1. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    God said, "I Am". I could go on at great length concerning this, but it'll be better if you research for yourself. You might start with Exodus 3: 13-15

    KS
     
  2. hrmwrm

    hrmwrm Dedicated LVC Member

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    you expect me to read a piece of fiction to prove your superstition? i believe that brings me back to this.
    302943_337355786367435_962360784_n.jpg
    and i'm not being condescending, but seriously, reading a book proves nothing. you have something more tangible?
    (besides, your section when read states nothing about his origins)
     
  3. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    " ---from the beginning, I AM".

    You are so determined to be autonomous you simply have a closed mind.

    I wish you well.

    KS
     
  4. hrmwrm

    hrmwrm Dedicated LVC Member

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    my mind is closed? i ask you to prove yours. why would i believe it any more than any other religion?
    I AM is your evidence? of what?
    it answers nothing. hell, I AM too. says nothing of how i started.
    sounds like an easy out for an impossible question.
    i wish you well too ks.
    my mind is open to anything you can prove. god's law, prove god.
     
  5. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    The essence of faith is that you must make the leap. Your unwillingness to accept possibilities is at the heart of our disagreement. I don't pretend to have all the answers. What I DO know is this:

    If what I believe was to turn out to be inaccurate in any significant way, I'll simply have lived a life in which I tried to do the best I could. With God's help.
    If you reject God and I turn out to be right, you're lost forever.

    'Agnostic' as it's often defined is saying that it's not possible to know.
    Agnostic comes from 'Gnostic', One who knows.
    I define myself, in some very real ways as 'not knowing' which is quite different than the above, and therefore I strive every day to know a little more. That's, to me, a much more accurate definition of agnostic.

    When one is willing to accept help and guidance one has a much greater chance of making it through, no matter what the topic of conversation might be.

    I wish you well.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2015
  6. hrmwrm

    hrmwrm Dedicated LVC Member

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    you are wrong ken. i accept any possibility. i just ask for something to show it's validity. i don't own bridges or swampland. ;)

    i accept help and guidance on many things.
    and i don't pretend to know all the answers either. as i said before, the truth is we don't know.
    but i don't see anything to lead me to believe in the supernatural either. i do see we are made of stardust. everything for life is in space.
    and are we specially made? i would think we would be made of something different than all other forms of life if we were specially created. yet we aren't. we don't even have the most chromosones.

    so, ken, i'd have to see some evidence of your belief before i'd jump in. or any belief, see, i'm more opened minded than you. you've already chosen something.
    (besides, i'd have to abondon critical thinking to become religious, and that's not going to happen)

    edit: one final thing. if there is only 1 true god, why are there so many tomes?
    some are similar, but some are very different. i'd think if there were 1 TRUE god, there would only be 1 true story. not thousands.
     
  7. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    Because you don't know, you reject? The very definition of faith is to accept without any necessity for proof.

    You demand evidence of my belief---I simply state that I believe.

    I'm puzzled about your reference to 'tomes'. A 'tome' is a book, by definition. There are, and have been, a plethora of men who have gone to the uttermost outer fringes instead of simply accepting, 'I Am'. And some of them have written books.

    If I'm wrong, I've had a good life. If you're wrong you'll have all eternity to wish you'd bowed your head instead of offering raucous defiance.

    I wish you well.

    KS
     
  8. hrmwrm

    hrmwrm Dedicated LVC Member

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    tomes are books. and most aren't christian scripture. egyptian, babylonian, hindu, budhist, greek, roman, the list is endless.
    as i said, if yours is the one true god, where did the others come from?
    it was twice the only people around only had 1 belief.
    yet if you go through history, many are there before the basis of yours, of course your particular flavour coming almost the last of all.
    you do realize that the threat of the rest of eternity is what keeps you believing.
    but, hey, i'm having a great and enjoyable life myself. even knowing at the end, it's done.
    as you age, there comes a time to give up your imaginary freinds.
    i wish you well.
     
  9. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    Worm, I may well be twice your age; I know about aging. And my beliefs, although maturing, haven't changed significantly since I was 18 years old. What keeps me believing is 'the wonder of it all'.

    I'm sure we'll continue to go on about this.

    KS
     
  10. hrmwrm

    hrmwrm Dedicated LVC Member

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    you're 106?

    mine are the same since i can remember.

    i wonder about all of it too ks. which is why i follow about discoveries in space and science. the people actually trying to find EVIDENCE of what happened. i don't have much faith in ancient fiction. no matter who's story it is.
     
  11. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    Just as you can't see the wind but you can see the effects, so, if you accept the possibilities, you can 'see' God. Some people (you?) will go to the outermost limits of unreasonableness to avoid acknowledgement.

    C. S. Lewis said something along the line of, "When I was an Atheist, there were times when believing made perfect sense. And now that I'm a believer there times when my belief seems very unlikely."

    The Good Book talks of 'faith as a grain of mustard seed'. I've looked and a grain of mustard seed is almost infinitesimally small. I can, even at my lowest, muster that much. I'd wish the same for you.

    KS
     
  12. hrmwrm

    hrmwrm Dedicated LVC Member

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    i can also measure a volume of wind and seperate it into it's respective different gases.
    there is nothing you can show me to "see" god. except maybe if i was on the same hallucinogenics as you.

    enjoy life ks.
     
  13. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

    Your reply is meaningless noise as a response to my last comment.

    God loves you anyway.

    KS
     
  14. Dranoel_Dragon

    Dranoel_Dragon LVC Member

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    I have a better question for you: If there is only ONE true god, why are all religions prior to Abraham POLYthiestic? It was not 'til Abraham decided to invent his own god that monotheism was ever heard of.
     
  15. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    If one goes back far enough, it was common for a big rock or the ocean to be thought divine. Then the local chief declared himself to be a god.

    What does all that have to do with anything? The One God created it all.

    KS
     
  16. Dranoel_Dragon

    Dranoel_Dragon LVC Member

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    Some people would rather would rather believe a book written by a biased international committee, at the behest of an atheist, over the course of 300 years, beginning 700 years after the most recent events in said book and translated from 3 dead languages, than believe one page of any of 1000 books based on solid evidence and cold hard facts.

    Which definition would you say that falls under?
     
  17. Dranoel_Dragon

    Dranoel_Dragon LVC Member

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    Of course, when it comes right down to it....

    christianit.jpg
     
  18. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    Dribble on.

    KS
     
  19. hrmwrm

    hrmwrm Dedicated LVC Member

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    obtuse? find better analogies. wind has measureable properties. and if your god works the way you say, it should have measurable properties as well.
    show me some of these, otherwise your analogy is meaningless.
    god loves me is also meaningless. you may as well say the flying spaghetti moster loves me. it means the same thing. nothing.
     
  20. hrmwrm

    hrmwrm Dedicated LVC Member

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    i suggest you look up monotheistic history.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism
    abrahamic religions are just some of the latest.
     
  21. hrmwrm

    hrmwrm Dedicated LVC Member

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    you do realize that what you say is contradictive. if you go back far enough, people should only have believed in the 1 god, as that is the story of the only population twice. (according to your bible story)
    yet your statement says that the god story came after. strange YOU would think that.
     
  22. cammerfe

    cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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    Merry Christmas to you.

    KS
     

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