America's Judgment - A Losing War with Islam

[fossten]

It's sad but true that even in the midst of supposed ally countries like Saudi Arabia, children are being taught in schools that Americans and Jews are evil blood-drinkers who must be killed. Certainly a small percentage of them will grow up to become suicide bombers.

It is a well-known fact that Islam is a warlike, malevolent, restrictive religion that locks down any country it rules. Because of these core beliefs, which are taught in Middle Eastern countries, America has always been and shall always be enemy number one. Israel is hated, true, but America is the real threat because she has proven she can conquer a Middle Eastern country. President Bush made a grievous error when he announced that Islam is a peaceful religion. He should have called it what it is. Now America must pay the price.

Look back in history, you Arab apologists. You will see that Israel has not shown a tendency to attack Arab nations without provocation. History shows that Israel tends to keep to herself and, in fact, against her better judgment, has capitulated to Bush's pressure to withdraw from places like Gaza. It is the Arab nations that have sponsored hate and terrorism, making Israel and the US their favorite targets. It is the Arab nations, principally Saudi Arabia and Iran, who have sponsored groups like Hezbollah and Hamas, even to the point of allowing them to openly house headquarters in places like downtown Tehran.

Israel will not take on every Arab nation in the Middle East. Iran will not allow the US to intervene. If the US tries to help, Iran will shut down the Strait of Hormuz, throttling our oil supply and the oil supply of nations around the world. What will we do then? Go in and invade Iran? If we do that, we will have to continue and take over the entire Middle East. Not feasible. Not because we don't have the military power, but because we don't have the political will. Democrats and nearly half of Americans want us to cut and run, as evidenced by the election results of 2004. We will continue to tolerate Ahmadinejad, high oil prices, and terrorism. That is America's judgment for tolerating Islamic hate.

The Europeans have the power to shut down the Middle East too. But why should they care? It's only a bunch of stupid Jews, right? Ask the Germans if they care if the Holocaust had finished off the Jews. Ask the French. Not a chance. Everybody hates the Jews. Who gives a crap? Only America. Never in the history of mankind has a few small nations managed to bully so many powerful nations. Yet it's happening as we speak.

Meanwhile, Iran has been working on nukes for twenty-five years. That's right. TWENTY...FIVE. Think they don't already have nukes? You'd better believe it. How easy would it be for a cargo ship to sail into Chesapeake Bay and launch a "Scud in a bucket" (http://www.fragmentsfromfloyd.com/fragments/2005/05/an_electrically_decapitated_am.html) and wipe out Washington, D.C. while the President and Congress is in session? Too easy. And we'd never trace the country that did it. Not that we'd be able to. We'd have to have governors from 50 states digging deep into the Constitution, trying to figure out who's supposed to replace five or six hundred elected leaders. By the time the dust clears, America could be out of the picture for two or three years while we nursed our wounds.

Thanks be to Allah and the al-New York Times and the Democrat National Press for exposing national security secrets and endangering our nation. They only hasten the defeat of the Great Satan. Thanks be to the lying Democratic Party for criticizing the President in time of war and weakening our resolve to go after the source of terror in the world: Arab nations like Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran.

 

[formerknown]

But...but...it's the religion of PEACE!

 

[DonLino]

Liberals will be the downfall of America.

 

[mark0101]

President Bush made a grievous error when he announced that Islam is a peaceful religion. He should have called it what it is. Now America must pay the price.

[/B]

It is a peaceful religion, its people like the extremist that make the religion bend to their own will.

 

[fossten]

It is a peaceful religion, its people like the extremist that make the religion bend to their own will.

Excuse me, but Islam is NOT a peaceful religion. This has been established on this forum in the past. Look at history. Islam has been at war with the Jews or the world since Ishmael was born. From the Crusades until now, Islam has had a jihad with everyone who isn't a follower of Mohammed.

The very name ISLAM means "submission." Mohammed's teachings are clearly to conquer, dominate, or kill every person/persons who is an infidel.

What you are referring to are the extremists who are actually doing the fighting. But make no mistake, these people are taught to believe and act this way by the clerics and imams of mainstream Islam.

Have you ever read the Shari law? You would change your tone if you did.

 

[Barwick]

Liberals will be the downfall of America.

"Distress everywhere makes the laborer mutinous and discontented, and incline him to listen to agitators who tell him that it is a monstrous iniquity that one man should have a million while another cannot get a full meal.

The day will come when in the State of New York, a multitude of people, none of whom has had more than half a breakfast or expects to have more than half a dinner, will choose a legislature. On one side is a statesman teaching patience, respect for the vested rights, strict observance of public faith. On the other is a demagogue, ranting at the tyranny of capitalists and usurists, and asking why anybody should be permitted to drink champagne and ride in a carriage while thousands of honest people are in want of necessities. Which of these candidates is likely to be preferred by a working-man who hears his children cry for bread?

...your republic will be as fearfully plundered and laid to waste by the barbarians in the twentieth century as the Roman Empire was in the fifth, with the difference that the Huns and Vandals who ravaged the Roman empire came from without; and that your Huns and Vandals will have been engendered within your own country by your own institutions." - Thomas Babington Macaulay

 

[Barwick]

It is a peaceful religion, its people like the extremist that make the religion bend to their own will.

I truly wish that were true. But look at it like this:

A strict fundamentalist Christian (only follow exactly what the Bible says, aka "Sola Scriptura") would have no Biblical justification for slaughtering innocent people because they won't convert, slaughtering them for leaving the Christian faith, etc...

A strict fundamentalist Jew CAN find parts of the Torah (the Old Testament) that says something similar to "attack this country and occupy it, and do not spare their people, whom are evil". BUT, these "commands" are HISTORICAL records of what God said to the Jewish people. There are no ongoing commands to murder people, etc.

A fundamentalist Muslim CAN find all kinds of parts of the Koran that says to invade other nations and force the people to convert to Islam. If they don't convert, and they are Christians or Jews, then the Koran commands them to let them live, and make them into slaves. And this is a CURRENT, ONGOING, modern-day command that all Muslims ARE commanded to do.

It's no religion of peace. If you want to know the truth about Islam, there's an easy to read booklet put together, and available online:
http://www.allgrace.com/miscdoc/The Truth Behind Islam.pdf

 

[MonsterMark]

Looks like Mr. Barwick is adding a little gravitas to the conservative argument. Good work!

 

[mark0101]

Excuse me, but Islam is NOT a peaceful religion. This has been established on this forum in the past. Look at history. Islam has been at war with the Jews or the world since Ishmael was born. From the Crusades until now, Islam has had a jihad with everyone who isn't a follower of Mohammed.

The very name ISLAM means "submission." Mohammed's teachings are clearly to conquer, dominate, or kill every person/persons who is an infidel.

What you are referring to are the extremists who are actually doing the fighting. But make no mistake, these people are taught to believe and act this way by the clerics and imams of mainstream Islam.

Have you ever read the Shari law? You would change your tone if you did.

I am a muslim and I have never been taught to kill all non muslim people by the Imams. From my past understanding, Islam means PEACE, this what I have been taught from pakistan and here.

 

[TheDude]

I truly wish that were true. But look at it like this:

A strict fundamentalist Christian (only follow exactly what the Bible says, aka "Sola Scriptura") would have no Biblical justification for slaughtering innocent people because they won't convert, slaughtering them for leaving the Christian faith, etc...

A strict fundamentalist Jew CAN find parts of the Torah (the Old Testament) that says something similar to "attack this country and occupy it, and do not spare their people, whom are evil". BUT, these "commands" are HISTORICAL records of what God said to the Jewish people. There are no ongoing commands to murder people, etc.

A fundamentalist Muslim CAN find all kinds of parts of the Koran that says to invade other nations and force the people to convert to Islam. If they don't convert, and they are Christians or Jews, then the Koran commands them to let them live, and make them into slaves. And this is a CURRENT, ONGOING, modern-day command that all Muslims ARE commanded to do.

It's no religion of peace. If you want to know the truth about Islam, there's an easy to read booklet put together, and available online:
http://www.allgrace.com/miscdoc/The Truth Behind Islam.pdf

I read a portion of the link and it was nothing more than a bunch of chest beating 'My religion is better than yours' crap. Anyone with a great working knowledge of the Qur'an could tear apart what that guy claims. Take Surah 5:51, the verse where it states something along of the lines of "Do not take Jews or Christians as friends." Do a little research online, that is often used by people to divide and vilify Muslims and it is misinterpreted and taken out of context. As Mark0101 said, nut jobs like to take a religion (any religion) bend it how they see fit and use it as a tool to justify their own hatred, greed, insanity etc. etc. Articles like that just divide people and spur on the hatred.

 

[mach8]

I read a portion of the link and it was nothing more than a bunch of chest beating 'My religion is better than yours' crap. Anyone with a great working knowledge of the Qur'an could tear apart what that guy claims. Take Surah 5:51, the verse where it states something along of the lines of "Do not take Jews or Christians as friends." Do a little research online, that is often used by people to divide and vilify Muslims and it is misinterpreted and taken out of context. As Mark0101 said, nut jobs like to take a religion (any religion) bend it how they see fit and use it as a tool to justify their own hatred, greed, insanity etc. etc. Articles like that just divide people and spur on the hatred.

I believe the actions of the moslems around the world divide people and spur hatred. Look at what they are doing, they can't seem to get along with anyone.
It's true religion and government have gone hand in hand throughout history with very sorry results, which is why the Constitution of the United States forbids the establishment of a state religion. Learn from the past.............
In our time and place Islam is a malignant force disrupting the entire world. This may change in the future, but with the Hitler of our time pounding the drums of war and hate in Iran I think the world is in for a hell of a time.

 

[fossten]

I read a portion of the link and it was nothing more than a bunch of chest beating 'My religion is better than yours' crap. Anyone with a great working knowledge of the Qur'an could tear apart what that guy claims. Take Surah 5:51, the verse where it states something along of the lines of "Do not take Jews or Christians as friends." Do a little research online, that is often used by people to divide and vilify Muslims and it is misinterpreted and taken out of context. As Mark0101 said, nut jobs like to take a religion (any religion) bend it how they see fit and use it as a tool to justify their own hatred, greed, insanity etc. etc. Articles like that just divide people and spur on the hatred.

Your statement is fine unless you take a look around. Look at the evidence. The proof is in the pudding. Look at all the muslim societies: malevolent in the extreme and warlike. Your statement doesn't fit with the facts.

Even the Chicoms are afraid of their own muslim provinces.

 

[TheDude]

I believe the actions of the moslems around the world divide people and spur hatred. Look at what they are doing, they can't seem to get along with anyone.
It's true religion and government have gone hand in hand throughout history with very sorry results, which is why the Constitution of the United States forbids the establishment of a state religion. Learn from the past............. .

Correct, it is their actions; but shifting the blame on their own skewed view of religion is ridiculous.

I completely agree that mixing religion & government is wrong; it's like oil to water.

In our time and place Islam is a malignant force disrupting the entire world. This may change in the future, but with the Hitler of our time pounding the drums of war and hate in Iran I think the world is in for a hell of a time.

If I take a rifle and kill an innocent person with it; who's to blame, myself or the rifle?

 

[TheDude]

Your statement is fine unless you take a look around. Look at the evidence. The proof is in the pudding. Look at all the muslim societies: malevolent in the extreme and warlike. Your statement doesn't fit with the facts.

Even the Chicoms are afraid of their own muslim provinces.

So if I kill 6 million people in the name of Christianity does that make Christianity an evil religion? Historically most societies with deep religious roots tend to be warlike; but again, who do you blame, the religion or the maniacs that bend it to fit their needs and the puppets that blindly follow?

Believe what you like, but your 'Muslims are evil incarnate' mind setting is not the way you want to think, just my opinion.

 

[fossten]

So if I kill 6 million people in the name of Christianity does that make Christianity an evil religion? Historically most societies with deep religious roots tend to be warlike; but again, who do you blame, the religion or the maniacs that bend it to fit their needs and the puppets that blindly follow?

You would have no credibility by doing so, because nowhere in the Bible does it command you to murder anyone. In fact, the Bible even condemns hate, equating hate to murder.

The Ten Commandments include "Thou shalt not kill", meaning 'murder.'

But the Quran commands its followers to strike off the heads of unbelievers.

See any difference?

FYI Hitler was an atheist and a student of Darwin.

Believe what you like, but your 'Muslims are evil incarnate' mind setting is not the way you want to think, just my opinion.

That is an incorrect, blatantly false representation of not only my mindset, but also anything I've said. Stop putting false words in my mouth. Your straw man won't hold up, because I was talking about Islam, not Muslims being 'evil incarnate.'

O'Reilly sums it up nicely:

"Tomorrow, if the terrorists stopped killing and laid down their arms, the violence in the Middle East and in Iraq, for that matter, will stop. Tomorrow, if Israel throws all of its weapons into the Mediterranean Sea, there will be another Holocaust."

 

[Barwick]

I read a portion of the link and it was nothing more than a bunch of chest beating 'My religion is better than yours' crap. Anyone with a great working knowledge of the Qur'an could tear apart what that guy claims. Take Surah 5:51, the verse where it states something along of the lines of "Do not take Jews or Christians as friends." Do a little research online, that is often used by people to divide and vilify Muslims and it is misinterpreted and taken out of context. As Mark0101 said, nut jobs like to take a religion (any religion) bend it how they see fit and use it as a tool to justify their own hatred, greed, insanity etc. etc. Articles like that just divide people and spur on the hatred.

Oh really? That's funny, because I've never met a person who can disprove what he says of Islam, so... let's hear it.

 

[Barwick]

Correct, it is their actions; but shifting the blame on their own skewed view of religion is ridiculous.

I completely agree that mixing religion & government is wrong; it's like oil to water.

George Washington disagreed...

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness

So did John Adams:

It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue.

also,

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Quincy Adams also disagreed:

There are three points of doctrine the belief of which forms the foundation of all morality. The first is the existence of God; the second is the immortality of the human soul; and the third is a future state of rewards and punishments. Suppose it possible for a man to disbelieve either of these three articles of faith and that man will have no conscience, he will have no other law than that of the tiger or the shark. The laws of man may bind him in chains or may put him to death, but they never can make him wise, virtuous, or happy.

So to did Fisher Ames, framer of the First Amendment:

Our liberty depends on our education, our laws, and habits . . . it is founded on morals and religion, whose authority reigns in the heart, and on the influence all these produce on public opinion before that opinion governs rulers.

And Charles Carroll (signer of the Declaration of Independence):

Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, [and] which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and [which] insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.

Benjamin Franklin's take on it (remember that of all the founding fathers, he was about the closest to athiesm out of them all):

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that "except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.

Judeo-Christian principles are foundational to the existence of the American Republic. However, forced religion is in strict opposition to the principles of the American Republic.

 

[Barwick]

So if I kill 6 million people in the name of Christianity does that make Christianity an evil religion? Historically most societies with deep religious roots tend to be warlike; but again, who do you blame, the religion or the maniacs that bend it to fit their needs and the puppets that blindly follow?

Believe what you like, but your 'Muslims are evil incarnate' mind setting is not the way you want to think, just my opinion.

If (like you can do with the Quran) you could point to the Bible where it UNMISTAKABLY gives a continual commandment to kill people in the name of Christianity until the entire world is Christian, then yes. You can't pick & choose which parts of a religion to follow. If Christianity endorsed that via the Bible, it would be an invalid religion.

 

[mark0101]

I have no idea if the Quran says to kill all non belivers but I doubt it. I have a Quran that translates to english, so when I get finished with it, I will refer back to this post to tell you if it really says that. Islam is not a hateful religion, it respects every things.

 

[taylor414ce2003]

. If Christianity endorsed that via the Bible, it would be an invalid religion.[/QUOTE]

arent all religions invalid-

 

[TheDude]

George Washington disagreed...

There's a thread or two already on this board dealing with this; yes, those quotes do exist, but there are other quotes from the same men that contradict what you posted.

 

[TheDude]

. arent all religions invalid-

Depends on whether or not 'faith' is enough to convince you. Scientifically speaking though, it is impossible to prove the existence of God, in any incarnation.

"Yes I've gotta have faith... a faith... a faith... a faith..."

George Michael

 

[fossten]

Depends on whether or not 'faith' is enough to convince you. Scientifically speaking though, it is impossible to prove the existence of God, in any incarnation.

"Yes I've gotta have faith... a faith... a faith... a faith..."

George Michael

You are scientifically incorrect. It is possible to prove the existence of God, and I'll do it right now.

Science is defined in many ways, but one of the most important parts of science is observational models. We will now put science into action to prove that God exists.

Look at that computer screen. Examine the structure of your monitor and tower. You can see that it is designed. It was not randomly formed by colliding molecules; a guiding force made it. You did not witness its creation, nor did you need to witness it in order to make the valid assumption that someone made it. You know someone did without anyone having to argue the point with you. In fact, if someone tried to convince you that your computer was luckily formed over billions of years by the random collision of molecules, your mind would logically reject that notion. "No way!" you'd say.

Now look around you. Look at the planet, with its myriad ecosystems and plant and animal life, look at the complexity of the human body. Look at the earth's magnetic field and the gravitational pull. Look at the seasons, the tilt and rotation on the axis. Note the moon and how it affects the tide. Now look at the solar system. Note how complex galaxies are, yet so insignificant compared to the vast universe. You cannot use the same powers of scientific observation that you just used on your computer and not come to the exact same conclusion: That Someone designed and created it.

Now consider this. If you say that there is no God, then you must take the position that we humans are nothing but a random collection of molecules, without a purpose. That means that everything you do is without meaning. That also means anything you say is without meaning, a useless jumble of words.

Now no matter what you say next in response, you must either posit that your words have meaning or they don't. If you say there is no God, then your words mean nothing and you mean nothing, which also means you could just as well be wrong, since your words are just random processes anyway.

If you say your words matter, you must acknowledge there is a God.

 

[mach8]

If I take a rifle and kill an innocent person with it; who's to blame, myself or the rifle?

The rifle is obviously a tool you've used to achieve your ends.

Islam is the tool being used by some to achieve their ends.

It is used to inflame the young, ignorant, and intolerant to shift power to those who currently don't have it, and lust for it. It is used as a justification for acts that foul the soul. To ignore the role Islam plays in our world at this time just because you may feel it doesn't reflect your view of Islam is just sticking your head in the sand.

Isn't it a bit far fetched to assert that a persons life is meaningless, without purpose if a God doesn't exist? This is the very kind of thinking which leads people to create "GODS" and subvert their lives to manmade rites.

 

[fossten]

Isn't it a bit far fetched to assert that a persons life is meaningless, without purpose if a God doesn't exist? This is the very kind of thinking which leads people to create "GODS" and subvert their lives to manmade rites.

Hey, I didn't start this conversation, Deville did. We're talking about science here, ok? If you are just a meaningless jumble of molecules, nothing you say has real meaning. It's just random, right? Therefore what you just said was random and meaningless too. Who knows if you even meant to say it or not.