jerrym3
Well-Known LVC Member
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...222709616.html
And, in addition to my LS, I've got her twin, a retro TBird.
And, in addition to my LS, I've got her twin, a retro TBird.
Don't Shoot the Messenger
- Thread starter jerrym3
- Start date
Meh........
lincolnelite
Well-Known LVC Member
more than half of those listed have "Ford" genes on it, they're selling well though.
chris2523
93 Mark VIII
i read through this "study", i was unimpressed.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Sorry, but they're right. This car has way too many expensive problems, such as the cooling system. Whoever heard of a car that requires all its cooling system parts replaced every 100K miles?
Don't know... My daughter's was due at about 150K and mine is still original at 120K+.
chris2523
93 Mark VIII
140k+ here, only replaced the degas bottle so far.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Yes, but look at everyone who starts having cooling system problems that affects everything else on the car, starting at the 100K mark. Even the Yugo didn't have this problem, not that it ever could. 
Then there's the whole coil/plug thing. Got a flat? Step one, change the coils and plugs. Step two, locate jack... I swear, these cars...
Then there's the whole coil/plug thing. Got a flat? Step one, change the coils and plugs. Step two, locate jack... I swear, these cars...
T-Money
Dedicated LVC Member
I just can't relate. Being only 23 years old I've only had a handful of cars. Also I don't drive much at all, but this car has been the best most reliable car I've ever had. This July will mark me being an LS owner for 6 years. The only issue I've had was once my heated seat wouldn't work and it needed a new fan motor. My dads recently had a coil go bad, but again IMO that is no big deal. You can tell when a coil is failing, but it's not like when a coil goes bad the car won't work and leaves you stranded on the side of the road.. Not to mention it is easily something you can fix yourself. Also the other major issue the cooling system (which I've never had an issue with yet) but it's something that is easy enough that you could do the job yourself. It's not like the engine needs rebuilding or tranny needs rebuilding. (If those were common issues I may be more afraid of this car) but they are not. And the issues that are common are DIY fixes.
I'm only at 19k miles on mine. And it was a one owner carefully driven Southern California car. So I'm not particularly worried, but it is now 8 years old and if I had to replace the cooling system in the next few years just from being old and frail well again i say no big deal. For how much I drive it would probably be another 10 years before I have to touch the cooling system again.
In 2 years I actually plan on replacing a ton of parts just as preventative maintenance. Much cheaper than a new car, and hopefully it'll give me many more years of stress/worry free driving.
I know I'm nutts. But I just love my car.
I also wonder if the majority of ls's they used for this study were gen I's or what. I know they are more commonly breaking down then the gen II's
I'm only at 19k miles on mine. And it was a one owner carefully driven Southern California car. So I'm not particularly worried, but it is now 8 years old and if I had to replace the cooling system in the next few years just from being old and frail well again i say no big deal. For how much I drive it would probably be another 10 years before I have to touch the cooling system again.
In 2 years I actually plan on replacing a ton of parts just as preventative maintenance. Much cheaper than a new car, and hopefully it'll give me many more years of stress/worry free driving.
I know I'm nutts. But I just love my car.
I also wonder if the majority of ls's they used for this study were gen I's or what. I know they are more commonly breaking down then the gen II's
Yes, but look at everyone who starts having cooling system problems that affects everything else on the car, starting at the 100K mark. Even the Yugo didn't have this problem, not that it ever could.
Using this forum for evidence of reliability is VERY misleading. Other than the fact that this group represents very, very, very few LS owners, most people only come to places like this to complain/get an issue resolved. Couple that with the fact the vast majority of the people here bought their cars used and have no idea how well it was, or wasn't maintained prior to their ownership. Bad suspension? What wheels are being used? Is the car lowered? How many owners here skimp on parts or gas, or go too long on maintenance to save a few bucks? These are luxury cars and from what I read here most owners treat them like muscle cars.
Off my soapbox... I've had 4 (still have 3 in the family) and they've been every bit as reliable as any of the 4 Sables, one K-Car (Le Baron) or the one Civic we've owned in the last 28 years.
jerrym3
Well-Known LVC Member
TMoney, magic words, 23 years old.
At 23 back in the early 60's, I was changing transmissions, doing brake jobs, changing rear ends all in the street with bumper jacks and cinder blocks.
Now, I'm 70, going on 71, and things just ain't that easy anymore.
I did a lot of the "lighter" stuff when I had the motor changed in my Galaxie two years ago, and I removed the complete interior last year so that a proffessional could install new seat covers, but it wasn't that easy,
This year, I spent a few days under my dash removing and upgrading my Galaxie's dash cluster, buit I wouldn't know where to start if my LS (or TBird) needed sensors, electronics, or "blend doors" changed.
T-Money
Dedicated LVC Member
.im sorry I just do not understand what your trying to say here. Are you complaining about the reliability of the LS which is what this thread is about. Or are you just saying you don't like newer cars because they are full of electronics that are not as easy to repair as older cars.
I was simply stating that in my 6 years of ownership my car has been very reliable and if I had to replace the cooling system or coils after 100k or so of driving I see that as not a big deal because they are DIY fixes.
I was simply stating that in my 6 years of ownership my car has been very reliable and if I had to replace the cooling system or coils after 100k or so of driving I see that as not a big deal because they are DIY fixes.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Yes, people come to complain and they all complain about the same things. Defective cooling systems, coil/plug failures, suspension failures, ect, and they all seem to hit at 100K miles to 150K miles except for the coil/plug issue which hits every 5 minutes. Sorry, but I've owned a great many cars and the LS has parts fail with regularity that shouldn't. For example, thermostats are wear/fail items, thermostat housings aren't, but on the LS the housing is what fails.
T-Money
Dedicated LVC Member
And again i am in no way saying the LS is a reliable car.
It's just that for my situation it has been more reliable then previous cars I've owned. Being I drive less than 4k a year my circumstances are different than most peoples. My car won't hit 100k for at least another 15 years.
And now it's time for me to go in hiding for a few
Months again because as usual LVC is just not as cool as it used to be.
It's just that for my situation it has been more reliable then previous cars I've owned. Being I drive less than 4k a year my circumstances are different than most peoples. My car won't hit 100k for at least another 15 years.
And now it's time for me to go in hiding for a few
Months again because as usual LVC is just not as cool as it used to be.
lincolnelite
Well-Known LVC Member
BMW does, but the major difference is that the depreciation of BMWs are not that bad compared to the LS. In fact the LS has a very poor resale value considering that this car is extinct. Only LS owners love this car.
The Aviator was listed (and is also extinct) because it has worst depreciation than the Explorer, although they both have the same reliability issues.
The car was designed properly, the engineering was executed poorly by Ford. If it did well Lincoln will not ax this model and I wouldn't blame bad marketing or the Lincoln brand for that.
myfirstlincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
I was at about 130,000 miles when I had my first cooling issue. I didn't read every post in this thread but for me the LS has been reliable and I don't know too many 10+ year old cars that look as good and perform as well.
roman_capps
Active LVC Member
ahem excuse my language but I'm calling BS on that list. we had a VW beetle that is one tough SOB sure interior was cheap but it had 211k miles when we sold it. that's also funny how they don't mention the problems it has. a Lincoln aviator aww hell naw the 5.4 is a reliable engine I saw one in Chipley not to long ago and I told the guy nice aviator I also said what problems does it have he said none only a few sensors but that's all. The JAG s type and the LS basically the same damn thing I've been around an LS only bad thing about it was a hole in the hose at 190k miles the V6 to be exact. I can easily think of 4 cars to replace them 10. Ford free star bad torque converters in those SOBS at 80k miles. 8. Kia Sophia the engine blew up in my moms at 120k miles. 7. 1990's ford thunderbird absolute garbage the thing kept locking up and locked me and my mother in the car dad had to come out and bust the window out with a crowbar. 6. Pontiac Firebird talk about garbage oil got into the cylinders and fuel line soon after transmission stop shifting completely all 5 gears were stripped GM misplaced the gears to were they would barely touch.
2002_lincolnLS
Custom User Title
The LS is a turd to say the least. Anyone who would consider this car reliable is lieing to himself, it is not period. I am talking about the general production lot, over all more break than do not. And its not just these people on the forum, I have tons of friends working at various garages and dealerships in the area, all of them hate the LS, among other cars as well. But oh man if you even bring up Lincoln LS they lose it.
My dad had a sonata from work that had well over 200,000 miles and never had anything repaired, just needed tires brakes and fluids changed. My girlfriend's sunfire has 200,000 and far less repairs than my LS did when it 100,000
cars shouldn't need the repairs the LS does before it even hits 100,000 miles, with today's technology and materials there is no reason the cooling system should just fall apart.
Things that still need fixed are my clock spring and DCCV for some reason its lean been trying to figure that one out (oh and all them **** up the cats)
And honestly I don't even see it worth it to fix, it has no resale value at all, and even less trade in.
The only things I like about the car now is it is paid for and looks good. other than that it is an over priced car with tons of issues
My dad had a sonata from work that had well over 200,000 miles and never had anything repaired, just needed tires brakes and fluids changed. My girlfriend's sunfire has 200,000 and far less repairs than my LS did when it 100,000
cars shouldn't need the repairs the LS does before it even hits 100,000 miles, with today's technology and materials there is no reason the cooling system should just fall apart.
Things that still need fixed are my clock spring and DCCV for some reason its lean been trying to figure that one out (oh and all them **** up the cats)
And honestly I don't even see it worth it to fix, it has no resale value at all, and even less trade in.
The only things I like about the car now is it is paid for and looks good. other than that it is an over priced car with tons of issues
It seems like they have decent resale value though, I've never owned one, but I did test drive one back in the day, and it seemed like a nice car. It was either the LS or a CTS, I ended up with the 2004 CTS 3.6L, there was just something about it I really liked, the 3.6L is just phenomenal, probably not as good as an LS V8, but I think it blows the V6 LS out the water. I think it's funny that the base CTS engine requires you to use premium fuel, but the more expensive upgrade 3.6L runs on regular. Now after 10 years and putting on about 200,000 miles she still runs like a champ, there's only really one minor tic with it, the theft system acts up sometimes, but other than that I have had done nothing major, I am the original owner, so I know for a fact it's pretty much all original. In the last 4 years I've only had to replace the computer module. Not that bad considering it was a lot of new unproven technology, and 2004 was the first year for the 3.6L and CTS was the first car it was put in.
T-Money
Dedicated LVC Member
I felt like chiming in on my experiences with the aviator here. The aviator has a 4.6 cobra engine in it. Not a 5.4.
Also I can't tell you how many times I've inquired about aviators and they have either had rebuilt engines or need engine repair. They tend to lose compression once over 80k miles. There is actually one I'm looking at right now and it has 89k and the guy wants a fortune for it because he just rebuilt the engine. I don't know if it belongs on the list. But there aren't to many for sale and I'd say more then half of the ones I've looked at have had significant engine work on the carfax. But when they are working correctly damn they ride nice.
smoothLSV8
Active LVC Member
T-Money: I just can't relate. Being only 23 years old I've only had a handful of cars. Also I don't drive much at all, but this car has been the best most reliable car I've ever had
If you don't drive a car it won't brake. Case in point: our 2000 Ford Contour is driven about 5K per year. We bought it (ab-)used in '06. Contours take a top spot on the unreliable list. But it is the cheapest car for the purpose we ever had, even cheaper and more reliable than the purportedly ever reliable Toyota Corolla.
Funny enough: the Contour has 110K now and the thermostat housing started leaking.
To me the statistic is valid. But I keep in mind that a statistic is not a report on an individual vehicle. It only helps figure out your odds.
If you don't drive a car it won't brake. Case in point: our 2000 Ford Contour is driven about 5K per year. We bought it (ab-)used in '06. Contours take a top spot on the unreliable list. But it is the cheapest car for the purpose we ever had, even cheaper and more reliable than the purportedly ever reliable Toyota Corolla.
Funny enough: the Contour has 110K now and the thermostat housing started leaking.
To me the statistic is valid. But I keep in mind that a statistic is not a report on an individual vehicle. It only helps figure out your odds.
The only thing poorly executed poorly by Ford was Nassar squeezing their suppliers to fabricate the parts at a very low cost point. Too low it turns out!! Then there's the lack of an advertising budget combined with a failing economy (a realtor friend told me about the future "crash" in Jan '01 as banks were loaning too much money). The LS was just released at the wrong time.
Hmmmmm... My '06 has needed a DCCV, upper radiator hose and belt tensioner. Not bad for 120K miles. I had to replace one cat in over 180K miles on the V6 due to my error. Clocksprings break on EVERY car eventually. It is a wear item after all.
Did you buy yours new? Did you know the previous owner? How they took care of it? Anecdotal evidence from your local area is hardly indicative of a national trend. Why do thy "hate the LS"? Could it be the tight quarters? That book time doesn't make enough profit? You're an LS hater, sell it (BTW, anyone that buys a car for resale value TOTALLY misunderstands the automotive market; unless you're talking Ferrari, and even they lose value) and get something that only needs gas. Good luck finding such a vehicle.
2002_lincolnLS
Custom User Title
I bought my used, from a dealer that I worked at, the previous owner worked there as well.
They hate the LS because it is awful to work on in general, one of the biggest reasons is how tight everything is (Insert rebuttal of other tight cars) . I've talked to them about the ls and being here, that covers a national area, I feel it plenty of evidence to deem the car unreliable, sure it's semi anecdotal evidence, as I am referring to their story.
Also you are idiot to think that looking at resale is not knowing the automotive market. If that were true used car lots would not exist, resale is everything when talking not limited production, non collector items that only depreciate. If you are buying for life ownership it has no point, but most wouldn't do that with a regular production sedan. Look at Subaru's especially the STI, they sell for way more than a Lincoln LS ever would used and they cost less to buy new than the LS. It is because you can get a ton of millage out of them, they are desirable and generally not a heap. (insert piston ring comment about the 2, maybe 3 year stretch where they tried a new manufacturer) By the way evo's are like this too. Check out Supra and r33 prices. They sell for more now than the LS was worth in its hayday.
I am not an LS hater I like my car but I do not lie to my self about what it. What I can't stand is the people who try to make it out to be the universes gift to mankind.
Oh and every Ferrari other than the 1963 250 GTO and maybe the f40 has lost value, The 250 GTO being the only car period to only ever appreciate value for the entirety of it's existence, so by your claim no one understands the market but you seeing as they look at resale value.. Good to know I have the inside man
As well please refrain from using your own experience with the car to counter my point as that would be anecdotal evidence... Make sure your data is peer reviewed, my assuming to be skeptical friend.
Trust me I am not trying to piss anyone off, though I don't care if I do. It is simple truth the car would be described as unreliable. I am not saying the LS is the worst car ever built, it surely is not, but it is far from the best and most reliable cars ever built as well.
Also please describe your definition of reliable vs unreliable, maybe I don't understand your view of it, maybe replacing coils at 60-80k miles is normal, although GM gets more than twice on average out of theirs. Maybe it's common to replace valve cover gaskets at 50-75k miles.. I don't know..
lincolnelite
Well-Known LVC Member
I have older cars with more mileage than my LS that still has the clockspring intact or the cooling system in good shape (except for the 97 taurus and 89 sable which developed a leak in the radiator at 160k yet the clockspring is still intact) My 2002 mountaineer with 135k and Lincoln Continental with 118k miles still has the original COPs, clockspring and cooling system. The Continental recently got new valve cover gasket (at 115k) due to oil leak going into the plugs but the COPs are still OK!. Those 2 cars are driven daily too. My daughter even chose to drive the Continental (eventhough it's an old man car) instead of the LS because she is not so confident what could go wrong with the LS along the way to her commute to college.
So yes it is for sale, I do love it but there are other good cars out there that's easy to work on and more reliable than the LS. I also bought it really dirt cheap from a guy that got tired of it too (after 4 of the COPs failed the 2nd time and clockspring issue)