G.W. Bush service documents

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barry2952

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The White House says that the documents that show that G.W. Bush shirked his responsibility are a fraud because of a superscript "th" used in the document.

Their contention that this could only be a computer generated document is hogwash. I used a Selectric II typwriter in the '80s that had a ball that included superscript.

Check out this web site:

IBM Selectric

"* The Selectric II had a lever (above the right platen knob) that would allow the platen to be turned freely but return to the same vertical line (for inserting such symbols as subscripts and superscripts), whereas the Selectric I did not. "

Barry

Mark II convertible
 
Man, Oh, Man, Oh Man. When will the madness stop.

CBS News is a fraud, Kerry is a fraud. I think that the 40% of the Country that supports Kerry are in denial and proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that people on the left will vote for anybody with a (D) next to their name, and will ignore everything else. Tough language for sure, but I am tired of all the press coverage on Bush's service. He has been the President for 4 years now. We can all judge his fitness to serve based on this record. Kerry, on the otherhand, has not served yet and should be scrutinized way more intensely.

More than half a dozen document experts contacted by ABC News said they had doubts about the memos' authenticity.

"These documents do not appear to have been the result of technology that was available in 1972 and 1973," said Bill Flynn, one of country's top authorities on document authentication. "The cumulative evidence that's available … indicates that these documents were produced on a computer, not a typewriter:"

Among the points Flynn and other experts noted:

aquadot.gif
The memos were written using a proportional typeface, where letters take up variable space according to their size, rather than fixed-pitch typeface used on typewriters, where each letter is allotted the same space. Proportional typefaces are available only on computers or on very high-end typewriters that were unlikely to be used by the National Guard.

aquadot.gif
The memos include superscript, i.e. the "th" in "187th" appears above the line in a smaller font. Superscript was not available on typewriters.

aquadot.gif
The memos included "curly" apostrophes rather than straight apostrophes found on typewriters.

aquadot.gif
The font used in the memos is Times Roman, which was in use for printing but not in typewriters. The Haas Atlas — the bible of fonts — does not list Times Roman as an available font for typewriters.

aquadot.gif
The vertical spacing used in the memos, measured at 13 points, was not available in typewriters, and only became possible with the advent of computers.
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Burn, Kerry, Burn. Everybody knows the Democrats were behind this deception to destroy the good name of one of our Country's greatest Presidents.
 
Here, read this beauty. Pay attention to the last line.

Washington Prowler

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7096

By The Prowler

Published 9/10/2004 12:09:06 AM

More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian.

The oppo researcher claimed the source was "a retired military officer." According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the DNC, as well as the Kerry campaign.

"More than a couple people heard about the papers," says the DNC staffer. "I've heard that they ended up with the Kerry campaign, for them to decide to how to proceed, and presumably they were handed over to 60 Minutes, which used them the other night. But I know this much. When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity."

The concerns arose from the sourcing. "It wasn't clear that our source for the documents would have had access to them. Our person couldn't confirm from what file, from what original source they came from."

The documents that CBS News used were not documents from any of Bush's personnel files from his time in the National Guard. Rather, CBS News stated that they were documents uncovered in the personnel files of Killian. That would explain why the White House or the Pentagon had never before released or even seen them.

According to a Kerry campaign source, there was little gossip about the supposedly hot documents inside the office of the campaign on McPherson Square. "Those documents were not something anyone was talking about or trying to generate buzz on," says the staffer. "It wasn't like there were small groups of people talking about this as a bombshell. I think people here weren't sure what to make of it, because provenance of these documents was uncertain."

A CBS producer, who initially tipped off The Prowler about the 60 Minutes story, says that despite seeking professional assurances that the documents were legitimate, there was uncertainty even among the group of producers and researchers working on the story.

"The problem was we had one set of documents from Bush's file that had Killian calling Bush 'an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot.' And someone who Killian said 'performed in an outstanding manner.' Then you have these new documents and the tone and content are so different."

The CBS producer said that some alarms bells went off last week when the signatures and initials of Killian on the documents in hand did not match up with other documents available on the public record, but producers chose to move ahead with the story. "This was too hot not to push. If there were doubts, those people didn't show it," says the producer, who works on a rival CBS News program.

Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign. "There is a school of thought here that the Kerry people dumped this in our laps, figuring we'd do the heavy lifting on the story. That maybe they had doubts about these documents but hoped we'd get more information," says the producer. "If that's the case, then we're bigger fools than we already appear to be judging by all the chatter about how these documents could be forgeries."

ABC News' political unit held a conference call at 7:00 p.m. Thursday evening to discuss the memo and its potential ramifications should the documents turn out to be a forgery. That meeting took place around the time that the deceased Killian's son made public statements questioning the documents' authenticity.

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, [emphasis added] who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.



 
That article is just wrong. Superscript was available on typewriters of that era. I'm not saying one way or another whether the documents are real or not. I would suggest a closer examination of the other memos written by his superior to determine if Superscript was used. I believe you are blindly coming to the President's defense on this issue. I believe that the President's service record is a legitimate election issue.
 
barry2952 said:
That article is just wrong. Superscript was available on typewriters of that era. I'm not saying one way or another whether the documents are real or not. I would suggest a closer examination of the other memos written by his superior to determine if Superscript was used. I believe you are blindly coming to the President's defense on this issue. I believe that the President's service record is a legitimate election issue.
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I respectfully disagree with you Barry. Bush was already rung through the ringer in the 2000 election. This is all rehashing.

Kerry needs to fully disclose who he is. Bush signed the 180 form, why won't Mr. Kerry? There is more to this guy than he is revealing and it scares me.

Besides the superscript issue, I also pointed out the following:

~ proportional vs fixed type-face
~ curly vs straight apostrophes
~ times-roman not available on typewriters
~ and 13 pt spacing.

I have been told you can in fact duplicate these documents on your own computer right now.
 
barry2952 said:
That article is just wrong. Superscript was available on typewriters of that era. I'm not saying one way or another whether the documents are real or not. I would suggest a closer examination of the other memos written by his superior to determine if Superscript was used. I believe you are blindly coming to the President's defense on this issue. I believe that the President's service record is a legitimate election issue.
Click to expand...

I don't know man... I heard on the radio this morning that "forensic evidence is suggesting that the documents are false". If it does turn out to be the case... then I really think this is going to hurt Kerry even more than he already is.

I just wonder why the mainstream media hasn't done a piece like this on Kerry's millitary record?!... kind of fishy
 
[ Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript — a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" — as evidence indicating forgery.

Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by 60 Minutes, she said.

"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said to the Associated Press after reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Ariz. She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software. ]

 
MonsterMark said:
Man, Oh, Man, Oh Man. When will the madness stop.

CBS News is a fraud, Kerry is a fraud. I think that the 40% of the Country that supports Kerry are in denial and proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that people on the left will vote for anybody with a (D) next to their name, and will ignore everything else. Tough language for sure, but I am tired of all the press coverage on Bush's service. He has been the President for 4 years now. We can all judge his fitness to serve based on this record. Kerry, on the otherhand, has not served yet and should be scrutinized way more intensely.

More than half a dozen document experts contacted by ABC News said they had doubts about the memos' authenticity.

"These documents do not appear to have been the result of technology that was available in 1972 and 1973," said Bill Flynn, one of country's top authorities on document authentication. "The cumulative evidence that's available … indicates that these documents were produced on a computer, not a typewriter:"

Among the points Flynn and other experts noted:

aquadot.gif
The memos were written using a proportional typeface, where letters take up variable space according to their size, rather than fixed-pitch typeface used on typewriters, where each letter is allotted the same space. Proportional typefaces are available only on computers or on very high-end typewriters that were unlikely to be used by the National Guard.

aquadot.gif
The memos include superscript, i.e. the "th" in "187th" appears above the line in a smaller font. Superscript was not available on typewriters.

aquadot.gif
The memos included "curly" apostrophes rather than straight apostrophes found on typewriters.

aquadot.gif
The font used in the memos is Times Roman, which was in use for printing but not in typewriters. The Haas Atlas — the bible of fonts — does not list Times Roman as an available font for typewriters.

aquadot.gif
The vertical spacing used in the memos, measured at 13 points, was not available in typewriters, and only became possible with the advent of computers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Burn, Kerry, Burn. Everybody knows the Democrats were behind this deception to destroy the good name of one of our Country's greatest Presidents.
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Yeah he ranks right up there with Richard Nixon!!! I guess you have a sense of humor to go with all that conservative crap! :facesjump
 
barry2952 said:
I believe you are blindly coming to the President's defense on this issue.
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My definition of a "blind" defense is saying something like "I don't believe it!" without citing or posting any supporting evidence. I'm not saying that there aren't blind supporters of Bush or Kerry out there.
 
Kbob said:
My definition of a "blind" defense is saying something like "I don't believe it!" without citing or posting any supporting evidence. I'm not saying that there aren't blind supporters of Bush or Kerry out there.
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I know you aren't speaking to me anymore, but this is a situation where the blind is trying to lead the blind. :headbang:
 
I don't have a problem. I back up everything I say with facts. I see very clearly. No blind spots on this guy.
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Too bad I am going to have to waste another night watching all this craziness. It is going to be fun watching the Kerry supporters and Dems squirm.
 
MonsterMark said:
I don't have a problem. I back up everything I say with facts. I see very clearly. No blind spots on this guy.
icon12.gif


Too bad I am going to have to waste another night watching all this craziness. It is going to be fun watching the Kerry supporters and Dems squirm.
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I gotta hand it to you Monster, you do come with facts? :tmi:
 
Joey, things are cool. I'm having a blast. How 'bout you guys?

Nothing like a little :Fa little argue2 and a little :bash: to make a guys day. :rolleyes:
 
MonsterMark said:
Joey, things are cool. I'm having a blast. How 'bout you guys?

Nothing like a little :Fa little argue2 and a little :bash: to make a guys day. :rolleyes:
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Agreed - just reminding people - we are all friends here - even if I have to come to your houses with the LVC Mafia. :)
 
Joeychgo said:
Agreed - just reminding people - we are all friends here - even if I have to come to your houses with the LVC Mafia. :)
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In the words of a famous American citizen, "Can't we all just get along?" :Beer
 
Joeychgo said:
Agreed - just reminding people - we are all friends here - even if I have to come to your houses with the LVC Mafia. :)
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If you come by my house, bring one un-named Lincoln owner from California with you. I'd love to teach him the consequences of unjustly calling someone a liar.
 
Kbob said:
If you come by my house, bring one un-named Lincoln owner from California with you. I'd love to teach him the consequences of unjustly calling someone a liar.
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Gee!!! Did I unjustly call you a liar? I am truly sorry if I did. :gr_hail:
 
Sensitive, yes. Necessary, yes. We need to be able to see and hear ALL sides of an issue to make an informed decision. I argue my points as passionately as I can without offending (hopefully) so that others may somehow benefit and the dialogue will be opened to more people, (which is a very good thing). There is nothing I despise more than an un-informed, under-informed voter. Peace.
 
MonsterMark said:
Sensitive, yes. Necessary, yes. We need to be able to see and hear ALL sides of an issue to make an informed decision. I argue my points as passionately as I can without offending (hopefully) so that others may somehow benefit and the dialogue will be opened to more people, (which is a very good thing). There is nothing I despise more than an un-informed, under-informed voter. Peace.
Click to expand...
I also argue my points as passionately as I can without offending. I also despise an un-informed, under-informed voter. I also recognize :bsflag: when I hear it. Peace :Beer
 
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