Engine rattles on startup

[rallyusa]

As for the parts, can you direct me? Also, the belt moves about 1/4 or a 1/2 of an inch on cold starts. Just like rallyus is stating.

Even after I replaced my tensioner, I still get about a 1/4 inch of movement when I start it up in the cold (I haven't checked since it's been warm out yet), so to me this is probably normal. That combined with the fact that you removed the belt entirely and you still have the sound makes me think that your issue is not related to the accessory drive system.

FWIW the sound in the video posted sounded like internal engine noise, what it really sounds like to me is piston slap. Here's a good article on what it is: http://www.pistonslap.com/whatisit.htm

 

[stugots]

Hmm maybe.. time to sell.

 

[M4rk]

Stugots, my LS does the same thing when cold. Has done it ever since I got it, nearly 3 years now.

 

[stugots]

Stugots, my LS does the same thing when cold. Has done it ever since I got it, nearly 3 years now.

Good I'm not alone. Ever look into it?

 

[M4rk]

Good I'm not alone. Ever look into it?

Nope. Didn't find it problematic and I just attributed it to how this car runs. It just doesn't like being cold. I haven't had any issues with my motor and it runs well, so I think it's nothing to worry about.

 

[rallyusa]

Hmm maybe.. time to sell.

I wouldn't say that, it's pretty common in most cars, especially with higher miles (mine has 170K, and it has piston slap only on the coldest mornings, and only for a few seconds). You may want to go to a little thicker viscosity oil or look into getting a block heater. I don't have to worry about it much living in the Atlanta, GA suburbs, but if I lived up north, my car and my wife's car would have block heaters for sure, extreme cold can do horrible things to an engine.

 

[RCodePaul]

Telco, any news? I was convinced the sound was louder down by the starter. So I pulled my starter and bench tested it. While the thing bench tested fine, the retraction was strong, but it seemed full of brush dust. All crusty and dry. The rear bushing was really dry and the planet gears in the gear reduction were full of brush dust.
So I replaced it.
Still have the startup rattle though.
Sonofabitch.

 

[Telco]

Nope, unfortunately I don't have a lot of spare time anymore. An occasional clatter at startup is way down on the list of things to check. I get one thing off my plate, and two more fight to take its place. At the rate I'm going my LS will be gone before I find the problem.

 

[RCodePaul]

An occasional clatter at startup is way down on the list of things to check.

My clatter at startup seems totally like a "dry start" zero oil in the motor, all the oil in the pan kind of rattle. It doesn't sound like piston slap and it's just for a second or two right at startup. Mine isn't ambient temp related and mine is not way down on the list.
Wondering if there is a check valve somewhere that's failed letting all the oil drain to the pan. On an Audi site one guy said there was one in that engine in the oil filter adapter. Mine started it after an oil change so I tried several different oil filters including one from the Lincoln dealer and heavier oil viscosity.
If I crank the motor with the fp fuse removed to build oil pressure for 10 seconds or so it will start without the rattle. As posted elsewhere I've eliminated the front accessory possibility and even changed the starter and secondary tensioners.
It's a genII so the tensioners shouldn't be an issue, but you never know.

 

[RCodePaul]

Saw this in the "knocking at startup, only at startup" thread.

Seriously, the replacement of all the coils cured the problem. Nobody is bull:q:q:q:qting you when they say change your coils. I changed all of them. My car now sounds like it should have a long time ago. I bought the $109 kit off of ebay. They have a lifetime warranty.

Seriously? How in the world is that even possible? It sounds completely counter intuitive.

 

[joegr]

... and heavier oil viscosity.
...

You're going in the wrong direction. Try 0W20 oil.

I've looked in the service manual and parts drawings for the check valve, but I haven't found it. As far as I can tell, there's only a pressure bypass valve in the filter. It does seem that the check valve must be between the oil pump and the filter. It may be that it's just a feature of the oil pump design that the oil doesn't normally drain back through it.

Anyway, 0W20 will get you the quickest start-up lubrication, and so minimize the damage.

 

[Robot]

I thought I had a problem with the cam system for a while. But, I would put patroleum jelly on the serp. belt and it would mostly go away. The belt has no cracks and no glazing. Now, I have put WD-40 on the belt and there is no noise at all. I am going to replace the belt and check the pulleys after I recover from changing the DCCV.

This is what it was like before the WD-40.

Ticking noise of Lincoln LS Gen II - YouTube


This is what it is like after the WD-40.

No ticking noise of Lincoln LS Gen II after WD-40 - YouTube

 

[Telco]

That's not at all what mine sounds like, mine lasts 3-5 seconds, sounds like BBs in a tin can. I'm going to be changing the oil next week and I'll try the 0w oil when I do.

 

[RCodePaul]

Yep...

I agree on the 0-20. I'm going to go to WalMart and buy a whole mess of 0-20 Mobil 1 and see what that nets.
Thanks JoeGR for checking into the check valve whereabouts. This thing is crazy - rattles like all hell on startup, hot or cold if it sits for awhile. Runs super solid, strong, no rattles, no hiccups, pulls hard to redline, sounds fine other than the second or two on startup. Sounds horrible. Man, if I could put a prelube pump somewhere with an adapter between the oil filter and adapter I think this thing would be whipped.
When I crank it in the am with the fp fuse removed, then start it no death rattle.

 

[Robot]

I didn't know there was a 0W-40.

 

[joegr]

I didn't know there was a 0W-40.

It's one of the few BMW approved oils I can get for my 325i. Factory change interval is about 15K miles. The approved part is not so much the 0W40, as it is that it meets the LL01 spec.

 

[Telco]

Wow, think I might have a solution. Now the idler on the belt has a squeak. That occasional rattle was probably the bearings starting to go. New parts are enroute now. Hadn't heard it before, now I have a wheedle wheedle under the hood. This is something I can't put off as this car is how I get the 'ol lady to the doctor's office.

 

[Teezony]

i have the same exact rattle you describe on my girlfriends 2005 ls that i got for her ,i agree that it must be an oil problem, i use motocraft oil filters,and i also noticed that when i do the oil and filter change i usually let it drip for a while to get all the old oil out ,when i add oil and start it for the fist time it rattles worst than ever like 4 full seconds,usually its 1 or 2 seconds so it has to be an oil problem ,i was planning to switch to 0w20 synthetic and see,i just hope its not the tensioners, from all the reading i been doing it seems impossible but who knows right?it has 110000 miles ....lets keep this thread alive so we can get to the bottom of this.

 

[Telco]

Belt arrived today. When the rest of it gets here I get crackin'. Next weekend is the time change and in my neck of the woods warm weather hits 2 weeks after. Used to be the warm weather hit the same weekend, before they changed it.

 

[nicholbe]

My 2005 LS V8 is having the same problem. On a cold crank I hear a rattling noise for about 2 seconds – Then the car runs perfect. I’ve check all the pulleys, replaced the accessory belt and belt tensioner. Finally I took it to the local Lincoln dealer, and was told it was a timing chain tensioner problem (after them having the car for two days), so to avoid their high repair costs I’m going to change the tensioners this weekend, and see if this is the cause of the noise.

 

[Robot]

My 2005 LS V8 is having the same problem. On a cold crank I hear a rattling noise for about 2 seconds – Then the car runs perfect. I’ve check all the pulleys, replaced the accessory belt and belt tensioner. Finally I took it to the local Lincoln dealer, and was told it was a timing chain tensioner problem (after them having the car for two days), so to avoid their high repair costs I’m going to change the tensioners this weekend, and see if this is the cause of the noise.

If it was a timing chain tensioner, wouldn't it keep doing it? Does it sound like my video in the post above? When mine started making the noise, it would last for a few seconds and go away. Then, it got to a point where it kept doing it until I put WD40 on the belt. I still have to change the belt though.

2006 Lincoln LS in Cashmere Tri-Coat Metallic.

 

[joegr]

If it was a timing chain tensioner, wouldn't it keep doing it? ...

No, The first sign of timing tensioner failure is a rattle at cold startup that often goes away after a little bit.

It will be interesting/disturbing if this is a gen II timing tensioner problem.

 

[Telco]

We'll soon know if it's the accessory drive or not on mine. I'd have had the job done yesterday but the idler pulley I was sent was too large. Looked more like the idler on my Chevy truck than the one that came off my Lincoln. Parts store is supposed to have another one in today. It ain't easy getting at those parts with my huge hands either. So far the tensioner has been replaced without removing anything other than the air intake. The bearings on the tensioner didn't sound too healthy spinning by hand, so I at least know that there was a problem there. And, the belt was stretched and cracking. I really should have done this a lot sooner.

 

[stugots]

No, The first sign of timing tensioner failure is a rattle at cold startup that often goes away after a little bit.

It will be interesting/disturbing if this is a gen II timing tensioner problem.

Disturbing for sure..

 

[Robot]

Man, I don't know. I would try the WD40 before taking it to the mechanic. If its just the belt, you will know it because it won't make the noise. If it's a tensioner, WD40 won't have an effect.