This topic is just like politics and religion... but I want to share some real information and those that wish to beat on me so be it.
This thread is riddled with misinformation. Get this out of the way, I am a valvoline fan and that started 25 years ago before I got into the business I am in now... no good reason I just am.
There is science and math but once you think about it a bit you don't need to be a scientist or chemist, unless you want to get crazy technical and start brewing or blending your own oil.
1% of the oil extracted is used for oil(engine, trans, hydraulic and so on), the rest is gas, diesel, plastic and so on.
A couple of things oil contains - Detergent, is exactly that, soap per say. Dispercent takes the dirt and suspends it in the oil so it can be carried away, preferably to the filter. Antioxidants help raise the burn point of oil. A few more I will save for another day.
Zinc... stink who cares. It is over rated for the most part. Not saying g it is not important but in a modern passenger car light truck engine there are many alternatives. Diesel engines have a real need much different mechanical need.
Additives in most all cases create more liability than they protect. Kinda hard to explain in less than 2000 words. Let's look at the financial aspect. Take $15 in conventional oil and add a $20 additive. You would be better off with $35. If you put additives in $35 Oil you should be shot. You have ruined that jug of Mobil1 ($28 actually). Oil is like a cocktail or beer, there is only so much room in the glass and each drink has their own recipe. If I make a long Island ice tea and add the wrong amount of any of the contents it will taste like crap, still get drunk... not if it is too much cola and the booze runs out of the glass! Oil the same way, there is only so much molecule room.
Pennzoil WAS a paraffin based oil way back and went to crude base in the mid to late 80's but it was too late, the damage to their reputation was already done. Specifically the sluding, no such thing as tar oil... modern day anyway. Pennzoil is the number one household prefered brand globally for conventional oil, Valvoline number 2 ...Quaker 3 ... the rest of the shares are to small to matter. Synthetics...Mobile1 has the largest share of popularity over Pennzoil by about 12%.... then comes Valvoline. After that it doesnt matter all the pieces are pretty small. Mobil1 has lost significant share over the last 4 years.
Some general facts about synthetics and conventionals regardless of brand.
"W" stands for winter not weight...
Conventional starts to burn @160 degrees, they call that oxidation. Oxidation is the yellow and brown stuff on the bottom of your valve covers, timing covers and oil pan. Synthetics do the same @ 250 degrees. Hence the reason for keeping engine AND transmission oil cool. Example for you... my old ford super duty trans ran around 160-180. My 2011 runs at 192-200 and ford likes it that way. This leads to reasoning for synthetic transfluid. You can Google and find the rate of protection degrading above these temperatures. Something like conventional hits 200 you have 10%.
Synthetics handle extremes better than conventional, hot and cold. The average car on an average day is not going to care that much. You want 200Kmiles..? Change your oil regularly and do not over heat, run hot or extend your intervals ..use good products. I have owned over 10 ford with 200k on them. No engine problems. Blah ... blah everyone has a story... I have mine
Oil weight is tied to protection but is also tied to the work it performs. Put 10w30 in your OHC engine with VVT. You WILL eventually have a drive ability problem, especially in colder climates. I am not saying engine failure because that is a long term thing. The oil is also hydraulic fluid and performs work. Old days the work was simply to pump up a lifter. Now we pump lifters, push chain tentioners and adjust your valve timing. Too heavy of oil will effect the way this work is performed. The flow rate... If you need a case study I can provide a little...
Mobile1 is not that great. I am not saying it is bad, it is not worth what they charge for it. Value proposition. Mobil has a lot of OEM fills, likely more than anyone else. I have worked with various automotive OEMS over the years in various ways. The decisions they make for suppliers is not always related to best price or best product, the biggest is the relatonship. It is more personal and service related than the for mentioned. Remember I am a valvoline guy for no good reason.... Pennzoil Platinum has better protection and keeps the internals cleaner. Dont take my word for it. I can't give you my information but you can find it if you really care.
Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker Platinum are the same, different bottle... not the same for the rest of the product line though.
Love it or hate it but this stuff is true. I have nothing to gain or lose by sharing. I have learned a lot from this place and it is the least I can do to help pay it forward....
Have a Merry Christmas....
This thread is riddled with misinformation. Get this out of the way, I am a valvoline fan and that started 25 years ago before I got into the business I am in now... no good reason I just am.
There is science and math but once you think about it a bit you don't need to be a scientist or chemist, unless you want to get crazy technical and start brewing or blending your own oil.
1% of the oil extracted is used for oil(engine, trans, hydraulic and so on), the rest is gas, diesel, plastic and so on.
A couple of things oil contains - Detergent, is exactly that, soap per say. Dispercent takes the dirt and suspends it in the oil so it can be carried away, preferably to the filter. Antioxidants help raise the burn point of oil. A few more I will save for another day.
Zinc... stink who cares. It is over rated for the most part. Not saying g it is not important but in a modern passenger car light truck engine there are many alternatives. Diesel engines have a real need much different mechanical need.
Additives in most all cases create more liability than they protect. Kinda hard to explain in less than 2000 words. Let's look at the financial aspect. Take $15 in conventional oil and add a $20 additive. You would be better off with $35. If you put additives in $35 Oil you should be shot. You have ruined that jug of Mobil1 ($28 actually). Oil is like a cocktail or beer, there is only so much room in the glass and each drink has their own recipe. If I make a long Island ice tea and add the wrong amount of any of the contents it will taste like crap, still get drunk... not if it is too much cola and the booze runs out of the glass! Oil the same way, there is only so much molecule room.
Pennzoil WAS a paraffin based oil way back and went to crude base in the mid to late 80's but it was too late, the damage to their reputation was already done. Specifically the sluding, no such thing as tar oil... modern day anyway. Pennzoil is the number one household prefered brand globally for conventional oil, Valvoline number 2 ...Quaker 3 ... the rest of the shares are to small to matter. Synthetics...Mobile1 has the largest share of popularity over Pennzoil by about 12%.... then comes Valvoline. After that it doesnt matter all the pieces are pretty small. Mobil1 has lost significant share over the last 4 years.
Some general facts about synthetics and conventionals regardless of brand.
"W" stands for winter not weight...
Conventional starts to burn @160 degrees, they call that oxidation. Oxidation is the yellow and brown stuff on the bottom of your valve covers, timing covers and oil pan. Synthetics do the same @ 250 degrees. Hence the reason for keeping engine AND transmission oil cool. Example for you... my old ford super duty trans ran around 160-180. My 2011 runs at 192-200 and ford likes it that way. This leads to reasoning for synthetic transfluid. You can Google and find the rate of protection degrading above these temperatures. Something like conventional hits 200 you have 10%.
Synthetics handle extremes better than conventional, hot and cold. The average car on an average day is not going to care that much. You want 200Kmiles..? Change your oil regularly and do not over heat, run hot or extend your intervals ..use good products. I have owned over 10 ford with 200k on them. No engine problems. Blah ... blah everyone has a story... I have mine
Oil weight is tied to protection but is also tied to the work it performs. Put 10w30 in your OHC engine with VVT. You WILL eventually have a drive ability problem, especially in colder climates. I am not saying engine failure because that is a long term thing. The oil is also hydraulic fluid and performs work. Old days the work was simply to pump up a lifter. Now we pump lifters, push chain tentioners and adjust your valve timing. Too heavy of oil will effect the way this work is performed. The flow rate... If you need a case study I can provide a little...
Mobile1 is not that great. I am not saying it is bad, it is not worth what they charge for it. Value proposition. Mobil has a lot of OEM fills, likely more than anyone else. I have worked with various automotive OEMS over the years in various ways. The decisions they make for suppliers is not always related to best price or best product, the biggest is the relatonship. It is more personal and service related than the for mentioned. Remember I am a valvoline guy for no good reason.... Pennzoil Platinum has better protection and keeps the internals cleaner. Dont take my word for it. I can't give you my information but you can find it if you really care.
Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker Platinum are the same, different bottle... not the same for the rest of the product line though.
Love it or hate it but this stuff is true. I have nothing to gain or lose by sharing. I have learned a lot from this place and it is the least I can do to help pay it forward....
Have a Merry Christmas....
