2002WRXSTi
Dedicated LVC Member
Any particular reason?
intake question.
- Thread starter MarkAte
- Start date
Any particular reason?
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
The car doesn't need it, and putting factor maf into a housing it wasn't calibrated fro just isn't a good idea...
Cbecker1994Vlll
Well-Known LVC Member
it doesn't NEED it persay but does benifit from them. like i said put your car on a dyno and test it with one on
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
Or get a proper tune and leave the perfectly good stock maf on and enjoy a car that runs properly....
Cbecker1994Vlll
Well-Known LVC Member
with a PROPER tune as you would say it still didn't put down the power it did with the maf on it add 9rwhp, now wheter you need it or not on a mostly stock motor can be decided person to person but everyone would like more power and thats what it did made more power on a mostly stock motor then with the cams it helped out a :q:q:q:q load. and mine runs properly because it is tuned right I have never had one of the problems you guys talk about haveing.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm glad that it has worked out for you... but I have heard more bad than good. I also would never put a blanket tune on my car.
Cbecker1994Vlll
Well-Known LVC Member
I will agree with you on this blanket tunes are bad. you have to have a chassis dyno and see what works do dial it in correctly, because it always varies from car to car. the chip I got from geno was a great chip it was pretty damn close to dead on. but thanks to a chassis dyno we were able to fine tune it. and get alot more power and better driveablitliy.
thats the thing if you guys are adding these mods to your car You need to have it dyno tuned. Spend the money it is worth it. if you don't have the money to spend to get it properly tuned then don't but anything but exhaust on.
Rich88LSC
Dedicated LVC Member
A few of you keep bringing up how you wouldn't use a mail order tune and how everyone should get a dyno tune. I am not arguing you can make more power with a dyno tune and certain mods will go beyond what a mail order tuner can handle but there is nothing wrong with a mail order tune for most of us that have pretty much stock cars. I don't see the point in spending twice as much money to have someone who has zero experience with Mark VIIIs to put my stock intake stock MAF stock cams car on the dyno.
There are a few well qualified tuners out there who have experience with Mark VIIIs that do mail order. I looked into both options, went mail order and am happy with the results. Down the road if the mods lists gets longer I will probably be taking a road trip to a tuner I trust to put the car on a dyno, but for now the car runs great.
There are a few well qualified tuners out there who have experience with Mark VIIIs that do mail order. I looked into both options, went mail order and am happy with the results. Down the road if the mods lists gets longer I will probably be taking a road trip to a tuner I trust to put the car on a dyno, but for now the car runs great.
Cbecker1994Vlll
Well-Known LVC Member
it doesnt' have anything to do with mark experiance they just have to know how to tune a 32v 4.6. what is sitting around the motor doesn't really matter. do you have any idea how much power ford left on the table with these power wise. if you take a bone stock not mods at all mark in and get it tuned my someone that knows how to tune a 32v 4.6 correctly and safely, there is about 15-22 rwhp that ford left on the table with these. thats bone stock there are a few people up here in kc that have had marks just tuned and nothing else are more then happy with what the shop pulled out of them. on top of takeing out the grandpa shift.
Well if you dyno'd it before and after then PLEASE post the dyno graphs showing this supposed gain.
AND.. in respect to the "boost" on your mustang.
"boost is a meaningless number, it is "ONLY" a measure of the air your engine "couldn't swallow"... or "wasted air".
The air that actually made it into the cylinder is FAR more important than measuring "boost pressure".
But please post the gains you got from going from a stock air box TO a cone filter...otherwise what you are posting is merly hearsay with no real data to support it.
The main thing about a dyno tune is that you can "verify" that the "commanded AF ratio" is actually what the car is "delivering".
most mail order tunes leave the tuner with alot of "conservative" left into them, so the tuner doesn't lose ALL HIS PROFIT spending hours on the phone trouble shooting "supposed tune issues"..when 99 times out of 100 times the problem is with the CAR, the DRIVER or the FUEL.
A dyno tune abliet expensive will allow you to "push the envelope" safely.
Well today was nice so I decided to put the LMS Big MAF and cold air kit back on my 96'.
Anyway I put it all on and started it, smooth idle and stabbed the throttle getting that bit of a roar. Take it for a test drive around the block again and it went pretty good. Nice rumble/roar when ya stomp on it but I noticed when I would pass a car or van the engine sounded loud
Loud as in pinging I think? Either that or the engine all of a sudden got real loose? I am only running 89 but that is what I have been running like since the gas got stupid expensive so I would gather I would have heard it before?
I got the kit of EBAY so I can't be sure that it wasn't modified for bigger injectors or anything like that? No CEL light yet but I sweat I hear some more pinging than I ever heard before
what is happening by putting a large C&L maf on your car when using the STOCK MAF sensor is you are lying to the PCM in regards to the amount of air flow entering the engine.
On a STONE STOCK mark 8 it's "OK" because Ford has ALOT of "extra fuel" in the base fuel table, and using the C&L meter you are leaning out the stock fuel by a large margin.
ALL is fine IF the car's fuel system and engine management is "up to snuff".
But if you have a weak fuel pump, you all of a sudden dont have ANY EXTRA FUEL and this leaning out of the fuel mixture causes the "loud detonation" that you are hearing.
If I were you, and trust me I have been down this very path.
I would QUICKLY ditch that MAF back on EBAY while there is still a chance that it will SELL.
The more people that realize what that meter is doing, the less chance you will have to "ditch that b*tch" on Ebay.
I "had" the same meter on my car for about 100,000 miles..and was pleasantly suprised by the .3 tenths my car instantly picked up when I removed it and went BACK to the stock air box.
"just say no to a larger maf", especially an "aftermarket maf that lies to your PCM"
Stock Maf voltage at WOT is between 4 and 4.99 volts
On my car with the C&L meter WOT voltage was 2 volts.
I literally lost HALF of my maf resolution, and my PCM's ability to "control fuel" by that very ill thought out mod.
I blame myself for not listening to Jerry back in 2000 when he said "dont use the C&L MAF" on the mark 8..especially in a N/A application.
He suggests using the LMAF in the event you actually NEED a bigger MAF such as in a forced induction scenario.
But.. "I was too smart to listen" and I wasted alot of money due to that fact.
On my car with the C&L meter WOT voltage was 2 volts.
I literally lost HALF of my maf resolution, and my PCM's ability to "control fuel" by that very ill thought out mod.
I blame myself for not listening to Jerry back in 2000 when he said "dont use the C&L MAF" on the mark 8..especially in a N/A application.
He suggests using the LMAF in the event you actually NEED a bigger MAF such as in a forced induction scenario.
But.. "I was too smart to listen" and I wasted alot of money due to that fact.
Cbecker1994Vlll
Well-Known LVC Member
I know what boost is. Its manifold pressure...this isn't my first supercharged or even turbo car. I know we could have pulley swapped to 18 lbs and ran alot faster. I think it did almost 62 rwhp more at 18lbs. My injectors were running 117% duty cycle at that though so we backed back down to 15. but any ways I now what boost is, one of the first questions I always seem to get is "How much boost you runnin." so i just posted it with the sig. and the question always seems to come from the damn ricers.
Believe me if I had a scanner the dyno sheets would have been posted. For the past year or so I have been really wanting to post the dyno of the bone stock mark and the final results after the dyno tune.
Stock air box actually helped torque down low but lost in the top end horspower compaired to the Cone. I'll go dig the sheet up and see if I can find some one to scan it for me...
The reason we did the comparison is because when I installed the maf/cone it felt like it lost something. and it did it lost a little bit of low end torque. but the top end gains made up for it
Cbecker1994Vlll
Well-Known LVC Member
Mine ran the same voltage with the stock maf and the C&L.. maybe my car is just wierd like that.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
I will say this... if a shop knows how to tune a Mustang that doesn't mean they know how to tune a Mark VIII... same long block as a 96-98 Cobra Stang, but that is the only similarity....
Another thing with Mafs... Ford spent a lot of time designing a MAF to do its job properly and give good data to the PCM... that bar the is in the center of the MAF wasn't put there for :q:q:q:qs and giggles, or to impede flow....
Another thing with Mafs... Ford spent a lot of time designing a MAF to do its job properly and give good data to the PCM... that bar the is in the center of the MAF wasn't put there for :q:q:q:qs and giggles, or to impede flow....
turn_on68
Dedicated LVC Member
WTF is "the takeing out the grandpa shift"????
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
You can take a lot of the grandpa out of the Mark in general... when Ford designed and built the car they were well aware that the target buying was an older demographic... so they added a lot of tuning to make the car suitable to be driven by the elderly...
As you get older you motor skills get a little fuzzy, so you have less finite control over things like the gas pedal...
Knowing this Ford put into the tuning that during tip in throttle a considerable amount of timing is pulled effectively reducing the engines power making it drive smoother even if grandpa is jerking around the pedal....
Also during shifts to achieve a lot of smoothness there is timing pulled and the shift also occurs slowly which mean slipping in your transmission... again this just equates to a smooth ride.
As you get older you motor skills get a little fuzzy, so you have less finite control over things like the gas pedal...
Knowing this Ford put into the tuning that during tip in throttle a considerable amount of timing is pulled effectively reducing the engines power making it drive smoother even if grandpa is jerking around the pedal....
Also during shifts to achieve a lot of smoothness there is timing pulled and the shift also occurs slowly which mean slipping in your transmission... again this just equates to a smooth ride.
Cbecker1994Vlll
Well-Known LVC Member
Rich88LSC
Dedicated LVC Member
I completely agree and am not argueing a dyno tune is a better way to go as far as max power gains go. However like the kid said these are not Mustangs and just because you have experience with them doesn't mean you know how to tune these cars. I wouldn't trust anyone to tune my car and on my stock car(only mods are 3500 stall and 4.10s) it's not worth about double the money and a road tip to a competitant tuner.
My point is not everyone on here has an aftermarker MAF or cams or short runner intake, etc that really should get the car on a dyno. And not everyone has a competitant tuner within a resonable driving distance. IMHO to those people the benifits are worth the price.
2002WRXSTi
Dedicated LVC Member
Well to put it somewhat bluntly I grabbed this CAI off EBAY in hopes that it would be like my past experience. Way back in 03' I got a CAI for my WRX, it made a bit of power but also let you hear the BOV on every shift.
I then swapped engines after I shattered my 2nd gear from modding the engine a bit to much. With my new engine it had a real bad hick up when you crossed a certain RPM. Took it to E-town and ran a 16sec quarter and then a 15 sec one. Did a bit of investigating and bought a CAI from APS that claimed to not change any of the voltages the ECU saw so there would be no need to tune or any such thing.
Put that thing on and it cured my stutter sneeze bog to the point I went 12.51@109 on pump gas with the AC on. Drove perfectly smooth and was even getting around 18mpg to boot
Guess it was just wish full thinking that I could get away with something that worked that good as just a bolt on deal
I then swapped engines after I shattered my 2nd gear from modding the engine a bit to much. With my new engine it had a real bad hick up when you crossed a certain RPM. Took it to E-town and ran a 16sec quarter and then a 15 sec one. Did a bit of investigating and bought a CAI from APS that claimed to not change any of the voltages the ECU saw so there would be no need to tune or any such thing.
Put that thing on and it cured my stutter sneeze bog to the point I went 12.51@109 on pump gas with the AC on. Drove perfectly smooth and was even getting around 18mpg to boot
Guess it was just wish full thinking that I could get away with something that worked that good as just a bolt on deal
Cbecker1994Vlll
Well-Known LVC Member
i guess up here in kc we just got good dyno people and a couple of different choices.
I will not argue that fact you should only let some one that is experianced at tuning touch your car.
you know if the maf works for you good if it doesn't :q:q:q:q it and don't use it right?
I will not argue that fact you should only let some one that is experianced at tuning touch your car.
you know if the maf works for you good if it doesn't :q:q:q:q it and don't use it right?