPs. EMI from the COP(s) causing the PCM to crash and reboot. There's been a few cases of that. Let it go on, and it will kill your PCM. (If this is really what's happening.)

What does copS stand for and also emi?

 

[BILLBOATS]

Tru testing fuel presure while driving car. You can rent it from auto zone n/c . I like run the gauge end out the front left side , close the hood till it safety latches but lets the hose free. Then put the gauge under a wiper to hold it firm. While in park start car up (in cold) start psi should be 40 . +. Let it run in drive way till it konks out and re start to see what presure is in hot mode. If it gets under 35 , suspect the fuel pump. Try restar in cold and read it over . Back to 40 suspect fuel pump. If it stays at 40 hot or cold fuel pump is not broken

 

[BILLBOATS]

hello. 2003 Lincoln LS V8 here. Here's the problem. The car starts and runs just fine when it is cold (the engine temp.) but once the engine warms it will just randomly die. It doesn't make any weird noises or anything...it just dies. like somebody turned the key. But here's where it gets weird. After dying, it will start right back up with no fuss at all and run for a while.....until it dies again, but after it dies it starts right back up.

Not sure if this is related or not, but a while ago I was on the road with it and it broke down. At first it felt like it downshifted hard...but then it did that same sort of hard downshift feeling again and again and pretty soon it was was constantly doing this. I still had the gas depressed so it was accelerating and then stalling so I was getting thrown around in the car from this. Is this confusing? I'll sum it up....Basically car started stalling and then regaining power repeatedly and ever more frequently until it finally just died. Waited 1 1/2 hours to be towed 20min back home .

To Recap:
Car runs fine when cold but once it warms up it will abruptly die like someone turned the key off. It starts right back up but after a while it will die again.

It has new valve cover gaskets
New mass air flow sensor
New battery
New throttle body in '08
New thermostat in '08 too
New coolant hoses
New Catalytic Converters
All fuses are working

The car normally sounds like this. Is this normal??




So then whatever issue it was having got worse and now it sounds like a dying cat AND THEN it dies. heres that...



Has anyone had a similar problem? I'm desperate for help!!

hello. 2003 Lincoln LS V8 here. Here's the problem. The car starts and runs just fine when it is cold (the engine temp.) but once the engine warms it will just randomly die. It doesn't make any weird noises or anything...it just dies. like somebody turned the key. But here's where it gets weird. After dying, it will start right back up with no fuss at all and run for a while.....until it dies again, but after it dies it starts right back up.

Not sure if this is related or not, but a while ago I was on the road with it and it broke down. At first it felt like it downshifted hard...but then it did that same sort of hard downshift feeling again and again and pretty soon it was was constantly doing this. I still had the gas depressed so it was accelerating and then stalling so I was getting thrown around in the car from this. Is this confusing? I'll sum it up....Basically car started stalling and then regaining power repeatedly and ever more frequently until it finally just died. Waited 1 1/2 hours to be towed 20min back home .

To Recap:
Car runs fine when cold but once it warms up it will abruptly die like someone turned the key off. It starts right back up but after a while it will die again.

It has new valve cover gaskets
New mass air flow sensor
New battery
New throttle body in '08
New thermostat in '08 too
New coolant hoses
New Catalytic Converters
All fuses are working

The car normally sounds like this. Is this normal??




So then whatever issue it was having got worse and now it sounds like a dying cat AND THEN it dies. heres that...



Has anyone had a similar problem? I'm desperate for help!!

 

[BILLBOATS]

Took my time watching the motor run and shut off. I changed my mind and since it shut off like a keyy turning it off, ITs not getting spark to the plugs after it runs till hot. Try scanning it for codes. Something is cutting off the current to the plugs . Has to be the fire not fuel. Go to the closest auto zone, O rileys, or advanced. Say 5 miles from your home or less. The less the better. Might want to call ahead and ask if they can ascan. Let them scan hot and then cold. Compair scans. Then go from the new info for the next move(what you find out). Its a bi-ch . The problem can be figured out but hang in there. Write back soon

 

[dba]

COP=CoilOverPLUG
EMI=ElectromagneticInterference
Just bought a fuel pressure tester....am going to test that tomorrow
I have a scan tool, but it is just a basic one. I have scanned it and analyzed live data, but nothing out of the ordinary showed, other than an o2 sensor code. I dont think the o2 sensors can cause this issue so I just ignore them. Could it be a bad pcm maybe? what could be cutting off spark? Thoughts? Thanks for your help

 

[dba]

The way I troubleshoot is like this. There are 3 main things that the engine needs to run
1. Air
2. Fuel
3. Spark
One of those things is wrong and once i figure out which one i can narrow it down from there. Im fairly certain it is not air though. 'joegr' suggested I figure out what throttle is doing when it dies, but the issue with that is the throttle is after the MAF and there is no way to see what the throttle is doing without removing the MAF (Removing the MAF would cause it to run horribly...and prob go into failsafe mode....again...yay!) So thats my current dilemma...

 

[joegr]

Your scan tool can show you what the throttle is doing.

You know you have an O2 sensor problem, but you are ignoring it? Solving it might lead you to the problem. I have heard of cars stalling due to O2 sensor problems, as unlikely as that might seem.

 

[dba]

Sorry, I had forgotten you can check throttle with scan tool. ill look into it. With the o2 sensor thing...yes I am ignoring it, I simply do not have money to throw at this thing and really all the oxygen sensor does is monitor oxygen and helps calculate fuel trim. Curious, if the catalytic converters were removed, as in like totally hollow, how would that effect (did i use the correct 'affect' there?) the o2 sensors? I honestly just dont think that the sensors could cause this big of an issue. Like I said, I'm also gonna test more of this tomorrow.

 

[joegr]

Yeah, they only determine how much fuel is injected...

 

[cammerfe]

Joe, your wry comments sometimes make me chuckle!

KS

 

[dba]

The saga continues....
Went out to check fuel pressure. The gauge was defective and leaking but it still worked, so it only ever showed 11 psi. Took some vids...tell me what you think

What the heck is that whistling noise? Vacuum Leak??


When it finally died

Dont think it is fuel pump. It worked fine and it spiked at the end because it was trying to repressurise after car died (becuase key was in 'on' position)

I code scanned and also checked pending codes
P2195--o2 stuck lean bank 1 sensor 1 (got this code twice...it is set and pending??)
P0113--intake air temperature sensor 1 circuit high
P0171--system too lean bank 1


Thoughts?

Looked at some of fuel leaking from gauge and thought it seemed old. no pic yet, going to do in depth analysis...I just noticed it says 91+ octane only....do u guys use 91 octane? what would happen if you didnt. So thats what I did today


And...if I have to admit....."joeger"'s joke about the o2 sensors only injecting fuel was pretty funny...

 

[SoonerLS]

If you're really only getting 11psi at the rail, you most likely have a weak fuel pump, with leaking fuel injectors or a plugged fuel filter as possibilities. You're waaay under pressure--you should be seeing (IIRC) around 50psi while running. I'm gonna guess that it's probably not leaking injectors, as the system repressurizes when you kill the engine. (That repressurization is expected--the fuel pump is still delivering fuel, but it's no longer going out the injectors, so the pressure should build.)

That also explains the codes--if your fuel system is under-pressured, you're not getting enough fuel into the cylinder, which is the definition of "lean."

 

[dba]

And so the plot thickens....Low fuel pressure sounds about right. BUT, would low fuel pressure effect how it drives? as in feeling under-powered? when i drove it, it was anything but under-powered. Also it was only lean on bank 1 which is the side opposite of where i had the pressure gauge....could the gauge have caused this? The gauge itself was leaking fuel (not bad connection...the gauge was faulty) could this effect the reading? Could this low fuel pressure be caused by a fuel filter or fuel pressure regulator or fuel pressure sensor? I will check the fuel pressure coming directly out of the pump to see if there is a difference. Also, when you pressurize the system and then turn the key off, all of the pressure immediately drops. Thoughts on that? I feel like we re narrowing in on the issue here.....But, could weak fuel pressure cause the engine to die like that?
I will clear the codes and run it as normal and see if the code returns but they were never "set" codes in the first place..only pending ones..any suggestions other than getting a working fuel pressure gauge?

 

[dba]

Also, does anyone know where the fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure sensors are located? along with the fuel filter? Could running old fuel cause any of these issues? I also know that the engine is supposed to have 91 octane in it...could regular fuel make a difference? what do you guys use for fuel?

 

[joegr]

Immediate pressure drop = leak (injector or in your case leaking fuel pressure gauge) or bad check valve in fuel pump assembly.

There is no fuel pressure regulator. Fuel pressure is controlled via the PCM telling the REM how hard to drive the fuel pump.

The fuel pressure sensor is at the front of the right (passenger side) fuel rail.

Old fuel can certainly be a problem. How old?

Yes, you should only use 91 or higher octane, as the owner's manual clearly states (you did read it didn't you?). Lower octane reduces performance and mileage. It can also cause engine damage if either of your knock sensors aren't working right. It's probably not much of your current problem.

 

[dba]

Good to know. I actually just purchased this from an auction so i have no idea how long it sat or what sort of fuel is in it. No I didnt read the owners manual in its entirety, but I did hit key areas. Do you know my car still has the original "blues clues car safety" sticker! and a few other knicknacks. Im going to analyze the fuel thats in it to determine if its bad and also run the earlier stated tests. Does anybody know where the fuel filter is (probably buried) on this thing?? Thanks for all of your support btw, joegr

 

[joegr]

"The" fuel filter is behind the driver's front wheel liner.

You may find this useful, in general: 2006 Lincoln LS Workshop Manual -- brought to you by Owlman

 

[AmsterDutch]

Good to know. I actually just purchased this from an auction so i have no idea how long it sat or what sort of fuel is in it. No I didnt read the owners manual in its entirety, but I did hit key areas. Do you know my car still has the original "blues clues car safety" sticker! and a few other knicknacks. Im going to analyze the fuel thats in it to determine if its bad and also run the earlier stated tests. Does anybody know where the fuel filter is (probably buried) on this thing?? Thanks for all of your support btw, joegr

Have you tried rebooting the PCM by disconnecting the negative battery cable for 10 minutes?

 

[dba]

Hahahahahah..ive tried disconnecting that thing for (literally) a week, a few days at a time, a few hours, and even a few minutes at a time. Now that you mention it, it does seem like the problems might improve a tad after I do that....which would indicate I probably have a bad pcm (yay! more expensive and complicated things to fix)

thanks for the info on the filter...I'll look tomorrow
Also my car is a v8 (I know you said "in general" it would be helpful and it looks to be, but i just wanted to make sure lol) (and while im at it it is an '03 not an '06...but I KNOW you knew that much lol) ok once again thanks for the help, more tests and updates soon!

 

[De-marko]

Good info!

 

[joegr]

... Now that you mention it, it does seem like the problems might improve a tad after I do that......which would indicate I probably have a bad pcm...

I don't think it indicates that. You are resetting all the adaptations to safe defaults. The PCM doesn't stay at the defaults, because it wants/needs to get to the best emissions, fuel economy, life, and performance compromise. As it learns the particular calibrations of your specific engine, it moves away from the safe defaults and tries to get to the perfect mixture and such. It assumes that everything is working correctly. If it's not, then as the mixture and other parameters get tighter and tighter, then any marginal problems become bigger and bigger issues.

 

[AmsterDutch]

I don't think it indicates that. You are resetting all the adaptations to safe defaults. The PCM doesn't stay at the defaults, because it wants/needs to get to the best emissions, fuel economy, life, and performance compromise. As it learns the particular calibrations of your specific engine, it moves away from the safe defaults and tries to get to the perfect mixture and such. It assumes that everything is working correctly. If it's not, then as the mixture and other parameters get tighter and tighter, then any marginal problems become bigger and bigger issues.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if my fuel pressure is perfect and all cylinders are firing perfect, air intake pressure is perfect then I reboot the PCM and it relearns the car running perfect my PCM will then lock everything in with perfect settings? ..forgive my non- technical vocabulary lol but in short my fuel system was messed up with my connector not being within proper dimensions on fuel assembly module but if I replace fuel system and everything is in perfect specifications and reboot PCM with proper specifications in place ...hypothetically speaking, the car should run properly until something mechanically fails...is this right?

 

[joegr]

The PCM never locks anything in. It continuously learns and adjusts.

Sometimes a reset can speed things up, but it never causes anything to happen that wasn't going to anyway.