ETC failsafe: P2107/P2106/P2105 - No misfire

Lincoln LS

  1. lincoln_zero

    lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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    One thing I dont get - if we assume for a moment that the issue is a bad seal from whack job work, that's not something thats affected by the tune. If that were an issue, why wouldn't it fail safe with stock?
     
  2. AmsterDutch

    AmsterDutch Dedicated LVC Member

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  3. AmsterDutch

    AmsterDutch Dedicated LVC Member

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    Rear lower control arms more than likely...check bushings
     
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    • 04_Sport_LS

      04_Sport_LS Dedicated LVC Member

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      Most of the issues you have had... are common on the LS... but most of them seem to occur at higher miles. Though age can be an issue too.

      I just checked Rock Auto... and they have Motorcraft injectors for $50 U.S. I don't remember the year of yours... so I used my 2004 as a reference.

      If that repair shop has done all the previous work, (and they seemed to do a better job of messing the car up), ... then I would definitely say that if they worked on the cooling system... that they screwed something up with the intake manifold and/or gasket.

      Check to make sure all the bolts are installed and torqued properly. Hopefully they didn't snap one off in the 5-6 area and just silicone the manifold.

      While Ford recommends a "smoke test" to check for vacuum leaks... you could try spraying carb cleaner in the 5-6 area... and see if the idle speed changes. That would indicate gasket or intake leak. Just keep in mind that carb cleaner is flammable. Mass Air Flow cleaner would work too.

      As far as your squeak in back... that is most likely a lower control arm... and probably the drivers side..
      since it tends to go first. You will probably want to check the spring closely too... since they sometimes crack/break at the bottom.

      Lastly... does Carfax show this LS as crossing the border from the U.S. to Canada?
       
    • 04_Sport_LS

      04_Sport_LS Dedicated LVC Member

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      As an afterthought, (since the shop seems to like to butcher wiring harnesses), you might want to trace the harness for the coils and injectors... all the way back to the PCM. That includes checking the connectors for corrosion and broken pins.
       
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      • AmsterDutch

        AmsterDutch Dedicated LVC Member

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        I have never had a smoke test done on any of my LSes but I actually believe/trust FORD with this decision/suggestion that a smoke test is the proper way to go about finding an air leak in the system ;)
         
      • mkc

        mkc LVC Member

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        I've had my LS smoked twice. It wasn't terribly expensive and it did point to the exact location of a very tiny leak that would have been impossible to find without "follow the smoke".
         
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        • lincoln_zero

          lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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          Just an update:

          Coils came in. Put brand new NGK Platinums, brand new Accel coils. Reversed the terminals. See Pic! Looks nice.
          Initial start revealed misfires on: Cyl 5,6,1,3. But 1 misfire a piece, and thats been it for the whole day. Engine warmed, I drove through town, punched it all over the place - 0 msifires. Drove over 1 hours, still no misfires, no failsafe. Running well.

          Drove to my buddys. Chilled out for a bit. Midnight came, cars nice and cool, I left. On the way home, I got the music turned up. Turn left, and aggressively accelerate BOOM FAILSAFE. There she is! Rearing her ugly pathetic head. Engine reduced 50%.
          Pull over.
          Scan with mode 6, NO MISFIRE. Only codes in my system under PCM are: P2105-FF, P2106-FF, P2106-C

          Press reset on dash board, restart the car. Driving along, make a turn. Go harder on the gas, BOOM FAILSAFE - engine cut 50%. Pull over and scan, NO MISFIRE.

          Ok.
          So 04_Sport_LS suggests I do a smoke test, or spray some carb cleaner to see if there is a leak. I will try that when I have time this week. I still have that spare throttlebody and brand new seal from Ford I am gonna try an put on. Why not, I already have it. Might as well.

          Side note, can a failing diode on the alternator cause the car to failsafe without any specific DTC'S? Perhaps the plugs aren't getting enough juice?
          This is only happening with the tune.

          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          I still have a persistent issue that hasn't been addressed. And that is, my SLOW up rev. I've mentioned it before, no one seems to know whats up. This LS would not rev over 2500rpm PRIOR to the throttle body cleaning a mechanic did. I'd have the pedal to the floor for 5 to 8 seconds before it would climb over 3k rpm. Post cleaning, it now revs right up to 6k, but it STILL slowly revs from idle to 3000 rpm (take about 1.5 seconds to get passed 3k), once past 3k it quickly revs to 6k.
          Why is it that after the throttle body has been cleaned by the mechanic, the revs are quicker?

          ---------------
          Photo:

          Ls accel.jpeg
           
        • 04_Sport_LS

          04_Sport_LS Dedicated LVC Member

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          The 3000 RPM limit in park and neutral is normal. Rev limiter.

          If the carb cleaner doesn't reveal a vacuum leak... then you might want to think about sending out your PCM for testing. SAI, (or SIA), is the name of the place to send it to.

          Joegr knows more about it and could provide a link... or you could search the forum.

          Forgot you had a new throttle body. While that is probably not the issue... It would probably be best to swap it in anyway... and I would get a new gakset.
           
        • lincoln_zero

          lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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          Its not the Rev limiter that I'm talking about. I am tuned, my rev limiter is 6500 RPM. Its a slow rev from idle up to 3000 rpm. When I throw the pedal to the floor, there is about 1.5 second creep up time. Once the rpm passes about 3000 rpm, it then flies right up to 6500 rpm quickly. And when I say quickly, I mean normally, like a first Gen LS, like a Toyota Rav 4, like a GMC Savana, like every other freaking normal engine on this planet.

          However, unlike the First Gen LS, which Revs up quickly, MY LS seems to delay the rev up.
          When I bought it, this was a WORSE problem. It would take over 5 seconds to reach 3,000 RPM.

          A mechanic cleaned the throttle body, and the rev is better now. But there is still a delay. Instead of being over 5 seconds, its about 1.5 or 2 seconds of slow rev time from idle to 3000 rpm.

          I am thinking it could be the computer now at this point. But if it were, why the hell isn't it saying misfire? Everything I have read on here for a bad PCM, is that it phantom misfires, showing misfires because the PCM thinks there's one; you still get DTC's. Also, shouldn't it be going into failsafe with STOCK tuning?

          I have a new throttle body gasket. I'm gonna put it on tomorrow.
          I'm gonna level with you guys. This car feels like its being choked out. Starts are slow, revs are slow, Failsafe with Tune. It feels like either not enough air is getting in, not enough fuel is getting in, or the spark is weak. Thats the best way I can describe it.


          I just dont understand the slow rev up thing. Thats NOT normal. It slow revs stock or tuned. Something is wrong there, and I don't know what is causing that.
           
        • joegr

          joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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          Revving up slowly in park/neutral with the "stock tune" is absolutely normal and intentional.
           
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          • lincoln_zero

            lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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            If I go ahead and swap the throttle body, do I need to reprogram it? Or is it swap and go?
             
          • joegr

            joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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            Swap and go. Nothing to reset or reprogram.
             
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            • lincoln_zero

              lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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              Thanks.

              Question about the MAF.
              The CEL is now on. I'm about to work on the throttle body, so I disconnected the MAF and decided to start the car, to see if the behavior changes. Notta, car runs the same with MAF disconnected.

              Can the MAF be failing and cause this issue?

              Disconnected, I got code P0113.
               
            • joegr

              joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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              Yes, MAF faults can/will also trigger ETC failsafe.
               
            • 04_Sport_LS

              04_Sport_LS Dedicated LVC Member

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              DUH!!! With all the talk about the misfires and coils... I forgot all about the MAF.:rolleyes:
               
            • AmsterDutch

              AmsterDutch Dedicated LVC Member

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              I thought we covered this in a different Thread LZ started...must have been a different guy ...that would be MISFIRE 101...always check MAF first ...for sure with the Lincoln LS...that would be nice if that is the only problem with the Failsafe...MOTORCRAFT ONLY PART!
               
            • 04_Sport_LS

              04_Sport_LS Dedicated LVC Member

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              I think you are right Dutch. Serms to me that there has been 3 different threads about this LS... over 6 months at least.

              It would have been better to keep this all in the original thread.... and much easier to reference.
               
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              • lincoln_zero

                lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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                Yes I started threads from over a year ago about this issue, but as I said earlier in this thread, winter kicked in and I got busy. But now I have the down time and have been working at it. Also, now I have Forscan.
                I do appreciate everyone help on this.

                For the MAF:
                I scanned it thoroughly, and visibly inspected it. Its not dirty nor does it fault on Forscan. I am not getting any DTC's for the MAF.

                So... Can it still actually be the MAF? Despite the lack of DTC's / faults? (please be patient with me, I'm still learning as I go).


                Duly noted. I will make this the main one until I resolve the issue.
                 
                Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
              • lincoln_zero

                lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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                What I did today:

                About 1 year ago, I picked up a throttlebody from the scraps for $150 CAD ($110 USD). It sat around, so I decided to have a go at the hack job Active Green & Ross did. Removed the glue off the wires. Replaced throttlebody. The scraps one looked much cleaner than mine and the motor side doesn't have corrosion on the cover, unlike the one my LS came with. It also came with a TPS sensor, so I guess thats 2 things replaced.
                I used a zip tie to secure the plug, as it seems to not latch in.

                Aftermath:
                I drove it for more than 1.5 hours post repair, and bringing RPM's to above 3k where it seems to trigger the failsafe. Vehicle was powered off and on between trips. It hasn't gone into failsafe. I don't hear any misfires, and its pretty smooth.
                I'll know better in the morning when the motor is completely cold - as this is where the misfire sound from the exhaust is most evident.

                Here's a pic of the thorttlebody (also I did bleed the coolant system after install and top up).

                LS new throttle body.jpeg
                 
              • 04_Sport_LS

                04_Sport_LS Dedicated LVC Member

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                Well wouldn't it be interesting if replacing the trottle body fixed the issue.

                I wonder if this code: "P2105 - Throttle Actuator Control System - Forced Engine Shutdown" was pointing to it the whole time.o_O
                 
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                • lincoln_zero

                  lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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                  35c out today, full sun, and I took her out for a spin. No failsafe. No misfire.
                  Might be too early, but I hope we nailed it fellas.
                  If not, MAF is next

                  Decided to drive it to my mechanic and get the painted rims on it. Summer tires are Firestone Firehawk Indy 500.
                  Here she is!

                  IMG-20200702-WA0003.jpeg

                  View attachment 828574408
                   
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                  • lincoln_zero

                    lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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                    Welp,

                    As It would be no surprise to anyone here, including myself, Fail-safe has returned and neither the throttlebody nor the TPS sensor was the issue (I was kind of banking on the TPS, as another LVC user said that fixed his issue).

                    I ran a live feed using Forscan, and nothing from MAF to TPS showing failures. Mode 6 scan reveals no misfire.

                    Here's all I have left:
                    On a cold start, the car starts slowly. kind of like it wants to die, but only for 1 to 2 seconds. What is the common causes to that? And can that be the issue?

                    (I may have to do a smoke test, but looking for an answer to the above first).
                     
                  • 04_Sport_LS

                    04_Sport_LS Dedicated LVC Member

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                    What codes are you still getting?
                     
                  • lincoln_zero

                    lincoln_zero Dedicated LVC Member

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                    P2105 and P2106

                    The only thing else, is that one of my trips yesterday, I saw 1 misfire on cylinder 6. But that was it. When it went into fail safe, there was no misfire logged.
                     
                    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020

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