Audio-moron here

[BlackIceLSC]

Ok...I dont know jack about car audio. So, whatever you might suggest, please explain it to a 9 yr old...cuz that's what it will take to get me to comprehend you.

here it is, in a large nut-shell.

About 9 months ago, I did a big job for a friend's 95 mark VIII. he gave me(since I dont take money for my work) a JL Audio amp, a Infinity 12" sub, in an enclosure, and an installation kit.

I had, from a previous car, a Pioneer, in-dash, single CD player. So, since no one would install it for me, I decided to do it...

no problem. I ran the big wire with giant fuse from the battery(fuse is about 6" from battery for safety) to the trunk through an existing(and grommeted) hole in the firewall, I then ran a gorund from the trunk frame structure, about 10 inches, to the amp. The amp is mounted on the side of the enclosure. Then, I installed my head unit, using a "schosche" adapter kit. I ran the speaker output's(RC style jacks) from the head unit, to the trunk, and into the amp. Then i wired the amp to the sub(used good speaker wire).

Ok, so...I didnt "tap" into the existing JBL set up like most do. basically, my head unit plays through the JBL amp, and my sub is directly wired, so the bass plays through it, independant from the JBL.

Fine...it worked KILLER for about 4 months. Then one day it stopped. I removed the set up, double checked all the connections ,and reinstalled. it worked for 5 seconds, then stopped. I fiddled with the "speaker wires" from amp to sub, and it thumped for a second...then stopped.

so, I figured "ok, cheap speaker wires...buy better". So, I did. I re-wired the amp/sub speaker wire connections, and it worked again...for a few months.

it just quit again. I reached back, and fiddled with the speaker wires again...it came on for a few seconds, and quit again. So, I went and bought BETTER(thicker) wires, labelled "for amp/sub installtions"...re-wired the amp to the sub again...nothing.

The amp has "power" since the green power light is on. The "protection" light is NOT on.

I double checked the head unit...nothing else is wrong in the dash...everything is "as it should be".

so...any suggestions? I have NEVER "pushed" this set up. Not once... I have never even turned the volume passed 12 (on a 0-50 range) for fear of blowing my stock speakers.

I dont know what else to check. Any clues guys?

Thanks!

 

[ERIC1]

there is a 3rd wire you need to have connected its the remote turn on wire. its a wire that geta about 6 volts from the radio whrn it is powered up. if this is not connected to a power source it will not turn the amp on. i believe the pioneer head unit has 2 different remot turn on wires one that say power antenna and on that say remote or amp these a generally blue. make sure the wire you use is the amp wire if there are two cause if you use the antenna wire it may only work when you are listening to radio stations and not a cd or tape . you can check the amp by taking a piece of wire and coming off the positive terminal on the amp and goin to the remote if the amp lights you are good and found the problem. if not the amp broke
hope this helps
Eric

 

[BlackIceLSC]

Yea...the remote wire is definately on there. Sorry. I forgot to mention that. I have it hooked up to the head unit, but its on a constant hot so as soon as the head unit is on, the amp is on.

Thanks.

 

[ModPWR]

Yea...the remote wire is definately on there. Sorry. I forgot to mention that. I have it hooked up to the head unit, but its on a constant hot so as soon as the head unit is on, the amp is on.

Thanks.

Sounds to me (pun intended ) like the solder connections at the circuit board inside the amp are weak (so-called cold solder) OR the speaker terminals on the speaker box are lose.

Try to push on the terminals ( I don't know what type of terminals JL uses) both on the amp and the sub box. You might have to take the bottom cover off from the amp and re-solder the connections.

 

[ERIC1]

Sounds to me (pun intended ) like the solder connections at the circuit board inside the amp are weak (so-called cold solder) OR the speaker terminals on the speaker box are lose.

Try to push on the terminals ( I don't know what type of terminals JL uses) both on the amp and the sub box. You might have to take the bottom cover off from the amp and re-solder the connections.

speaker connections have nuttin to do with the power input

 

[ModPWR]

speaker connections have nuttin to do with the power input

I agree they don't, but care to tell me when and where did anyone say he had power supply problems ?

Did you read the original thread ?
If you did, you would know that he has power to the amp all the time.

Changing the wires supposedly helped the problem, which leads me to believe it's the actual terminal to circuit board connections causing the problem.

 

[BlackIceLSC]

speaker connections have nuttin to do with the power input

The amp IS getting power. The ground is good, the "power" light is on. The "remote" wire is good, and the main 12v fused power cable is good.

The speaker wires are the problem.

I think Mod has it right.

The Infinity sub wire connections are the threaded knob type. You unscrew the gold cap to reveal a large hole, and screw the cap down tight to connect the wire.

But this raises a question:
There is a hole in the top of the threaded cap. Is the wire supposed to go down, through the hole, and then poke out through the bottom, and then screwed tight?

I did it like this:
The connections on the back of the sub look like two "thimbles" with a hole down the center of them. I un-screw them to reveal a hole in the bottom that passes from the front through the back of the threaded stud. I simply unscrew the knowb(thimble), pass the wire through, and then screw the knob down tight onto the wire. I can pull on the wires, and they dont budge. Did I connect this right?

On the amp, it uses a allen screw into a base. I unscrew the allen bolt, slide the wire into the base, and screw the allen down tight onto the wire.

I emailed the guy that gave me the amp...it was slightly used...he felt confident it would be sufficient...maybe it simply died.

I'll have to take it off, and take it apart, and see if it needs to be "cold-soldered".

Here is my amp(click image to reveail a close-up):
http://www.jlaudio.com/amps/e1400.html#

Here is a pic of what my sub-speaker connection ports look like:
http://site.audiosaloon.com/store/INFINITY12DVQSIDE.jpg

its hard to tell, but the gold colored knobs unscrew to reveal a hole for the wire.

Thanks guys.

 

[ModPWR]

You got it right at the speaker. You can use the banana plugs also, but simple wire through works fine.

Cold solder is a bad thing. You want to fix that, LOL.

 

[BlackIceLSC]

You got it right at the speaker. You can use the banana plugs also, but simple wire through works fine.

Cold solder is a bad thing. You want to fix that, LOL.

Banana plugs?

also...cold solder is a bad thing? what do you mean? as in, something to worry about, as far as electrical, or safety?

remember...9 yr old mentality.

 

[ModPWR]

Banana plugs?

also...cold solder is a bad thing? what do you mean? as in, something to worry about, as far as electrical, or safety?

remember...9 yr old mentality.

solder melts in high temperature, so if you don't have enough heat while soldering, the connection will be weak. All you have to do is reheat the connections with a solder gun, to the point when solder liquifies.

banana plug ? you thought I was kiddin' huh ?
Search ebay for "banana plug"

 

[BlackIceLSC]

I am now being told by the guy that set me up that my sub may have died. Check this out...he said it could have died by being "under-driven".

and I quote:

"Regarding the amplifier and the woofer. Believe it or not most woofers die from being under driven. It's not the power that kills them, it's the harmonic distortion(multiples of the original frequencies). Don't assume anything. Have both the amp and woofer checked out before making your move."

This would really make me angry. The deal for this stuff was a full JMOD,or a chip, a full tune up with wires, and fuel filter, and new front air suspension install. In exchange, I would get some "bass" installed. Well, I got the components from him, but I had to do the install(as a 100% rookie, who has never even wired a head unit before)...and now, 7 months later, the sub might be dead? From being "under driven"???

I would have LOVED a warning about this. Why would he set me up with this stuff, if it would be self-destructive? I would have gone out and bought a bigger amp(driver?), and thumped the hell out of my trunk.

Oh well.. we'll see. Somehow I really doubt that the sub is dead. It worked, then stopped working, then with new wires, it worked again.

I am leaning towards Mod's theory. I know about soldering...just wasnt up on the terminology. I'll have to crack this amp open and get the ol' soldering gun out, and start melting some stuff!!! :slam

 

[gadget73]

I had similar problems with my Kenwood amp, but mine was on the input side, not the output. The solder connections from the RCA input jacks to the board had broken loose. Simple matter of taking it apart and re-soldering them fixed it nicely. You should be able to check the sub with just a 1.5v battery. If touching the speaker leads to the battery makes it click a little, it isn't an open coil. You can also run it off a standard speaker output from the radio. It won't do much but if you get sound from it, the speaker isn't shot. If the speaker is OK, look to the amp and it's terminals to be the source of your problem.

 

[MikeB]

The guy you bought the equipment from is right about under driven subs, but that only applies to using an amp that is too small (too little power) for the speakers being pushed. I don't beleive this to be the case as long as you have not been beating the living crap out of the speaker.

My sugestion would be to find another cheap speaker (possibly an old factory POS) to use for troubleshooting purposes. If you can't find one for free, Walmart has a great return policy just keep your receipt.

Try connecting the POS to the amp using a different piece of wire to see if the amp is working correctly.

If it plays then you don't have to check the amp wiring or solder joints it's a problem with the box connections or the Infiniti.

Try connecting the POS on the sub end of the first piece of wire in the box.

If the POS works in the box then get yourself a new sub.

Now if the POS didn't work connected directly to the amp there are some things to check before you break out the soldering iron.

Disconnect the power wire and ground from the amp and make sure there is 12v in them. (some amps will light the power light if the remote is on and the amp is grounded through the RCA's the power and ground don't even have to be connected. But the amp won't work.) You have to disconnect them to check because the power and ground connections at the amp will show 12v even if the two wires arn't working.

If the power, ground and remote check out ok then the RCA's could still be a problem. Its poosible that the RCA's have been pulled to hard and broken connection inside the cable. This happens alot when an amp is mounted on a sub box that moves around in the back of the car or when repairs are made to the sound system. In this case, purchase a headphone (miniplug) to RCA adapter (Radioshack $10) and plug a walkman into your amp.

This should at least help you find out what to check next.
Let us know what happens.

 

[BlackIceLSC]

well, its definately the amp. I met up at a Dyno-run today with a few other Mark VIII friends of mine. One of them had a similar set up, and his was easily accesable. I removed my sub, and plugged his speaker wires to my sub and THUMP-THUMP-THUMPITY-THUMP.

So, looks like my JL Audio 2150e is shot, or has some internal issues.

Turns out, another friend of mine has a 2x10's (Kickers)in an enclosure, with a pretty nice amp set up that he is going to give me. yea...thats right...give me. Its his old stuff, and I've helped him alot in the past. So tomorrow, I'll drive down to pick them up.

One day I'll open up the amp, and get the ol' soldering gun out and make whatever repairs it needs. This set up will work great in our 97 LSC, so it wont be a total loss. I really wanted more back there anyway, so 2x10's will set me up nicely.

I want to thank you all for your help. This place is awesome.

Mike, J, Gadget, Eric, everyone...thanks a bunch.

 

[MikeB]

Glad it worked out for ya. :Beer

It always sucks when ya ain't got tunes.

 

[BlackIceLSC]

well, got back today. Just installed my "2x10" Kickers" and a Kicker amp...all pre-wired/set up nicely.

Found the problem, becuase they too didnt work. Either I lost my ground, or my 12v power source has an issue.

I then took some aligator clips and wired the amp directly to a 12v source, and got the bass. I diconnected the negative clip, and lost the bass...so I 'm pretty sure my ground is bad.

I used a magnet to test the X-brace behind the rear seat, and it is definately sheet-metal, not aluminum(you never know with the Lincolns), so I cleaned the surface where the ground bolt was mounted for a clean ground...yet still nothing.

So, what I'll have to do is re-trace evey wire from the battery, back to the amp.

The good news is, looks like my old set up was fine. Just need to start over I guess. I am just puzzled that it was working fine for 9 months, then suddenly stopped.

Oh well...thanks for the help guys.

 

[MikeB]

Either I lost my ground, or my 12v power source has an issue.

That phantom power light will get you every time (ground from the RCA's or 12v positive from the remote).

The best way to ground an amp is to the frame or floor of the trunk with aftermarket screws or bolts. Simpler is better. When you know for a fact that there are no moving parts or bushings between the amp and the battery its done right.

The power wire is easy fuse it and make sure it's connected(to the right terminal :N ).

Good luck.

 

[BlackIceLSC]

That phantom power light will get you every time (ground from the RCA's or 12v positive from the remote).

lost me there.

Yea, I am going to peel back the trunk carpet, and create a better ground. I know the 12v fused connection(hot) is correct. I double checked it yesterday to be sure nothing hd come loose(allen screws), and all is good.

I origianlly was grounded to the rear shelf where the JBL amp, and other accessories are stored...that seemed to work fine with my original set up, but then stopped working. So I relocated the ground yesterday as a test procedure, to the X brace behind the seat.

Looks like I'll floor the ground.

Thanks Mike.

:Beer

 

[MikeB]

(some amps will light the power light if the remote is on and the amp is grounded through the RCA's the power and ground don't even have to be connected. But the amp won't work.)

There is a very small ground wire in the RCA cables that once connected between the amp and radio feeds enough ground to let the power light come on but the amp won't play.

This is known as a "Phantom Power Light" because the light shouldn't be on.

It's very common for experienced installers of car audio to miss this problem as not all amps will do this.


When I was Installing/Managing, a major part of my time was spent troubleshooting electrical systems and other installers problems.

 

[Undercover Lincoln]

first of all the jl amps do not need a remote wire. there is a switch that will allow it to turn on whenever it recieves a signal from the radio. I would trouble shoot the following

Test the following with a volt ohm meter:
Make sure you are recieving atleast 12 volts when the car is off at the amp and atleast 13.5 volts with it on
make sure you are recieving the correct amount of ohms from the sub if it is a 4ohm sub you should get 4 ohms at the amp give or take .5ohms
Make sure you have a good ground usually you can use a bolt that holds a seat to the floor.
the remote wire if you do have one it should read 12 volts give or take 1 volt
rca cables should be plugged into the correct output and if it is a new radio (made in the past 5-6 years) you will have to turn the sub output on, on the radio
Check and make sure you donot have any wires pinched
make sure the rca's on the amp are plugged on the input port and not the output
all else fails go to the local stereo shop and they will help you for a couple bucks

 

[MikeB]

first of all the jl amps do not need a remote wire. there is a switch that will allow it to turn on whenever it recieves a signal from the radio.

I completely forgot about that, but I'm glad you brought it up.
I don't know how old that JL amp is but I was managing a store when the first 500's were sent to us for beta testing (before mass sales testing). They had problems with the internal switch that made it so you wouldn't need a remote wire, so JL sent out a tech note to connect the remote till the next generation came out. (something to do with the amp shutting off in between songs and making strange noises as it came back on)

But my feeling is simpler is better, If the amp came with a remote conection and you don't have to do any more work (because you have to run the RCA's anyway) why not use it. Plus if you upgrade your amp later you may need the remote wire for the new amp.

usually you can use a bolt that holds a seat to the floor.

Thats a good idea if you'r mounting an amp under the front seat possibly, but if the amp is in the trunk and the closest seat bolt is going to be the rear seatbelt bolt or in that area.

I like to have the ground screwed or bolted where it can be easily seen (under the trunk liner is fine) where it be checked without removing the rear seat.

If you are satisfied with a bolt that you find in the trunk area then try it.

I know my way will work. Again, simpler is better.

all else fails go to the local stereo shop and they will help you for a couple bucks

Be very carefull with this one, I've see many different shops take advantage of people in your situation. The shop wants to sell new merchandise, not fix your old stuff. I've seen perfectly good equipment fried by accident and on purpose by installers because they didn't know what they were doing or because they wanted you to buy a new amp from them.

Ever heard this one before, "Yea man this amp is fried but I'll hook you up with a new one for cheap?"

The bottom line is, if they didn't sell it to you, they don't care if it works or not.

Not all shops are bad and I would like to think most arn't, just be carefull.

 

[BlackIceLSC]

I appreciate all your efforts guys. I have some friend's that have some home-installed systems, and they are going to help me out.

First off, the JL Amp did have a remote wire connection, and i was using it. Also, the only RCA's on these amps are for the signal from the stereo to the amp. The rest are all those allen screws that you loosen, slide the bare wire in, and tighten. This includes my 12v power source, ground wire, remote wire, and speaker wires.

Also, my ground, currently is less than 15" long, as recommended by the amp/sub manufacturer, although it is a thick-ass wire(thicker than a pencil) I still kept the ground short. I have it ground with a nice fat bolt through the eye-connector, to the X-brace behind the back seat, in the trunk. I am going to relocate that ground to the trunk floor.

I am pretty confident that I installed this correctly because it was working just fine from June to November. Thats when it quit. Then I replaced the amp-to-sub speaker wires, and it worked again. Then it quit a second time, so i bought some high-dollar speaker wires for the amp-to-sub connection, but to no avail.

I appreciate all your help, but after my little test yesterday, I am 90% sure its a bad ground.

 

[Undercover Lincoln]

Don't Half-ass The Install

if your power wire is the size of a pencil then you need to up grade it to some 4gauge wire. you have a bad ass amp and why submit it to high resistant wire. and by the way your ground wire is highly recommendedto be grounded to a thick piece of metal such as the frame where the battery in your car is grounded. your rear seats is the best option. you also do not want your gound no more that 3' long the shorter the better....same principle applies to your power wire...the shorter the better. ALL OF THE OTHER WISE GUYS THAT HAVE THEIR OWN THEORIES ABOUT HOW TO INSTALL A AMP KEEPS IT TO YOURSELVES.....IF ANYBODY WANTED TO SPEND THE MONEY ON A REAL AMP (JL AUDIO) THEY SHOULD HAVE A REAL INSTALL....NOT ANYTHING THAT A BESTBUY OR CIRCUIT CITY INSTALLER WOULD DO!!!!!!!!!

 

[BlackIceLSC]

Ok...my power wire is actually whatever guage they sell in the $90 amp installation kits. The wire itself is not as thick as my pinky, but with the insulation it is thicker than a sharpie...I am pretty sure its 'the good stuff".

My ground is very short. I read somewhere that less than 17" is good, so I have it about a foot and a half long(just long enough to mount it in a decent spot, and still have it reach ther amp.

I wont be able to touch this for a few days. I'll snap some pics for you guys.

Thanks!

 

[crazyman]

if your power wire is the size of a pencil then you need to up grade it to some 4gauge wire. you have a bad ass amp and why submit it to high resistant wire. and by the way your ground wire is highly recommendedto be grounded to a thick piece of metal such as the frame where the battery in your car is grounded. your rear seats is the best option. you also do not want your gound no more that 3' long the shorter the better....same principle applies to your power wire...the shorter the better. ALL OF THE OTHER WISE GUYS THAT HAVE THEIR OWN THEORIES ABOUT HOW TO INSTALL A AMP KEEPS IT TO YOURSELVES.....IF ANYBODY WANTED TO SPEND THE MONEY ON A REAL AMP (JL AUDIO) THEY SHOULD HAVE A REAL INSTALL....NOT ANYTHING THAT A BESTBUY OR CIRCUIT CITY INSTALLER WOULD DO!!!!!!!!!

I worked for Circuit City installing stereos. Its almost a crime, some of the things they do. You guys are absolutely right about techs f***ing up equiptment just to sell new stuff.(Which is why I quit.) Your best bet is definetly to find someone independant to help with the install/problems. For that matter, there are many websites that give all the info you need to install even complex systems. Just like in mechanic work, alot of the time it's a simple thing causing the problem. I've seen alot of bad grounds and loose or rubbing wires mess up the works.