Car wont start

[JWerner2]

2000 V8 wont start. Just charged the battery and it cranks and cranks but it wont kick over.

I haven't been using it much and well like a dumb ass I was letting it warm up the other day just for GP and ended up passing out with the kids and forgot about it so it ran out of gas. I filled it back up and it ran a few times since but now its blistering cold out and things are frozen over so Im wondering if moisture got in it somehow or another when the tank ran out.


I was once told that with these tanks if it sits to long over the winter and all with low levels of fuel moisture may build up.

I know its got gas in it now.
Definitely not the battery cause like I said I just had that charged and when I turn the key its cranks and cranks but it dont seem to want to turn over at all, just crank and crank.


Please help! Could this be a starter problem? No engine lights prior to this at all.

 

[gcwimmer]

Add 2 bottles of dry gas additive if the tank is full, you should change the fuel filter.

 

[Quik LS]

make sure the fuel is getting to the rail - take the cap off the schrader valve and depress it (like a tire valve) - if fuel sprays, at least fuel is getting there. if not - then maybe your inertia cut-off valve tripped (can do it if it's cold).

Other than that - it's looking for fuses.

 

[JWerner2]

Add 2 bottles of dry gas additive if the tank is full, you should change the fuel filter.

Well I actually took advantage of the moment and replaced the filter.

I'll fill the tank up more and try the dry gas its around 1/8th or just less now but it is parked on a hill.

Quick, I'll try your suggestions also. Mind you its well below freezing out right now. I looked for the switch but I cant even seem to get to it.


Any suggestions on what fuses to start with?

 

[Quik LS]

the valve is on the driver's side fuel rail - mid-point.

the switch is in driver's side footwell - there is a hole in the plastic where you can push (or see) the red button

 

[NYC LS8]

Either frozen lines or you burned out the fuel pump is my guess. Do like Quik said and check the FP at the rail.

 

[JWerner2]

I cant find that valve and I know where the switch is in the footwell I just don't see any button or switch of any kind.


Im thinking its a frozen line cause man its freaking cold out and it did run after I ran out of gas.


Then again, when my battery died the last time the car did just die and cranked and cranked till the battery was drained but I thought it was the battery cause it didn't take long for it to drain. So, maybe it is a burnt pump.

 

[Quik LS]

if you turn the key from off to on - you shoul dbe able to hear the pump prime...

the switch button is a red button that pops up when tripped - if you do not see it - then it's not likely the problem

the schrader valve usually has a screw-on type tire valve cover cap on it - usually blue - on the fuel rail in between the fifth and sixth injector

 

[JWerner2]

God! WTF? Now the battery died from cranking it over so many times. Whats with that should it have died so easily? I dont recall hearing a noise but I dont recall ever hearing one or at least taking note.

I got a list of fuel related fuses from the manual on the tech pages.

I dont smell any fuel and now Im wondering if Im getting wrong readings for the amount of gas I do have.

Pisses me off! I try to let it run when I dont use it and this is the thanks I get

 

[Quik LS]

yep - starting is hard on the battery - these dual overhead cams, timing chains, tight tolerances ... nasty torque.

 

[JWerner2]

Do all year fuel pumps work?

 

[97stscaddy]

That would be a question for one of our resident Ford parts experts.

Id be getting out the old rubber mallot and giving the bottom of the tank a whack or two to see if it knocks some sense into that fuel pump first. Or you could pull up the rear seat cushion, pop the cover off on the passenger side (I think that's the main pump) and then turn the key and see if it makes any sound.

 

[JWerner2]

Well its like -3 here right now and new years kicked my ass so hopefully by going out and doing so I sober up!


The sh!ty part now is that Im back to the basic if it is a frozen line. I got way less than half a tank and cant get it to a gas station. I only got a 1 gallon can ! So if it was the low amount of gas that helped moisture build I hope it warms up enough to start soon:shifty: And if its not a frozen line and what they say is true about the moisture building up ow its more likely to happen since the pump aint running.

Does give me a good excuse to replace some parts since I'm going on 90k miles

 

[The Hotness]

Add 2 bottles of dry gas additive if the tank is full

I would do what he suggested, and take the battery down to local auto parts store to get a full charge placed on it. Put that extra gallon of gas in there.

Then cycle the key on and off a couple of times and find that schrader valve. I think it's under the plastic cover (or right next to it) on the motor with a blue cap on the fuel rail. Remove cap and cover with a rag and depress it just like you would your tires..

Its really the only way to tell if the motor is getting fuel... only way. :| Once you find that valve its only going to take you a minute to help figure out the problem..

Or I would wait until winter is over.. haha

Either way, I am sorry about your luck I hope you get it figured out.

 

[97stscaddy]

Got a garage you can push it into?
I feel your pain man, I hate working on cars in the cold. Unfortunately if the line is frozen there's not much in the way of additives that will thaw them out. Except for HEET maybe, but I dunno if that works once the line is already frozen.

 

[JWerner2]

I would do what he suggested, and take the battery down to local auto parts store to get a full charge placed on it. Put that extra gallon of gas in there.

Then cycle the key on and off a couple of times and find that schrader valve. I think it's under the plastic cover (or right next to it) on the motor with a blue cap on the fuel rail. Remove cap and cover with a rag and depress it just like you would your tires..

Its really the only way to tell if the motor is getting fuel... only way. :| Once you find that valve its only going to take you a minute to help figure out the problem..

Or I would wait until winter is over.. haha

Either way, I am sorry about your luck I hope you get it figured out.

Thanks.


I did go out and pull the seat up and removed the cover off of the pump. I dont think I heard anything at all. 28 years of loud metal music kind of deafens you to certain sounds . I have to find my fuse box cover so I know what numbers Im looking at. I took it off a while back and never put it back on. Then I'll check any other fuses and relay's. Im pretty sure I can point it to a burnt pump given the situation leading up to it. The fact that it ran in between was probably just the last bit of life in it.

I know for sure its not getting gas and that is the problem at this moment just gotta find out why. I noticed that when its low on gas if I open the gas cap it hisses like as if its under pressure but it didnt do that when I checked Shouldn't it be under some kind of pressure if its a frozen line and being blocked?

Im not worried about waiting till the end of winter but I do need it once a week at least for work. The other days I work around my wife's schedule and use our other vehicle during the winter. But, the fact that it don't get a chance to warm up and get fluids and all flowing over the winter bothers me, especially if its already frozen up and its low on gas.

Got a garage you can push it into?
I feel your pain man, I hate working on cars in the cold. Unfortunately if the line is frozen there's not much in the way of additives that will thaw them out. Except for HEET maybe, but I dunno if that works once the line is already frozen.

Nope. I live in a apartment. I think I got one friend with a garage but he still lives at home, well moved back for a short period do to his dad getting sick. Im not sure if I can get AAA to tow it there or not but his driveways is a steep hill!


I have read that the strainer and everything else should be replaced or a premature end will occur but do to the fact that it burnt cause of my negligence would I still need to replace the entire unit or just the pump?

 

[The Hotness]

I think the lack of pressure in your tank just signifies that its not running. The pressure/vacuum (not sure which) builds up over time I believe.

In my past, just listening for the fuel pump doesn't signify much. It only builds line pressure and then stops... So if its already pressurized...

I suppose if fuel is your problem, then some starting fluid through the intake would reflect that..

Good luck, and keep us posted!

If your going to replace the pump, I would omit all the hardware and get a new filter. Also cleaning out the tank of all the fuel would probably be good too and using that gas for the lawn mower. lol

 

[Snowseeker]

Any gas tank will create condensation if the fuel level is low and it sits over winter. Not only bad for freezing and starting problems but also causes BAD rust problems in the tank, lines, and pump that you want no part of.

As for your freezing problem dump this stuff in the tank and get that tank filled up!

 

[JWerner2]

Can that heet and dry gas be mixed/used at the same time?

 

[Snowseeker]

Heet is pretty much both anti freeze and water drier.

 

[SoonerLS]

Not only bad for freezing and starting problems but also causes BAD rust problems in the tank, lines, and pump that you want no part of.

The LS's tank and (IIRC) fuel lines are polymer, not steel, so there's not much risk of rusting them. I doubt there was enough condensed water in the tank to do any major damage in that short of a time or to plug the fuel lines, so it's sounding like a burned out (or otherwise disabled) pump could be the problem. It could always be the jet pump (IIRC, that's the one on the passenger side of the tank), which transfers the fuel over to the side of the tank with the main pump...

 

[JWerner2]

Now Im getting confused. From what I read the jet pump is the other side and has not much significance and is a venturi design with minimal to go wrong.


I didnt believe myself that it would rust or anything given the materials its made of but freezing popped into my mind.


See when I had my coil issues I let the car sit for a bit cause we still had a rental car. The LS was replacing a car that was totaled but we still had some time with the rental so we used it the winter we purchased the LS. When I took it in for service they told me the misfire could have something to do either with bad gas or water since it sat a lot. So my concern with water is freezing the lines or destroying something further up but like I said the day it stalled was before any seriously cold weather so thinking about it I think its a burnt pump.

 

[Quik LS]

so - you do not hear the pump 'prime' when going from key-off to key-on (not start) - right?

So - forget about frozen lines, adding stuff to your tank and all that - you have to isolate if the pump is working or not. If you take a voltmeter to the pump wiring (4 wires - ground, power, 2 for float signal) - are you getting a reading?

 

[JWerner2]

Im gunna sit in the back with the seat off while the wife turns the key over tonight to see what I hear. I cant find my meter which is pissing me off cause I been looking for that to look for whats drawing my batteries down.


On a good note with my batteries the Manager at NTB feels upset with the fact another employee mislead me and sold me the non-vented battery telling me it would be ok and they are replacing it with a vented one from a dealership


Im sure its come down to either being a fuse or burnt pump.


Now I need to verify what side the pump is on since I got a few different things doing a search.

 

[Quik LS]

right - if the pump is working - that leads to a different troubleshooting path... is fuel getting to the rail - if not then lines, filters, ...

If the pump is not working - then that the first thing to fix. Is it getting power (fuses, relay, interia switch...) or is it the pump itself.