This is what i was getting at.
And this is what i meant.
A person can choose how they want to live their life here.
Disinviting Islam
- Thread starter shagdrum
- Start date
This is what i was getting at.
A person can choose how they want to live their life here.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
And Islam cannot permit this. Look at any country where Islam is the dominant religion - the society is malevolent and the culture is locked down.
ford nut
Local nut case
I was asking because you never made it clear... can't you see the question mark?
What questions are you talking about?
These?
ford nut
Local nut case
Never thought about it.
I would think no.
I do think the culture changes a little at a time as you change the ingredient's of the melting pot.
Do you think its right to single out a given group and place a different set of rules for them based on religion?
Based solely on religion, no. But "right" and "necessary" are two different things. What do you do when they conflict in such stark and potentially life threatening ways?
How about singling them out based on behavior or the behavior their ascribed worldview promotes? Is expecting any and every immigrant to assimilate to American culture "singling" out anyone because of religious views?
What about singling out due to ties to certain people and/or organizations?
Also, do we have to be equitable in how we determine who is and is not allowed to migrate to this country? It is one thing for equality under the Rule of Law, but non-citizens are not governed by our laws.
Is the notion of every culture being equal (multiculturalism) worth ignoring reality over?
Principles are very important, but they should reflect reality, not trump reality.
Another point that can not be forgotten is that Islam is not simply a religion, but also a worldview and an entire way of life that DEMANDS obedience of all. You don't tolerate that, you fight it.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
What ever happened to the 'sticky-ness' of the above post? It should be at the top of the page!!!
KS
Ah - shag - natural law is derived from ancient Greece - I realize it is sort of in your nature that good things only have arrived because of Christianity - but, in this case - you gotta go with Aristotle...
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
natural law
n. 1) standards of conduct derived from traditional moral principles (first mentioned by Roman jurists in the first century A.D.) and/or God's law and will. The biblical ten commandments, such as "thou shall not kill," are often included in those principles. Natural law assumes that all people believe in the same Judeo-Christian God and thus share an understanding of natural law premises. 2) the body of laws derived from nature and reason, embodied in the Declaration of Independence assertion that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness." 3) the opposite of "positive law," which is created by mankind through the state.
Agreed.
If you will note, I was focusing on how the Framer's understood Natural Law. Their understanding is consistent with what I laid out, as is John Locke's.
Note the use of "Creator" (singular) in the Declaration of Independence.
Context is everything.
ford nut
Local nut case
You can't discriminate, even under the assumption of future threats based on religion.
Your necessary might not be mine, same as my religion.
Slippery slope.
First your assuming they are going to tell you their ascribed worldview.
You can't just assume it because somebody declares they are a Muslim.
I think you can be culturally assimilated and still keep your religious views.
Yes...nobody wants al-Qa'ida member next door.
No we don't, but we don't discriminate based on religion.
No
Your reality, not mine.
Not all Muslims want to kill innocent people.
Not all Christians want to kill abortion Doctors.
To pick out one group out based on religion is wrong.
No not all Muslims want to kill....
But all members of Al-Qaeda are Muslim. So are Mahdi Army, and the Taliban. And many other terrorist groups inside of Iraq and the surrounding countries.
One thing i will say is that a lot of them cant even read or write, so they only know the word of the Koran through an Iman. Now this Iman can take several hundred uneducated people from a young age, and distort their view of the western world and describe everyone as infidels.
Once they have been brainwashed, well all they have to do is push em off into a training camp and teach them how to be "holy fighters" in the name of Allah for jihad.
But all members of Al-Qaeda are Muslim. So are Mahdi Army, and the Taliban. And many other terrorist groups inside of Iraq and the surrounding countries.
One thing i will say is that a lot of them cant even read or write, so they only know the word of the Koran through an Iman. Now this Iman can take several hundred uneducated people from a young age, and distort their view of the western world and describe everyone as infidels.
Once they have been brainwashed, well all they have to do is push em off into a training camp and teach them how to be "holy fighters" in the name of Allah for jihad.
ford nut
Local nut case
No.
On the contray when i see someone i recognize of arabic descent i say "salam a -lleykum" (formal way of saying hello) or "shlonek" if theyre younger (whats up) and speak to them for a bit.
But i do keep myself aware because you never know. The typical image of the terrorist is some guy with brown skin, brown eyes wearing a white dishdasha and thick beard.
But many of them are well groomed, have lighter skin and blue eyes and wear western clothing.
Matter fact ive seen several who could pass for being a white American.
On the contray when i see someone i recognize of arabic descent i say "salam a -lleykum" (formal way of saying hello) or "shlonek" if theyre younger (whats up) and speak to them for a bit.
But i do keep myself aware because you never know. The typical image of the terrorist is some guy with brown skin, brown eyes wearing a white dishdasha and thick beard.
But many of them are well groomed, have lighter skin and blue eyes and wear western clothing.
Matter fact ive seen several who could pass for being a white American.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
If they don't, then they're not obeying the imams, who are currently preaching out of the Koran that if you are an obedient muslim you must be on a jihad.
And where are the muslims RISING UP against this violence?
The real scare is that with economic and social conditions worsening in Europe, and eventually in the United States, we'll see more 'conversions' to the cult.
Not to mention the significant number of Muslims who live in Eastern Europe, the result of the last Islamic empire and forced conversions.
ford nut
Local nut case
Right, I agree with you 100%
I know exactly what your saying.
The point I trying to make is.
You cant dis-invite one group because of religion.
You cant have specific policies set because of religion.
That is what this spew that was posted is advocating.
ford nut
Local nut case
You make so many valid points. My son is a Capt. in the 101st Airborne and is in Afghanistan, he is in our prayers everyday. He served 18 months in Iraq.
I have to agree 100% with everything you said.
You can always educate the ignorant, but you cannot make stupid smart.
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a point that gets missed here is that discrimination is not a four letter word, it is an everyday part of life. Any and every decision is discriminating between various options.
The question is what type of discrimination is inappropriate to certain contexts. Obviously our society views discrimination based on certain qualities (race, sex, etc.) as morally wrong. But that fact has been distorted and exaggerated to the point that "discrimination" has become a word to shut down debate; as a means to "win the argument" by default.
We certainly should discriminate based on behavior. That includes the behavior of subscribing to and actively promoting certain violent ideologies. In fact, people do that on an individual basis everyday. Juan Williams pointed out that fact and was fired from NPR for it (showing not only an anti-Fox News bias, but an unrealistic viewpoint on the matter on the part of those at NPR who fired him).
Also, the issue of context is very important. We have a legal system set to treat everyone equally as innocent until proven guilty and there is very good reason for it. But setting standards for allowing people to immigrate into this country falls outside the legal system. If it is to be accepted that we must treat everyone the same in this area regardless of whatever factor at issue is looked at, that needs to be justified, not simply asserted.
Another fact that cannot be forgotten is the issue of islam not being just a religion but an entire way of life. Saying we "shouldn't discriminate on the basis of religion" misses that point.
The question is what type of discrimination is inappropriate to certain contexts. Obviously our society views discrimination based on certain qualities (race, sex, etc.) as morally wrong. But that fact has been distorted and exaggerated to the point that "discrimination" has become a word to shut down debate; as a means to "win the argument" by default.
We certainly should discriminate based on behavior. That includes the behavior of subscribing to and actively promoting certain violent ideologies. In fact, people do that on an individual basis everyday. Juan Williams pointed out that fact and was fired from NPR for it (showing not only an anti-Fox News bias, but an unrealistic viewpoint on the matter on the part of those at NPR who fired him).
Also, the issue of context is very important. We have a legal system set to treat everyone equally as innocent until proven guilty and there is very good reason for it. But setting standards for allowing people to immigrate into this country falls outside the legal system. If it is to be accepted that we must treat everyone the same in this area regardless of whatever factor at issue is looked at, that needs to be justified, not simply asserted.
Another fact that cannot be forgotten is the issue of islam not being just a religion but an entire way of life. Saying we "shouldn't discriminate on the basis of religion" misses that point.
ford nut
Local nut case
Christianity is not just a religion but an entire way of life.
Correct?
Correct?
ford nut
Local nut case
From here...
Christianity is not both a system of worship and a system of legislation. Any comparison of the two that does NOT take that fact into account is a false comparison.
Christianity is something you choose to follow. With Islam, you follow or die.
With Christianity, there is freewill. With Islam, no freewill is allowed.
When Christianity is forced on someone it is inconsistent with Christian teaching. When Islam is not forced on someone, it is inconsistent with Islamic teachings.
The free society we enjoy is, in many ways derived from Christian teachings. Due to Sharia Law, Islam is incompatible with a free society and works to destroy free society.
As Islam is a comprehensive system of worship (Ibadah) and legislation (Shari’ah), the acceptance of secularism means abandonment of Shari’ah, a denial of the divine guidance and a rejection of Allah’s injunctions. It is indeed a false claim that Shari’ah is not proper to the requirements of the present age. The acceptance of a legislation formulated by humans means a preference of the humans’ limited knowledge and experiences to the divine guidance: “Say! Do you know better than Allah?” (Qur’an, 2:140) For this reason, the call for secularism among Muslims is atheism and a rejection of Islam. Its acceptance as a basis for rule in place of Shari’ah is downright apostasy. [said by Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi]
Apostasy is an explosive accusation. On another occasion, Sheikh Qaradawi explained that “Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished.” He further acknowledged that the consensus view of these jurists, including the principal schools of both Sunni and Shiite jurisprudence, is “that apostates must be executed.”
Christianity is something you choose to follow. With Islam, you follow or die.
With Christianity, there is freewill. With Islam, no freewill is allowed.
When Christianity is forced on someone it is inconsistent with Christian teaching. When Islam is not forced on someone, it is inconsistent with Islamic teachings.
The free society we enjoy is, in many ways derived from Christian teachings. Due to Sharia Law, Islam is incompatible with a free society and works to destroy free society.
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
-verse 9:29
Slay the idolators wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush
-verse 9:5
-verse 9:29
Slay the idolators wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush
-verse 9:5
Explain to me how that was "fear mongering."Fear mongering got to love it.