Car died, will not start.

[Jkhoyt]

First, I wanna say I usually work on older GM cars, so some of the ways things are done on this car confused me ( Jet pump, cooling system, etc ). This website has had some great info to help me out while working on my friend's 2000 LS V8. It has a little over 115k on the odometer, replaced the degas tank and did the VCG and 5 of the coils in the last year. It has had a code for one of the cats for over a year now, I'm guessing from the oil before the vgc was done.

Just over two weeks ago, the car starting idling rough, almost as if it had a nice cam in it. Checked the codes, came up with a P0174 System Too Lean (Bank 2) in addition to the cat. A few days later, the car started a thumping sound ( almost the same as when I heard a v6 running on 3 cylinders on time) and died. Wasn't able to start it again. Car just turns over. What I've done since :

Checked battery charge ( good )
Checked all fuses and relays, swapping them out to make sure they were good
Cleaned IAC, throttle body, and MAF
Checked for vacuum leaks, couldn't find any
Checked EGR as well as I could considering where it's located, it looked in good shape
Fuel pressure was very weak, changed filter ( on a side note, it might have been the original filter on the car. The previous owners didn't seem to do much in the way of maintenance, there's no evidence of any accident/repairs, and there was paint overspray on the filter ). When I dumped it out, a semi-solid sludge came out. Still weak fuel pressure. Replaced fuel pump, good fuel pressure now.
Checked spark, all of them good
Checked injectors, they are spraying
Tried starting without IAC connected, nothing
Tried starting without MAF connected, nothing
Tried starting giving it gas, the only difference being it sounds as if it's almost trying to start but only if I press the pedal to the floor. Other than that, just cranks
I'm pretty certain that covers it. I've read quite a bit about the timing chain, secondary chain, tensioner, etc, not going to take it apart to take that. Any other ideas/suggestions on relatively easy things I can try/check?
It's getting spark, fuel and air. Kind of at a loss of what else to do other than tell them to take it to the dealer. Any help is appreciated!

 

[1LoudLS]

It's getting spark, fuel and air.

this should be all that it needs to run, are these all happening at the correct times?

 

[Jkhoyt]

As far as I can tell, yes. I've got an Autoxray 5000, so it can only tell me so much. Forgot to mention the red light on the dash comes on when the key is turned to on, then goes off as I try to start it.

 

[joegr]

... It has had a code for one of the cats for over a year now, I'm guessing from the oil before the vgc was done...

No, that is due to running too long with misfiring cylinder(s). That's due to COP failures. Those may or may not have been caused by oil in the wells. (COPs often fail with no oil or water in the wells. There is a problem with the epoxy in the coils.)

Anyway, you need to do a compression check. I suspect that a timing chain tensioner has failed. If this had just caused one chain to jump a tooth, it would almost certainly still start, so I assume that something more drastic (like broken chain) happened.

A compression check is an easy way to see if there is an internal problem like this.

 

[joegr]

this should be all that it needs to run, are these all happening at the correct times?

It needs compression too.

 

[Jkhoyt]

Thanks Joegr, gonna check in the morning

 

[Jkhoyt]

Readings are :
Cylinder 1 : 180
Cylinder 2 : 190
Cylinder 3 : 175
Cylinder 4 : 185
Cylinder 5 : 170
Cylinder 6 : 165
Cylinder 7 : 170
Cylinder 8 : 165

I also re-checked that I was getting spark to each cylinder.

 

[joegr]

Readings are :
Cylinder 1 : 180
Cylinder 2 : 190
Cylinder 3 : 175
Cylinder 4 : 185
Cylinder 5 : 170
Cylinder 6 : 165
Cylinder 7 : 170
Cylinder 8 : 165

I also re-checked that I was getting spark to each cylinder.

Well, all of this just doesn't add up (at least to me). Even if the ignition and/or fuel timing were wrong, you would at least be getting some back-fires. Can you smell raw gasoline when trying to start it? Have you verified that the gasoline in it will burn?

 

[Jkhoyt]

It's definitely confusing me as well. If I try to start it long enough with the throttle down, I can smell fuel, probably after 8-10 seconds. It will usually sputter once as if it's trying to start, but then just crank. When I did the fuel pump I put fresh 92 octane gas in, and I checked that the injectors were putting out fuel.

 

[Jkhoyt]

Well, for anyone who's interested, the car was diagnosed as having slipped timing. Not sure what is going to happen to the car now.

 

[joegr]

Well, for anyone who's interested, the car was diagnosed as having slipped timing. Not sure what is going to happen to the car now.

Well, your compression readings weren't great, but I was assuming they would be worse than that if the valve timing was off. Now I know.

If it didn't slip far enough to damage any valves, it should be pretty practical to replace the timing chain guides and chains to repair it.

 

[Jkhoyt]

Well, it's beyond my skills to do that, not sure she wants to sink that much money into it or not.

 

[G-RELL]

if the timing chain was off buy a tooth, is there a way to tell by just pulling the valve cover? and is the only fix to replace the chain and guides... to clarify, if my chain has slipped a tooth, how do you fix it.

 

[joegr]

if the timing chain was off buy a tooth, is there a way to tell by just pulling the valve cover? and is the only fix to replace the chain and guides... to clarify, if my chain has slipped a tooth, how do you fix it.

I don't think that you have to replace the chain(s) in that case, just the guides/tensioners. You can loosen the bolt on the sprocket and rotate it to where you are back in time again.

 

[oddball]

if the timing chain was off buy a tooth, is there a way to tell by just pulling the valve cover?

For this part of the question, pull the valve cover and rotate the engine until the flats near the front of the cam show up. Both flats should line up with the valve cover rails into a perfectly flat line. If one is off, then you won't get a flat line.

 

[G-RELL]

k, so if i do a compression check, find a side thats low, I'll pull that valve cover. if i find the flats dont line up, then i need to rotate the cam to get everything to line back up? Im assuming its the lower / outer cam that gets out of alignment.

 

[2002_lincolnLS]

this is very interesting information may be close to my problem

 

[oddball]

The lower/outboard cam is the exhaust cam and is driven by the secondary chains. The cam sprocket is attached to the cam just through a bolt - no alignment pin. So you can loosen the sprocket and rotate the cam somewhat easily. The correct procedure has a specific sequence to perform the alignment and sprocket assembly to keep things aligned.