2004 v6 transmission shifting hard, stuttering

N

nhschutt

New LVC Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
Houston
Hi, I'm new to this forum, but I already have a question regarding my 2004 LS. I'm seeing two problems with my transmission (v6 engine). I'm wondering if anyone else has seen and if there's any solution out there.

My car has 9,000 miles on it, but I think the problem started soon after I purchased it last Februrary.

#1: Often when I accelerate from a stop or a slow speed and then apply the brakes, the transmission slams into the next gear hard, accompanied by a loud thunk, which appears to come from the rear end. The car sometimes lurches forward when it happens.

#2: When I'm travelling at a very slow speed (in 2nd gear, I guess) and then hit the gas (but not necessarily hard), it feels like the transmission is slipping or maybe trying to decide whether or not to shift down. It's unnerving because it can cost a second or longer before the car shifts down and then goes.

The engine accelerates great, I see no problems with its performance; the problems seem to occur around switching gears.

I took the car back to the dealer a few weeks ago and they said they could not reproduce the problem, which didn't surprise me since it doesn't happen all the time. I can't seem to figure out how to consistently reproduce it, either. No codes were present in either the engine control computer or in the transmission control computer. Two lincoln dealers have basically told me that I have to wait until the problem gets worse before they can fix it.

Thank you to anyone who can help...

-Nick
 
I have an '03 V8 Ultimate and had the same impression of the trans when I got it. I've researched it on the net, discussed it with the dealership and have never resolved the problem. I came to the conclusion that I simply think the trans on this car sux (French Bastards) and I particularly hate the drive by wire response...or lack thereof. I like the car otherwise and will keep it for a while, but wont get another. The trans on my Explorer felt absolutely sofisticated by comparison. Maybe a Stang when the new Cobra comes out...with a 6 speed!
 
I tend to agree about the lag and the shifting issues; those are about all I don't like about the car. Otherwise, the car is fun to drive and very comfortable.

I was really hoping for another answer; I still do think that mine is behaving badly; I test drove two different LS's initially and I was given a loaner LS (same model and year) when I took mine in for service, and none of those cars showed the bigger problem (only slow response, not hard shifting at the wrong times or stuttering while shifting down at low speed).

The first thing I thought when I saw that the transmission was made in France, is why would I want an automatic transmission from a country in which virtually no one actually drives cars with automatic transmissions? One other thing I joked about was being able to afford to replace a transmission or two vs. a competitor's car since the incentives were so good!

That's about the definition of irony, I guess.



Ric said:
I have an '03 V8 Ultimate and had the same impression of the trans when I got it. I've researched it on the net, discussed it with the dealership and have never resolved the problem. I came to the conclusion that I simply think the trans on this car sux (French Bastards) and I particularly hate the drive by wire response...or lack thereof. I like the car otherwise and will keep it for a while, but wont get another. The trans on my Explorer felt absolutely sofisticated by comparison. Maybe a Stang when the new Cobra comes out...with a 6 speed!
Click to expand...
 
The trans is made in Livonia, MI. Some of the internal parts are made in France. Sounds like you need to take your service manager for a ride and show him the problem. There has been some concern in the situation you described with a "confused shift logic" response. The trans gets confused by your abrupt change in input. There are some TSB's on this (mainly '03's, though). Use the words "delayed or harsh shifting" when describing the problem. That should lead them to the TSB. The fluid could also be low. Low fluid will cause some interesting shifting.


The "clunk" may be just the driveshaft unloading. The LS doesn't use traditional "U" joints. There is a fixed mounting point at either end, with a carrier bearing in the midle. It really is quite a piece of work! Much better able to handle high speeds than a traditional driveshaft.
 
Thank you for the suggestions.

I asked about the transmission fluid level and he said that they don't check it unless they get an error code (the manual suggested checking it, too, but it doesn't tell you how to do it).

There are definitely moments when it seems to be thinking about which gear to pick which also made me think it might be a computer issue; I wonder if this will show up on a monitor. I'm going to data-log with a scan tool to see. I found that you can actually read the gear number and the position of some transmission sensors.

Maybe I need to try another dealer. It's such an intermittent problem that I might have to take it in several times before they even see it. I mean, one day I'll get in the car and not notice it at all. Another day it will be subtle. Yet another day it will be in-your-face bad. If it's a fluid level, I wonder if it will get worse as the weather gets colder.?
 
nhschutt said:
Thank you for the suggestions.

I asked about the transmission fluid level and he said that they don't check it unless they get an error code (the manual suggested checking it, too, but it doesn't tell you how to do it).

There are definitely moments when it seems to be thinking about which gear to pick which also made me think it might be a computer issue; I wonder if this will show up on a monitor. I'm going to data-log with a scan tool to see. I found that you can actually read the gear number and the position of some transmission sensors.

Maybe I need to try another dealer. It's such an intermittent problem that I might have to take it in several times before they even see it. I mean, one day I'll get in the car and not notice it at all. Another day it will be subtle. Yet another day it will be in-your-face bad. If it's a fluid level, I wonder if it will get worse as the weather gets colder.?
Click to expand...


DEFINITELY find another dealer! Low fluid will never throw a code!
 
LS4me said:
The trans is made in Livonia, MI. Some of the internal parts are made in France. Sounds like you need to take your service manager for a ride and show him the problem. There has been some concern in the situation you described with a "confused shift logic" response. The trans gets confused by your abrupt change in input. There are some TSB's on this (mainly '03's, though). Use the words "delayed or harsh shifting" when describing the problem. That should lead them to the TSB. The fluid could also be low. Low fluid will cause some interesting shifting.


The "clunk" may be just the driveshaft unloading. The LS doesn't use traditional "U" joints. There is a fixed mounting point at either end, with a carrier bearing in the midle. It really is quite a piece of work! Much better able to handle high speeds than a traditional driveshaft.
Click to expand...


Correction:

The trans is made in Sharonville, OH.
 
tranny update

I took my car to a mechanic I know to try to check the fluid level. Fluid poured out of the tranny when we opened the inner screw under the pan. According to the directions, it should barely drip out. My guess is that there was too much fluid. The directions are confusing enough, however, that after two attempts to check the level we decided to leave it as-is. I think that what we saw means that there was too much fluid in the tranny. The car seems to be shifting much better now, but I'll need a few more days of driving to be really sure. If everything's ok, I think I should open up that center screw (not the outer bolt, but the screw inside it) some more and let some more out.
 
2004 LS with hard shifts problem

nhschutt said:
Hi, I'm new to this forum, but I already have a question regarding my 2004 LS. I'm seeing two problems with my transmission (v6 engine). I'm wondering if anyone else has seen and if there's any solution out there.

My car has 9,000 miles on it, but I think the problem started soon after I purchased it last Februrary.

#1: Often when I accelerate from a stop or a slow speed and then apply the brakes, the transmission slams into the next gear hard, accompanied by a loud thunk, which appears to come from the rear end. The car sometimes lurches forward when it happens.

#2: When I'm travelling at a very slow speed (in 2nd gear, I guess) and then hit the gas (but not necessarily hard), it feels like the transmission is slipping or maybe trying to decide whether or not to shift down. It's unnerving because it can cost a second or longer before the car shifts down and then goes.

The engine accelerates great, I see no problems with its performance; the problems seem to occur around switching gears.

I took the car back to the dealer a few weeks ago and they said they could not reproduce the problem, which didn't surprise me since it doesn't happen all the time. I can't seem to figure out how to consistently reproduce it, either. No codes were present in either the engine control computer or in the transmission control computer. Two lincoln dealers have basically told me that I have to wait until the problem gets worse before they can fix it.

Thank you to anyone who can help...

-Nick
Click to expand...


I also have a 2004 LS with just under 10k miles. It is in the shop right now for the third time on this hard shift issue. When I accelerate hard (between 4-5k rpm's the trans with shift very hard from 2nd to third. What I gave learned so far is that the trans adapts to your driving style. There is a "keep alive memory" that stores the transmission settings. When they reset mine the problem disappeared for a couple of weeks and then gradually came back. On my next visit they said their was TSB advising they load a new version of the control program. The problem again came back as before. So they are currently doing more research. The GM of the dealership said it may also be a rear end problem which they may have to replace. That's where I am at now.
 
I have a 2004 V6 and I have experienced the hard shift from 2nd to 3rd a couple times. My dad is a shop foreman for a Lincoln dealership and he has said this was common as the transmission does learn. If you don't properly "teach" it, this problem will continue to occur. Obviously this is something I am sure they are trying to fix, but as for now, not to omuch you can do. As for the noises though, I haven't had a problem at all. My only problem has been with the stock tires, which is a known issue if you talk to any Lincoln mechanic. I have 23,000 miles on mine. I never got to test drive a 2004 V8, but when I test drove the 2003 V8, I had the same problem you noticed with yours. It would seem to hesitate for a second before actually moving. I didn't have this problem with the V6 which is why I got it. I couldn't justify the extra $8000 just to go V8 when I didn't see that improvement. I wish I had now as everything aftermarket seems to be V8 though. Plus, I have heard they fixed that problem with the 2004 V8.
 
Hard Shifts

Did your Dad advise you on the proper way to train the transmission so the hard shift will not occur?



VTOgre said:
I have a 2004 V6 and I have experienced the hard shift from 2nd to 3rd a couple times. My dad is a shop foreman for a Lincoln dealership and he has said this was common as the transmission does learn. If you don't properly "teach" it, this problem will continue to occur. Obviously this is something I am sure they are trying to fix, but as for now, not to omuch you can do. As for the noises though, I haven't had a problem at all. My only problem has been with the stock tires, which is a known issue if you talk to any Lincoln mechanic. I have 23,000 miles on mine. I never got to test drive a 2004 V8, but when I test drove the 2003 V8, I had the same problem you noticed with yours. It would seem to hesitate for a second before actually moving. I didn't have this problem with the V6 which is why I got it. I couldn't justify the extra $8000 just to go V8 when I didn't see that improvement. I wish I had now as everything aftermarket seems to be V8 though. Plus, I have heard they fixed that problem with the 2004 V8.
Click to expand...
 
Hi! I am having a very similar issue with my 2004 LS V8 engine. The dealership also could not find any codes to put into the computer so therefore there was not a problem but now my car is having engine problems where the car is shaking and it does not want to start. THe shifting problems started when I 1st got the car and it jerks when merging onto the parkway. I would love to get some info b.c this is not a safe car to drive. And I have had lincolns for 12 years. This is the 1st one that I have had problems with.
 
Ric said:
The trans on my Explorer felt absolutely sofisticated by comparison.
Click to expand...

In reference to the overall shift quality of the LS transmission in general...

:soapbox:

With the years of experience the auto companies have in building automatic transmissions this sort of stuff shouldn't be happening... especially not on a vehicle that goes out the door for $40K+ and has a lot of thought put into other things.

Mine is in the shop right now for some other none transmission related stuff and for a loaner I got an 03 Sable... :eek2: sad to say but that thing shifts a lot better than any LS I've driven.

I hope sooner or later somebody in either LMC or the aftermarket figures out what the problem is and comes up with a fix because aside from that I don't have any other legitimate complains about the vehicle. :Bang :soapbox: :Beer
 
I have been through several transmission component replacements. The solenoid pack in my 00 V6 Sport has been replaced 3 or 4 times, i have lost count now due to the sheer volume, and o the last visit they replaced the solenoid pack and the valve body.

I had hasrh shifting, when going in to reverse there were long delays followed by a hella kick.

However, since the last component replacement which included the valve body I have had no problems.

I really would have thought Lincoln would have this tranny ship shape by now. I hate to say it but the problem is not going to go away so stay on their butts and do not hesitate to call them out about in the waiting room. Don't get ugly; just use civil disobedience. If you have to make them keep the car till they duplicate it. They should have a senior tech drive to and from work everyday till he can duplicate the problem.

I gave them my car for over 90 days once.
 
I have already posted a couple times about this. I just had my car in the shop, 2004 V6 as well, for the same reason. I thought it was a PCM reflash thing, but it turns out it wasn't. There were no codes to pull, so don't take any crap from the dealer about that one. It ended up being the solenoid packs. I do believe the dealer as well since the service manager there is my dad. I would take it to the dealer and have them ride with you to show them exaclty what you are talking about. And maybe even bring up the reflash and the solenoid thing, even though they will hopefully already know what to do.
 
it kills me how these shop techs treat a car that doesn't throw obdII codes as if it is not broken. For Pete's sake the darn things are not just computers and codes. The probelm can exists without some code being thrown.

These guys have totally abandoned their craft.
 
problem with my tranny fixed...

I finally got my car fixed. I took it to another dealer and explained the problem. They had it for almost 2 weeks, but they ran some tests and actually found the problem to be a sticky solenoid. They replaced the pack and now the problem is gone...

Of course, though, two days later I started the car and heard a loud bang from under the hood and then the car sputter and stopped running. Turned out to be a hose on top of the engine that came loose. I was on my way to work & didn't have a lot of time, so I took it to the dealer who couldn't fix the transmission; they were able to reconnect the hose, at least! With wire ties...

The first dealership's service guy actually took the time to look up what the other dealer did (I didn't give him my name; he went out of his way to find it when I asked for another service guy) and tell me that they over-fixed the car and that all I really needed was the new fluid additive.

I have a used volkswagen and got pretty much the same treatment from them when I took it in under their "certified used" warranty; "there's no code, our techies drove it around the block, it didn't stall, so it's not broken." It stalled twice the next day. It ended up being something in the tank blocking the fuel pump (I took it apart and got lucky). I even got a letter from the dealer thanking me for choosing them to service my vehicle. Maybe most brands are like this nowadays...
 
I think there is a recall on these where there is hard shifting. They add a bottle of fluid that is a friction modifier that is supposed to clear this up. You need to make sure this has been done or you will have bigger problems later.
 
Re:

02lsv8sport said:
I think there is a recall on these where there is hard shifting. They add a bottle of fluid that is a friction modifier that is supposed to clear this up. You need to make sure this has been done or you will have bigger problems later.
Click to expand...


I also have a 2004 LS with the V6. I have noticed the same problem with the transmission at just under 6000 miles. After doing much research on the 5R55S transmission (the same one in all 03-04 LSV6's) I came to the conclusion that it is not worth visiting the dealer as the reflash would not correct the problem, and there is nothing mechanically wrong with the transmission. The recall notice 02lsv8sport is talking about is not a true recall, but just a courtesy maintainence. Ford says that during production the wrong transmission fluid was added to the vehicle, if you bring your vehicle into the dealer before 03/31/05, they will add the bottle of 5R55S transmission fluid viscosity corrector. Hopefully this will help eliminate the problem.

NHSchutt,
Per the LLSOC website, the following is the correct way to check the transmission fluid on the 5R55N transmission which i believe is the SST on the V8, keep in mind that on our V6's we have the 5R55S transmission, so the plug locations may be different... According to the post, there should not be any fluid draining out of the bottom (front) plug if the fluid level is correct (or low).
"5. How do I check the transmission fluid level? (Once again, Thanks Mark!)
#641 of 650: Checking the level in the 5R55N Automatic Transmission (mkovalsk) Sun 30 Jul '00 (01:56 PM)
Here's how to check the fluid level in the 5R55N
automatic transmission:
The car needs to be on a hoist and level. The transmission must be between 100 F and 120 F.
Remove the center plug in the transmission pan drain. A small amount of fluid may drip out. Also remove the plug in the rear extension housing. Add fluid in the rear plug until fluid runs out the bottom. When the fluid stops running out the bottom, the level is correct. Replace both plugs."

Hope this helps... When this car is based on the 500/Montego for the redesign in 2007 we'll see a better tranny, either the 6speed auto or the CVT.
 
VTOgre said:
I have a 2004 V6 and I have experienced the hard shift from 2nd to 3rd a couple times. My dad is a shop foreman for a Lincoln dealership and he has said this was common as the transmission does learn. If you don't properly "teach" it, this problem will continue to occur. Obviously this is something I am sure they are trying to fix, but as for now, not to omuch you can do. As for the noises though, I haven't had a problem at all. My only problem has been with the stock tires, which is a known issue if you talk to any Lincoln mechanic. I have 23,000 miles on mine. I never got to test drive a 2004 V8, but when I test drove the 2003 V8, I had the same problem you noticed with yours. It would seem to hesitate for a second before actually moving. I didn't have this problem with the V6 which is why I got it. I couldn't justify the extra $8000 just to go V8 when I didn't see that improvement. I wish I had now as everything aftermarket seems to be V8 though. Plus, I have heard they fixed that problem with the 2004 V8.
Click to expand...
I HAVE A 2000 LS V6 AND IT'S BEEN GIVING ME PROBLEMS. I BOUGHT IT AT ABOUT 25,000 AND I STARTED HAVING PROBLEMS LIKE THE CAR WOULDN'T START. THEN MAYBE A FEW HOURS LATER IT WOULD START UP LIKE IT'S BRAND NEW. NOW AT 42,800 THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING MORE OFTEN. I'VE TAKEN TO THE DEALERSHIP NUMEROUS TIMES AND I'M TOLD EVERYTHING'S FINE, BUT STILL GET A BILL AND THE PROBLEMS STILL GO ON. THE ALARM STARTED COMING ON AROUND THE SAME TIME EVERDAY, AFTER I TOOK TO DEALERSHIP. MOST RECENTLY AFTER I SUSPECTED IT MIGHT BE THE FACTORY ALARM SHUTTING THE FUEL PUMP OFF AND THE TRUNK SENSORS MIGHT BE WHAT'S CAUSING THE FUEL PUMP TO SHUT OFF. I WAS ABLE TO GET THE CAR TO START AFTER PUSHING TRUNK SENSOR UP, BUT AS SOON AS I CLOSED THE TRUNK, THE CAR SHUTS OFF. I POINTED THIS OUT TO THE DEALERSHIP AND GAVE A DEMO. THEY TOLD ME IT WAS FAULTY WIRING AND THE PROBLEM WOULD BE FIXED. THAT WAS LAST MONDAY AND $200 AGO AND IT'S STILL DOING THE SAME THING. SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP. I TOO HAVE TAKEN THE CAR TO SHOP SEVERAL TIMES AND I KEEP BEING TOLD EVERYTHING'S FINE.
 
No it is happening to the V8's as well. After going through 4 repairs on my LS at the dealership you get the opportunity to talk to a lot of people such as customers, techs and service advisors. The techs were the more forthcoming with information than any of the others and without any prompting they were always quick to tell their war stories.

The valve cover issue isn't jsut isolated to the V8s either. I unfortunately know from experience twice and have spoken with the techs and they see them more on the V8 but have done numerous V6s.

If you have noticed any delayed engagement when you shift to reverse you are well on your way to having the problem. It always seemed more pronounced in reverse but as time went by I would begin to notice problems with upshifting.
 
Hmm, I was thinking of getting a used LS within two weeks- is this something I should be concerned about, if I'm not getting an '04 model, like an '02 or '03?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 283 (members: 0, guests: 283)
Back
Top