F Me! Power Steering Pressure Line a $#$@$!

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rugger33

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Just got it back together; reasonably mechanically inclined but this has been one of the most time consuming things I've ever done on this car (including the PCV valve).

I will do a write up when I get over it; took a few pictures along the way but almost gave up. Couldn't get the bolt out of the bottom of the pump! Couldn't get a flare wrench on it because of a bracket on the pump and couldn't take the pump off either. On my last effort, I pulled out the trusty vise grips and gave it all I had and it broke free.

Almost as much fun trying to route the cumbersome piece of crap back in.

Good times; almost 9 hours this weekend so far. Still have to bleed it; wish me luck.
 
Right there behind ya Rugger. I was replacing my A/C compressor sunday and my P/S hard line at the fitting at the P/S pump I think either got tweaked and is now leaking or was leaking. Looks like i'll be replacing the P/S Pressure line now as well.


See my picture and post here: http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=64662

Was your A/C compressor installed when you changed your line? Be interested in how your went since I'll doing mine now (have no car either).
Where did you end up buying your Power steering line from (Dealer, etc)?
 
My compressor was still in the car. That added to the fun as their were two points from an electrical connector on it that exert constant pressure on your arm as you attempt to get leverage:) Feels like somebody is stabbing you slowly.

Looking at your picture, yours might be a tad bit easier (either you have a Gen 2 or a V8) as you will probably be able to get a 18MM flare wrench on yours. Mine had a bracket right at the flare nut into the pump the prevented me from getting a flare wrench on it. In the end, it was a small set of vise grips that set me free.

I bought the line at Rock Auto. Was a perfect fit. I saw your ? regarding whether the line should move freely and I wondered the same thing but yes; it is designed to spin. Interestingly enough, it's just a small plastic gasket there, not sure how it all works with the pressure the system generates but no leaks so far...

If you have the V6, let me know and I will send the service manual printouts to you. The have an indispensable tip about how to pull the thing out (in short, pull from the bottom between the radiator cross mounts and oil pan). It doesn't look like it a first but it is the only way you could do it.


Good luck.
 
Thanks for all the helpful info. I have a 2000 LS V8 as you guessed. I'll probably have to get line locally instead of from Rock Auto since i need to get this thing running quickly (only vehicle)!
 
As far as the 18mm flare wrench goes, i will get one and try it but i think it might be almost impossible to use it due to the Pully location. Even with it exposed.

I'm more worried about tweaking this line again when i go to reinstall the A/C compressor. Maybe i'll have to install the compressor 1st and then install the PS line. What a pain!

Kool LS
2000 LS V8

IMG_3179 med.jpg
 
It's close. You may have to do what I did and just get a small pair of good vise grips on it. You don't reuse any of it so you don't have to worry about tearing it up. I laid there looking up for about 3 hours before I said "f it, going with the vise grips". It's so tight you almost can't get any leverage. I thought of just taking the PS pump off but the bolt blocks access to the retaining bolt so you just have to do it the hard way...
 
and when you get it put back together, don't worry if it takes a bit to get the air out of the system. I was getting nervous after about 15 minutes but it will come out.
 
I was able to get the old fitting off at the ps pump end with a 18mm flare wrench. It was accessible since I already have taken the A/C Compressor out of the way. Now I'm going to replace the PS Pressure line since it was leaking between the tubing and the fitting and i understand that rubber seal is not servicable per this info i found.

"If a leak occurs between the tubing and tube nut, replace power steering pressure hose / power steering return hose assembly.

If a leak occurs between the power steering pressure hose nut and the aluminum steering gear housing or power steering pump outlet, replace the Teflon® seal only. "
 
rugger33 said:
and when you get it put back together, don't worry if it takes a bit to get the air out of the system. I was getting nervous after about 15 minutes but it will come out.
Click to expand...

The factory manual says to vacuum bleed it. I'm sure that reduces the time required, if you have a vacuum pump and can fashion an adapter.
 
If any of you guys are REPLACING the line that is shown in the pic or any line thats hard to get the tube nut free. Just do it the easy way and break the line off at the tube nut then you can just put a socket on that and get it right off.
 
But then you wouldn't get to lay on your back for three hours with your arm crammed into an engine compartment with three inches of clearance looking for leverage!

Actually a great suggestion for those who have yet to do this....
 
What I do to make even easier is nick the line with hacksaw blade. That makes a weak spot and the line will break right off with some wiggle. Thats if I can't just cut it off.
 
Ok now I'm stuck again. On the power rack end. I can't figure out a way to get two wrenches on both the fittings. The lower fitted that goes into the rack itself needs to be held in place (it's a 19mm sized fitting). Other hard line fitting for the PS Pressure hose is a 17mm sized fitting which a flare wrench can access.

The only line i'm trying to remove is the one circled in Red. I'm thinking the only way to get this line circled in red off properly without mucking it up is to remove the other line (with the Black Arrow) that seems to be hindering access to it first. That way i can get another wrench in there to hold the lower fitting in red so it doesn't twist off.

Then, hope i can find appropriate washers for it at the Auto Parts store.

Let the good times roll!

IMG_3191 small.jpg
 
Or do what our friend right on the mark says and cut the bad line and get it out of the way, then maybe you'll have the clearance to slide a wrench on the back nut from the bottom left area and a socket on the top one?

Good luck. With the V6, this was the easiest part; just screwed in and out if you can believe that.

Told you it was a mofo!
 
Well as it turns out. I only needed this part below, not the Power steering pressure line which doesn't include this part. Had to order it through Max and got it today.

Will install it hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

Mine was definitely leaking from that point, not just turning. There is a small rubber washer in between the nut and tubing that must have got messed up/dried out.

Car Part 001.jpg
 
rugger33 said:
not sure how it all works with the pressure the system generates.
Click to expand...

If your talking about pressure in the system, the pump doesn't actually make pressure. It "flows" or moves the fluid and somewhere in the system is a valve that shuts then, when the fluid keeps moving, builds pressure. The valve could be in the high pressure line or in the rack itself..
 
FASTLLS said:
If your talking about pressure in the system, the pump doesn't actually make pressure. It "flows" or moves the fluid and somewhere in the system is a valve that shuts then, when the fluid keeps moving, builds pressure. The valve could be in the high pressure line or in the rack itself..
Click to expand...

The valves are in the rack, but the pressure builds all the way back to the pump. The hi-pressure hose out of the pump experiences high pressure.

Power Steering Pump Specs:
Flow 9.00 ± 0.75 liter/min (2.4 ± 0.2 gpm) @ 1,000 kPa (145 psi) @ 1,500 rpm
Minimum capacity 4.0 liter/min (1.0 gpm) @ 4,999 kPa (725 psi) @ 500 rpm
Relief pressure 11,197-11,997 kPa (1,624-1,740 psi)

For the curious...
http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6xb0003.htm~gen~ref.htm
 
joegr said:
The valves are in the rack, but the pressure builds all the way back to the pump. The hi-pressure hose out of the pump experiences high pressure.
Click to expand...

I kinda figured that people would know that a high pressure line would experience high pressure.. But thanks for the clarification for the people that didn't know :D
 
'02 V6 busted pump (collision). That f*cking hi-pressure line sure is a c*nt. I struggled with that mofo for hours, cursing the bracket thing behind the pump and the engineer that put the f*cking nut right next to the pulley. Then I realized that I could borrow a pulley tool from the parts store. After popping the bracket off (pull it back towards the elbow in the hose) and taking the pulley off, I was able to get a wrench (don't know if it was cheap ass wrenches, but 17mm too small, 18 too big; got 11/16 on it but had to hammer it) from the front (after removing air intake tube; manual says to take out just the middle part, but it was easier to take the whole thing off with air filter attached). When replacing the pump, you need the pulley tool anyways to put on the new one.

The manual says to access the bottom bolts from below, which is what I did, but that requires a long ass extension; it might be possible to get to those bolts blind from the top, as they are accessible if you move the reservoir. But my point is, remove the f*cking pulley if you're trying to get to the hi-pressure line.
 
sowberry said:
'02 V6 busted pump (collision). That f*cking hi-pressure line sure is a c*nt. I struggled with that mofo for hours, cursing the bracket thing behind the pump and the engineer that put the f*cking nut right next to the pulley. Then I realized that I could borrow a pulley tool from the parts store. After popping the bracket off (pull it back towards the elbow in the hose) and taking the pulley off, I was able to get a wrench (don't know if it was cheap ass wrenches, but 17mm too small, 18 too big; got 11/16 on it but had to hammer it) from the front (after removing air intake tube; manual says to take out just the middle part, but it was easier to take the whole thing off with air filter attached). When replacing the pump, you need the pulley tool anyways to put on the new one.

The manual says to access the bottom bolts from below, which is what I did, but that requires a long ass extension; it might be possible to get to those bolts blind from the top, as they are accessible if you move the reservoir. But my point is, remove the f*cking pulley if you're trying to get to the hi-pressure line.
Click to expand...

That's why for an hour and a half labor the dealer/independent can have the hassle. I just had the alternator replaced on my wife's '06. For the hour labor (~$90) they can deal with it!
 
joegr said:
The factory manual says to vacuum bleed it. I'm sure that reduces the time required, if you have a vacuum pump and can fashion an adapter.
Click to expand...

So I'm in this hell hole of a V6 PS fix right now myself. I took the pump out in order to get the hose nut off. Now I'm about to try to install the new high pressure hose from rockauto. It looks to be a perfect fit and for a good price. But it's going to be a bear I'm sure to replace. I need to feed it down to the crossmember area (or feed it up from there whichever works) but keep enough up in the engine bay so I can install the hose nut and the bracket onto the pump there and torque the nut. Then I'll install the pump with the hose attached. At least that's my plan. I found that if I took the top two pump bolts off then the bottom bolt could be slowly removed with an open end even with the hose and bracket installed. I plan to reinstall lower bolt first and be very careful in mounting/installing the rest of this rube goldberg hose contraption.
My questions are two - I had to rob from the hose I bought for my 5-speed LS of it's teflon washer since I had to remove the fitting at the steering rack and ruined it's washer. So at some future time, I will need to replace this washer for the 5-speed hose. There was a great tool kit of washers and o-rings from gates on rockauto a couple days ago. I came back this AM after deciding to spring for the $50 or so for the whole kit but it is now out of stock. Grrr. So anyone know where this gates 348495 kit might be avail? I have searched the net. OR if anyone has a couple of these white teflon washers they would part with, please let me know or if anyone knows where I could just get the washer.
Anyway the other question is bleeding the PS unit once I get it back together. Can someone point to a procedure on doing this? Bleeding brakes and steering and stuff is not something I have any experience doing.


Thanks


George
 
OK, thanks. Buying that stuff is necessary or ... avail at dealer or maybe rockauto. I'll look there. Pretty soon I'll be able to open an auto repair biz with all the tools I've purchased!!
 
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