4.4 L Land Rover Engine-Same as our 3.9L?

[clubairth]

Found a water pump listing for the 3.9L LS engine. It also included a 2005 LR3 Land Rover 4.4L V-8. This is also built on the AJ Engine platform?
Anybody have more information? It would be great to slip in another .5 L if the engine needs to be replaced?

 

[Quik LS]

when you read the many threads on engine swaps you will see that this is a non-starter.

 

[JES_LS]

I guess I'm having a 'dain bramage' morning since I can't seem to find any of the threads on the 4.4 range rover/3.9 lincoln swap issues.

Lou, could you give me an example of a good one.

also why is it that the new s type jag's V8 is not an option?

 

[Quik LS]

It's all in the PCM.

The current s-type only sares the block with the LS and none of the electronics - so a swap would be extremely difficult.

We can't even swap an 03+ engine into a pre-03 LS.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

An electric water pump would be cool.

 

[Fla02LS]

Found a water pump listing for the 3.9L LS engine. It also included a 2005 LR3 Land Rover 4.4L V-8. This is also built on the AJ Engine platform?
Anybody have more information? It would be great to slip in another .5 L if the engine needs to be replaced?

Wow... Liter envy. Thats a new one.

 

[JES_LS]

okay so the PCM is totally different,
That is a major hiccup in a swap of that magnatude,

but that leads me to two questions,

1. is the 4.4l long block the same as the LS's, so I could maybe do a sleeper stroker swap. (like the old 351 block in place of a 302).
2. Is the PCM of the 4.4l from the same family of controls as the LS or the Jag. I ask this because I was repeatedly told that there was no way to make my 88 mustang compatable with a 90 tbird sc motor, but all it really took was a LOT of patients. And I can be a very patient individual.

 

[Quik LS]

1. is the 4.4l long block the same as the LS's, so I could maybe do a sleeper stroker swap. (like the old 351 block in place of a 302).

it is not. however - the 4.0L Jag block is a 'stroker' version of our 3.9L - but a lot of work to et it into an LS.

2. Is the PCM of the 4.4l from the same family of controls as the LS or the Jag. I ask this because I was repeatedly told that there was no way to make my 88 mustang compatable with a 90 tbird sc motor, but all it really took was a LOT of patients. And I can be a very patient individual.

the PCM is one of seven control modules that work as a unit in the LS - and none are the same as the Jag. I do not know what the LR uses for their controls - but unlikely it is as expensivee/complicated as the Jag or LS.......

 

[2001LS8Sport]

I am still of the belief that the swap of a short block is entirely possible. This assumes that the new short block is of the same architecture as the 3.9. The use of your current heads, intake, accessories, etc should allow the use of the stock electronics...albiet with some tuning. You would need to get with Torrie and play with the tune. But you are playing in unknown territory when it comes to the tune, so it could get expensive. You would also need to recalibrate the transmission. That's a whole other novel....

 

[clubairth]

Don't believe every thing you read! I come from the SHO world. For YEARS we were told the bigger 3.2 L would NOT bolt into the smaller 3.0 L manual transmission cars. But it does and it works GREAT!! What it took was somebody with guts to try it out!

The 4.4 L Land Rover long block can not be very different if the water pump is the same? I can not find out if the Land Rover uses the VVT but it probably does. So the question might be to use the bigger short block with the current LS heads and other accessories. With the XCAL now available the programming should be possible to handle the increased air flow from the increases engine volume.
But I also read that the Land Rover 4.4L is a BMW engine?
.
.

 

[SoonerLS]

Don't believe every thing you read! I come from the SHO world. For YEARS we were told the bigger 3.2 L would NOT bolt into the smaller 3.0 L manual transmission cars. But it does and it works GREAT!! What it took was somebody with guts to try it out!.

I hope you mean the 3.4L V8, not the 3.2L SHO V6; surely, nobody would be foolish enough to say that the 3.2L SHO and 3.0L SHO were each built on a different chassis...

 

[SoonerLS]

The 4.4 L Land Rover long block can not be very different if the water pump is the same? I can not find out if the Land Rover uses the VVT but it probably does. So the question might be to use the bigger short block with the current LS heads and other accessories. With the XCAL now available the programming should be possible to handle the increased air flow from the increases engine volume.

If the relationship between the 4.4L and 4.0L AJ-V8s is like that of the 302 and 351W (or 5.0 and 5.8 for those of you who think a carb is something you avoid on the Atkins diet ), even though they have the same bore, they won't be interchangeable--they'll have different deck heights, which means a different intake manifold. If that's true, the Lincoln heads not only have to mate up to the Jag block, but also to the Land Rover intake (which is not a given).

But I also read that the Land Rover 4.4L is a BMW engine?

The 4.4L is Jaguar AJ-V8. It replaced the BMW mill that powered the Landy when Ford acquired Land Rover from BMW.

 

[JES_LS]

okay, I understand the 5.0 to 5.8 issues as well as a 4.6 dohc to 5.4 dohc swap in a mustang.

so if the 4.4l is the tall block version of the 3.9-4.0 block then a pair of ls lower intake manifolds and a welder will be needed among other frabrications.

Hey Quik, how much clearance does the bare (no plastic shrouds) v8 ls motor have to the hood.
I'm getting that itch again (don't tell my wife).

 

[Mac98SHO]

I hope you mean the 3.4L V8, not the 3.2L SHO V6; surely, nobody would be foolish enough to say that the 3.2L SHO and 3.0L SHO were each built on a different chassis...

The 3.0 V6 to the 3.2 V6.. I believe is what he's talking about. If I remember that is common engine swap for SHO.

You can make the 3.4 a manual.. but it would take a lot of money I am not willing to spend.

 

[Fla02LS]

To JES LS...Where are you getting this 5.8 stuff? Have you ever owned a GM? Its a 5.7L. I am assuming your talking about the 305 and 350. And also, you started this whole Land Rover thing just in case you ever had to put a new engine in, now your all about making a switch. Are you the type of person that is never happy or satisfied with anything? Or are you just the type that desire's attention and trying to make something out of nothing...ie coil poll. Maybe some redneck may want to take all these different types of motors to swap in a camaro or mustang but your talking about a luxury vehicle. A Lincoln. Is it really that important to you to make a "sleeper" out of LS. How many people need to tell you that its the electronics with the LS that isnt going to make it happen. The amount of time and work and money your talking is just stupid. Are cars that big a part of your life? Do you make money racing? Is there a guy down the street you just cant wait to race and beat in your Lincoln? Why do i feel like this isnt the only forum you post on? And at the very end of all this nonsense your talking about a 20 hp difference between the engines. Just be a p*ssy and put some nitrous on it and go racing around. But i am pretty sure you'll come back some post bashing me and then just continue your stupid idea of putting a Land Rover engine in your car.

 

[SoonerLS]

I'm not having any luck in finding any 4.4L dimensions other than bore X stroke, but baed on that, it looks like the 4.4L is a bored-out 4.2L (which is a stroked 4.0L, and the LS's 3.9 is a de-stroked 4.0L). The one reference I found indicates that the 4.4L has a bore that's 0.1" greater than the 4.2L (and 3.9L), but it doesn't indicate if that has any impact on bore spacing.

I'm used to going .030 over on the bore; I'm not sure about going 0.1" over, and how that would impact the heads (no pun intended).

 

[SoonerLS]

Where are you getting this 5.8 stuff? Have you ever owned a GM? Its a 5.7L.

Umm, I mentioned the 5.8, which is a 351 Windsor, just like the 5.0 is a 302. Both are Ford Windsor V8s; GM has jack to do with anything in this discussion.

 

[Fla02LS]

Umm, I mentioned the 5.8, which is a 351 Windsor, just like the 5.0 is a 302. Both are Ford Windsor V8s; GM has jack to do with anything in this discussion.

My bad, i forgot this is a Lincoln/Ford enthusiast site. How dare i.

 

[SoonerLS]

My bad, i forgot this is a Lincoln/Ford enthusiast site. How dare i.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you'll go to heck for that one.

 

[2001LS8Sport]

To JES LS...Where are you getting this 5.8 stuff? Have you ever owned a GM? Its a 5.7L. I am assuming your talking about the 305 and 350. And also, you started this whole Land Rover thing just in case you ever had to put a new engine in, now your all about making a switch. Are you the type of person that is never happy or satisfied with anything? Or are you just the type that desire's attention and trying to make something out of nothing...ie coil poll. Maybe some redneck may want to take all these different types of motors to swap in a camaro or mustang but your talking about a luxury vehicle. A Lincoln. Is it really that important to you to make a "sleeper" out of LS. How many people need to tell you that its the electronics with the LS that isnt going to make it happen. The amount of time and work and money your talking is just stupid. Are cars that big a part of your life? Do you make money racing? Is there a guy down the street you just cant wait to race and beat in your Lincoln? Why do i feel like this isnt the only forum you post on? And at the very end of all this nonsense your talking about a 20 hp difference between the engines. Just be a p*ssy and put some nitrous on it and go racing around. But i am pretty sure you'll come back some post bashing me and then just continue your stupid idea of putting a Land Rover engine in your car.

Some of us like doing this stuff just because of posts like this. And it gives us satisfaction.

Go look at the Mark VIII forum. There are some seriously modded cars there. I wonder why Quik is s/c his car?

If someone builds it, someone will race it. I don't care how luxurious it is. For God's sake they race lawn mowers.

If you think the electronics can't be overcome, you're sadly mistaken. It's all a matter of how much time and effort you're willing to spend and how good you are. You sound just like the vast majority of folks who freaked out when cars first went fuel injected and ECM controlled. They thought the world of hot rodding had come to an end. Then when OBD II came out, it was the same thing all over again. Now, with the latest generation of engine controls involving a CAN bus, we have discovered that not only can it be modified, but the new architecture lends to even better changes. It's just a matter of time until innovative folks go to town and figure it all out.

I can flat promise you that I could put a small block chevy in a Lincoln LS and make it run just fine. I guarantee it. The problem I would have is integrating the dash and other networks. That would take someone with a much broader understanding of the engineering involved. It's just a matter of how much time and money you want to spend on a project and whether or not it would be worth it to you.

 

[Mac98SHO]

While ago someone.. put a V6 SHO motor in Festiva.... this looked odd, but I bet it was quick.

 

[SoonerLS]

The 3.0 V6 to the 3.2 V6.. I believe is what he's talking about. If I remember that is common engine swap for SHO.

You can make the 3.4 a manual.. but it would take a lot of money I am not willing to spend.

My point was that in all the time I dealt with the SHO, I never heard anyone say that you couldn't put a 3.2L SHO in the place of a 3.0L SHO--of course, most of the guys I knew who were modding SHOs (and I) thought that it was a lot of expense for not much gain, just a total 5 ft-lbs more torque and better torque lower in the power band.

 

[SoonerLS]

While ago someone.. put a V6 SHO motor in Festiva.... this looked odd, but I bet it was quick.

That was the SHOgun--Jay Leno has one. It's also a rear-driver; they took the entire SHO drivetrain and grafted it into the rear of a Festiva. It was trhe brainchild of a couple of brothers, and they were going to put it into production, but I don't remember what happend to those plans.

 

[Fla02LS]

I remember as a kid my dad having a rental car that was a Festiva. What a joke. Those things have one purpose and thats being in a circus with clowns piling out of it.

 

[Trebor]

Sweat & Money vs Reward, which is greater?

QuickLS is right.
I work at Windsor Aluminum Plant, we make the 3.0 Duratec and the 3.9 Litre engine blocks.

With variable cam timing and other electronic changes, we increased horsepower from 252 to 280.
Ahhhh!! Horsepower! It's a good thing.

With these changes, I think it would be hard for a swap. Not impossible. It matters how much time and money you want to put into the effort.
Sometimes it's not worth it.

With the money and the amount of time required for a swap, I'd prefer to switch to Diesel, bio-diesel to be exact. A Mercedes or VW diesel enigine, with a module can accept bio-diesel (vegetable oil) from McDonalds or a potato chip factory (very clean oil due to their quality and frequent oil changes). This can mean 25-50 cents per gallon (when you factor in the cost of filtering the oil and the additive used to make the oil not gel-up during cold months), after the intial set-up.

Go to http://www.greasecar.com/ for details. I learned of this site when I watched a CNBC special on alternative fuels.

Trebor.