Audio-moron here

[MikeB]

if your power wire is the size of a pencil then you need to up grade it to some 4gauge wire. you have a bad ass amp and why submit it to high resistant wire.

I agree, but we were troubleshooting to see if the amp or speaker were bad not critiquing the gauge of wire. If I remember correctly an 8 gauge (pencil size) or larger will suffice for the amp to play. Maybe not optimal but will play.

and by the way your ground wire is highly recommendedto be grounded to a thick piece of metal such as the frame where the battery in your car is grounded.

I agree with this one too. I believe I mentioned the frame earlier in this thread.

your rear seats is the best option.

The rear seat bolts are a fine place to ground an amp, but are you telling me that you’ll get a better electron flow from a seat bolt with 3 foot of wire than from the trunk floor with 18 inches of wire. And at least with the trunk floor, if the ground wire breaks loose from the ring terminal it’s easily found and worked on. When an amp is bolted to a sub box that is removable wires tend to be pulled on at times.

you also do not want your ground no more that 3' long the shorter the better....same principle applies to your power wire...the shorter the better.

Sounds good to me, but when did we stop troubleshooting and start reading the amp kit manual.

ALL OF THE OTHER WISE GUYS THAT HAVE THEIR OWN THEORIES ABOUT HOW TO INSTALL A AMP KEEPS IT TO YOURSELVES.....IF ANYBODY WANTED TO SPEND THE MONEY ON A REAL AMP (JL AUDIO) THEY SHOULD HAVE A REAL INSTALL....NOT ANYTHING THAT A BESTBUY OR CIRCUIT CITY INSTALLER WOULD DO!!!!!!!!!

Now I agree with the Circuit :q:q:q:qty comment, but what’s up with all the hostility?
The best thing about this site is that if you know what you’re talking about and have an opinion you can be heard. Nobody talks louder than anyone else.

BUT, if you feel the need to talk BIG, give the rest of us the courtesy of hearing how you came about this knowledge.

I wouldn’t consider myself a wise guy, just an Installer and or Manager with over 10 years professional experience. I worked for around six quality sound shops. While small, each had at least three locations. So they wouldn’t be considered Podunk mom and pop shops. As a said before, we beta tested the first JL amps on the market. Before I left the business in 2001 I was overseeing ten professional, certified (MECP) Installers and three full time sales people all of whom were in the business well before you left high school.

I also enjoy SPL competitions and have been a member of USAC and IASCA. Many competition vehicles have been thought my shops and millions have been collected in revenues. I personally have built demo vehicles for the companies that your generation worships today such as JL, PPI, Street Wires, Fosgate, Alpine, MTX and etc.

I feel confident in my ability to complete a “REAL INSTALL” as you so succinctly put it.


So now that you’ve TALKED so BIG let’s hear your credentials. :F

 

[MikeB]

I worked for Circuit City installing stereos. Its almost a crime, some of the things they do. You guys are absolutely right about techs f***ing up equiptment just to sell new stuff.(Which is why I quit.) Your best bet is definetly to find someone independant to help with the install/problems. For that matter, there are many websites that give all the info you need to install even complex systems. Just like in mechanic work, alot of the time it's a simple thing causing the problem. I've seen alot of bad grounds and loose or rubbing wires mess up the works.

I have friends that work at Circuit :q:q:q:qty (Thats what they call it, so no offense to those who have or do work there) and the just don't take any pride in their work. Now their personal vehicles kick butt.

 

[crazyman]

I have friends that work at Circuit :q:q:q:qty (Thats what they call it, so no offense to those who have or do work there) and the just don't take any pride in their work. Now their personal vehicles kick butt.

We all had great systems, but you nailed it, no pride. I couldn't stand trying to do a great job, while the guy in the bay next to me is half-assing things and doing his best to cost the customer more money. It just isn't right. Someone comes in for a head unit and leaves with new speakers, amps, whatever, when they would have been very happy if the stereo had been installed and they were on their way. I got so discusted that I woun't even shop there now.

 

[MikeB]

Ok...my power wire is actually whatever guage they sell in the $90 amp installation kits. The wire itself is not as thick as my pinky, but with the insulation it is thicker than a sharpie...I am pretty sure its 'the good stuff".

My ground is very short. I read somewhere that less than 17" is good, so I have it about a foot and a half long(just long enough to mount it in a decent spot, and still have it reach ther amp.

I wont be able to touch this for a few days. I'll snap some pics for you guys.

Thanks!

Sounds like a 6 or 4 guage. Should be fine.
Ground sounds good too.

Any "REAL INSTALLER" will tell you that a monkey can install electronics, the hard part is troubleshooting the problems that come later down the road.

:GotPics:

 

[MikeB]

We all had great systems, but you nailed it, no pride. I couldn't stand trying to do a great job, while the guy in the bay next to me is half-assing things and doing his best to cost the customer more money. It just isn't right. Someone comes in for a head unit and leaves with new speakers, amps, whatever, when they would have been very happy if the stereo had been installed and they were on their way. I got so discusted that I woun't even shop there now.

My favorite story was when the installer put a $350 CD player and another $300 worth of speakers in a Dodge truck without removing the Infinity amp.
The installer heard the distortion and pulled it out the bay.
Four hours later when the customer came back for her ride, the installer told him, and I quote,"I got some good news and some bad news."
He told the customer about the amp bypass and said it would be $150.
She told him where to stick it and wanted her money back.

Two hours later she left with her factory system.

:bash:

I could have bypassed the amp in under 30 min and had a happy customer.

 

[crazyman]

Good for her. I saw people who were unhappy about what was done, who were arguing with the manager, and I had to hold my tounge.Alot of them left with the s*** still in their car and got ripped off. I finally just said f*** this and walked. The problem is that they'll hire anybody. People who don't know anything about the job at hand don't realise that the people doing the job don't know much more. Come to think about it, its very similar to taking your car to a mechanic anymore. Its all money money money. Noone cares about doing a good job anymore. I'm just happy that I can do this s*** myself and don't have to rely on others to keep my cars going.

 

[MikeB]

That also why forums like this are such a good thing. People who know what their doing can share with those who are willing to learn.

I know little to nothing about engines and never claimed to but give me an electrical problem to troubleshoot and I'd bet money on me finding it.

I can't stand people who don't have pride in their work.
If you arn't going to try to do it right don't do it period it just makes it harder on those who are trying. :soapbox:

 

[Undercover Lincoln]

If you screw the ground into the trunk you run into several problems....the metal is too thin to produce a "good" ground.....Also if you do it the right way you will not have problems with the terminal coming loose or apart.

Now, fi you really knew anything about JL audio you would know that they do not do any beta testing outside of their company. All of it is done internally. If by chance you think that the do beta testing, you would have seen the w7 a long long time ago considering that they were designed and developed before the first generation w6 meaning that it is one of the oldest designed woofers. with that in consideration if they did beta testing you would have seen woofers similar if not alike to the w7 during your "beta testing" experience with your shop.

 

[MikeB]

If you screw the ground into the trunk you run into several problems....the metal is too thin to produce a "good" ground.....Also if you do it the right way you will not have problems with the terminal coming loose or apart.

If all seat bolts went to the frame you would be correct but on all the cars I've worked on (thousands) the seat bolt went though a thicker piece of metal that was surrounded buy that same thin metal your referring too.

Now, fi you really knew anything about JL audio you would know that they do not do any beta testing outside of their company. All of it is done internally. If by chance you think that the do beta testing, you would have seen the w7 a long long time ago considering that they were designed and developed before the first generation w6 meaning that it is one of the oldest designed woofers. with that in consideration if they did beta testing you would have seen woofers similar if not alike to the w7 during your "beta testing" experience with your shop.

Yes I did beta test the first JL 500 models, but there is no way for me to prove or for you to disprove that so the point is moot.

Now remember your years, the w7 was just about to come out when I was leaving the car audio business. They were supposed to come out earlier but there was some problem with I want to say the leads being too short or long, I can't remember.

JL (Jerry & Lewis) came up with the w7 as a prototype which spun off the entire JL sub line. Of course it wasn't dubed the w7 till later when they perfected the technology.

Man it's fun to think of the crappy seminars.
But what does this have to do with troubleshooting an amp problem?

My main question is do you have any "REAL INSTALLER" experience or were you just giving your opinion.

I don't have a problem with opinions.

This has been fun. :yourock:

 

[Undercover Lincoln]

you answered the whole argument when you said "the seat bolt went though a thicker piece of metal" this would give you a better ground because the thicker the metal the better conducter it is. When i workered at the stereo shop that i was at, i used to hate when people like came in and where open enough to see that what they are saying is a bunch of bs and that everything that you know is all just a bunch of theories that people come up with that do not know what they are talking about......as far as a installer's stand point i have competed in iasca and the nspl finals for 4 years building other cars to win 1st and 2nd place trophies every year not to mention my own car. i also have a bs dgree in electrical engineering and also my masters in business....so when it comes to electronics i have surpased your knowledge by a long shot!

 

[MikeB]

you answered the whole argument when you said "the seat bolt went though a thicker piece of metal" this would give you a better ground because the thicker the metal the better conducter it is. When i workered at the stereo shop that i was at, i used to hate when people like came in and where open enough to see that what they are saying is a bunch of bs and that everything that you know is all just a bunch of theories that people come up with that do not know what they are talking about......as far as a installer's stand point i have competed in iasca and the nspl finals for 4 years building other cars to win 1st and 2nd place trophies every year not to mention my own car. i also have a bs dgree in electrical engineering and also my masters in business....so when it comes to electronics i have surpased your knowledge by a long shot!

OK!!!
I haven’t heard from you in a while.
I figured you had given up.

I’m glad you have some education and credentials, but I’m still not sure how that surpassed my knowledge “by a long shot.”

I'm not sure if I understand you when you say you “used to hate when people like came in and where open enough to see that what they are saying is a bunch of bs.”
I rather enjoy those types of conversations.

Being that you felt that it wasn’t necessary to read the entire statement, I’ll say it again.

If all seat bolts went to the frame you would be correct but on all the cars I've worked on (thousands) the seat bolt went though a thicker piece of metal that was surrounded buy that same thin metal your referring too.

Now I have some questions, read the whole question before answering.

Will you please explain to me, how the thicker piece of metal will conduct better than a “thinner” piece of metal, if a majority of the metal between that thicker piece and the battery is thin metal.

While your at it, explain how you can say that dozens of nationally certified installers (the ones I’ve worked with) with well over a decade of experience each know nothing but a bunch of theories that people come up with that do not know what they are talking about?

You would think if someone came out with a new theory like yours, someone would have informed the rest of the audio community.

But I regress, please, as an electrical engineer. Explain how, as the electrons flow from the negative terminal of the battery to the amp, it makes a difference connecting to a thicker piece of metal if there is a large bottle neck (“Thinner” metal) for a majority of the way.

 

[BlackIceLSC]

Found the problem today. I used the cool little 'toggle" style test light. You can toggle to test power, and ground.

Checked at the amp connection, and guess what? My 12v source was GROUNDED somewhere. Traced it all the way to......you guessed it... my 40amp fuse holder at the battery.

I have no idea why, but it was shot, the connections for the fuse(inside the bubble) were horrid.

I drove down the street to this "high-end" car audio store, handed him my old fuse holder, and he sais "you need to stop buying these amp installation kits at walmart".

made me feel great about the kit my buddy gave me with the system last summer...but then again...who knows if the guy today was right about its quality.

anyway, fixed that, and THUMP.....THU-THUMP....

Thanks for all your help guys... ALL OF YOU. This site kicks booty!

:gr_hail:

 

[MikeB]

THUMP.....THU-THUMP....

This site kicks booty!

:I Rock on man:dj:

 

[BlackIceLSC]

I appreciate your help Mike...and everyone else!!!

Ray, never did get to talk to ya...might just have to give you a call sometime buddy.

Thanks for the offer.

C