4.4 L Land Rover Engine-Same as our 3.9L?

well if the blocks are the same then all you know is that the 4.4l is a much larger bored and stroked version of the 3.9l, then it is possible.
as for the motor having that much of an overbore compared to the 4.2/4.0/3.9 bores, there is not much worry.
I'm sure that the 4.4l block is either designed to take a larger cylinder sleeve or it has a different casting core designed to allow for the larger standard bore.

I would not want to try and bore an 3.9/4.0/4.2l block out 0.10" unless I was sure that I had sleeves for it and that the block was designed to accept sleeves from the begining.

anyway, if the 4.4/4.2 share the same block height and are just taller deck versions of 3.9/4.0 block then the LS heads should bolt on to the block and the lower intake could be sectioned and stretched to fit the block. The timing cover might need some massaging to fit, but it would all seem do-able.
then you start looking at can the trans take the power, will the rear hold up, and can I get it all under the hood?

Hmmm.
 
From what little I've found, the 3.9 is a de-stroked 4.0; the 4.2 is a stroked 4.0; and the 4.4 is a stroked and bored 4.0. I haven't found anything that gives a clue as to the deck height, so it's entirely possible that they all use the same basic block with only a different crank and con rods (and pistons).

If they do all use the same basic block, it should be at least theoretically possible to do a lower-end swap (long block) if you have a good XCal tuner to make any necessary adjustments to the PCM--as long as they didn't do something crazy like change the firing order (again, ala the 5.0 and 5.8, which had different firing orders until the 5.0 HO started snapping crankshafts).
 
Yeah those were the lines I was thinking about, but even if the 4.4 is taller deck block (ala the 5.8 vs 5.0 blocks) then the intake lower could be sorted out and the firing order would just involve some wiring harness pin swapping (again just like some of us handled 5.8's going to 5.0 chassis).
the 4.4 might be big enough to require a larger fuel pump and larger injectors but they should not be that hard to find (Like probably the injectors from the Range rover in the first place).

I'm really getting interested in this, I just hope that I can not blab it around my wife before I can get all the pieces sorted out.

keep the thoughts and the details comming.
Can anyone find a 4.4 block and get some measurements or more detailed specifications.
I'll look tomorrow myself, when I'm not packing.
 
I really like the idea you guys have here. I was kind of wondering the same thing, since I have a little knowledge of 302s, 351s, and 289s of the carb era. Its amazing how many parts can be swapped between these engines. I can't hardly think it would have been cost effective for ford to not make the 3.9 comparable to other engines. However, is a 4.4, 4.0, or, 4.2 goinig to be cheap enough to try this? I figured those blocks would be exspensive since they came in Jags and Land Rovers. I'm sure some have the cash to try it and I hope they do. I'd just hate to waste money if it is a no starter
 
It might be cheaper to buy a complete 4.6L DOHC than a 4.4L long block, but the 4.6 would require completely redesigning the LS's electronics, while the 4.4 would only (theoretically) require an XCal and the services of someone like Torrie to adjust some PCM parameters. This makes it an eminently more feasible project.

Of course, this is entirely theoretical to me, 'case I'm not even contemplating anything like this for the next 6 years or 75,000 miles. ;)
 
The Shogun

The festiva, with the 24v v-6 sitting inside the rear hatch, was the "ShoGun" I still have the MT or C&D it was in sitting around here, somewhere. Surprised anyone remembers it.
 
Jag Engine Swap

clubairth said:
Found a water pump listing for the 3.9L LS engine. It also included a 2005 LR3 Land Rover 4.4L V-8. This is also built on the AJ Engine platform?
Anybody have more information? It would be great to slip in another .5 L if the engine needs to be replaced?
Click to expand...
I ran across this thread by accident while 'surfing'. The answer, of course, is that you simply use the LS wiring harness as much as possible and tune with an Xcal. The four litre Jag I'm installing in my '02 LS is almost a drop-in. The oil filter location is different, but I'm going to a dry-sump so it makes no difference. The cam position sensors are in the cam covers on the Jag but the Xcal can change the way the computer reads this input so that's only one more thing to look at when re-flashing. There is some degree of cross-breeding necessary, but all of this is very do-able. For more info see my thread in the HP section---'Land Speed LS'.
KenS from Ben's Place
 
Hey Trebor, Do the 3.0 and the 3.5 V6 share any of the same componets that you are aware of? I have thinking about a 3.0 to 3.5 swap for the V6 for a while now. It would be nice to pick up some extra horsepower an extra 26 hp. I looked at one in a Ford Edge and it looked very simular to my 3.0. just curious to know?
 
LEOV5 said:
Hey Trebor, Do the 3.0 and the 3.5 V6 share any of the same componets that you are aware of? I have thinking about a 3.0 to 3.5 swap for the V6 for a while now. It would be nice to pick up some extra horsepower an extra 26 hp. I looked at one in a Ford Edge and it looked very simular to my 3.0. just curious to know?
Click to expand...

Read it. Know it. Love it. And have fun if you ever try to do it. Just get a tune and some bolt-ones, you'll make up the horsepower difference cheaper and easier.
 
try the swap. everyone thought supercharging and turbocharging was insane due to the high compression ratio. but now all we can do is sit by the curb and hope it comes it kit form while the boosted pioneers are leaving their tire in thin lines down the pavement. its an expensive gamble to be sure, but if you got the brass and the deep pockets why not? the main problem i see is that we're not talking about a chevy 350 swap where you can find the engine lying around whole by the MILLIONS in junk yards... a land rover engine probably carries a bit more of a signifcant price tag. but with enough time and insanity anything is automotively possible.
 
MMAFIGHTER121 said:
try the swap. everyone thought supercharging and turbocharging was insane due to the high compression ratio. but now all we can do is sit by the curb and hope it comes it kit form while the boosted pioneers are leaving their tire in thin lines down the pavement. its an expensive gamble to be sure, but if you got the brass and the deep pockets why not? the main problem i see is that we're not talking about a chevy 350 swap where you can find the engine lying around whole by the MILLIONS in junk yards... a land rover engine probably carries a bit more of a signifcant price tag. but with enough time and insanity anything is automotively possible.
Click to expand...

Why don't you try it? :rolleyes:

Seriously. As the old saying goes, "Anything is possible with enough money". When someone asks a question like this, its more or less a given that money is an object. After all, if money was no object, there wouldn't be much point in bothering to ask if something could be done, it would just happen.

So can it be done? Sure. Does it make any practical sense? No. As I stated before, the gains realized by swapping a 3.5L Duratec for a 3L Duratec can most likely be realized through intake, exhaust and tune. So probably around $1000 total, just taking a complete shot in the dark guesstimate. Otherwise you'd be looking at likely $1000 for the engine alone, and I think the SCT Pro Racer Package was going for around $700 last time I looked, and you're going to need that to make the engine run right. So you're already several hundred dollars behind the simple bolt-on mods. You're also making a huge assumption the new engine is a direct bolt in for the old engine. I would bet massive sums of cash its not, so there's the wildcard "miscellaneous custom labor" that may or may not be able to be completed by the owner, and may or may not require expensive additional parts. So we'll take a complete and total guess and put that around $1000. So you're already up to $2700, and that doesn't even begin to include all the miscellaneous things necessary for the new engine (fluids, gaskets, etc) because no one would be foolish enough to go through all this pain and risk :q:q:q:qing something up because they were too lazy to give the engine a thorough reconditioning before putting it in their car.

Then there's labor cost, and call me skeptical, but I doubt someone with the ability to do an engine swap would be asking questions like "Is it possible to put this engine in to this car?", so considering most shops charge around $75 per hour and its probably around 15 hours of labor time to perform the swat, there's another $1200 or so.

So $4,000 for 26 horsepower? Thats a :q:q:q:qty way to spend your money if you ask me.
 
Look guys, it is only an inquiry at best. What if my engine went south next month. I would have to do a rebuild or complete replace. I would have my info at hand to do the upgrade to the 3.5. I don't want my engine to go south, but you never know. We all talk and ask questions here. I don't need replys that are all negative. Just asking questions thats all. How do you think I got that SST shifter in my 05' V6 car and it works just fine. I think maybe I should just stop posting here and get real answers from the llsoc group. Hey bigballedox you don't even have any pictures of your LS on here or what you have done to it. Do you even own an LS?
 
JES_LS said:
okay, I understand the 5.0 to 5.8 issues as well as a 4.6 dohc to 5.4 dohc swap in a mustang.

Yea my buddy has a 03 cobra (a running driving car i might add) it has a 5.4l dohc navigator block fully built by some company (cant remember the name) with HIS 4.6l dohc cobra heads fully built. he is running a direct sullavan 4.6l dohc replacment intank. the only thing he had to do is put these spacers between the intank and the heads , due to block height deferances. the car is single turboed and make just shy of 1500whp. What i'm getting at is that you can make it work even with different deck heights. it just would take some fabbing.
Click to expand...
 
LEOV5 said:
Look guys, it is only an inquiry at best. What if my engine went south next month. I would have to do a rebuild or complete replace. I would have my info at hand to do the upgrade to the 3.5. I don't want my engine to go south, but you never know. We all talk and ask questions here. I don't need replys that are all negative. Just asking questions thats all. How do you think I got that SST shifter in my 05' V6 car and it works just fine. I think maybe I should just stop posting here and get real answers from the llsoc group. Hey bigballedox you don't even have any pictures of your LS on here or what you have done to it. Do you even own an LS?
Click to expand...

I love people like you who have no clue what they're getting in to and then get pissy when someone puts a little dose of reality in their coffee. Of course, if you were smart enough to notice you would have figured out that I didn't say it couldn't be done, I just said it would be ridiculously impractical. But hey, don't mind me, I obviously don't have a clue about what I'm doing. And what the :q:q:q:q does having pictures of my LS on here have anything to do with A.) owning the car and B.) more importantly, being completely right?
 
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