2002 El Dorado

[white lincoln]

Hi all,
I am thinking about getting a 2002 Eldorado but am not very familiar with them. i am and have been for a long time a Lincoln owner and currently have a beautiful 95 Town Car, fully loaded.

What are the things to watch our for with these cars? This car has 51k on and the dealer wants 11.9 for it (from the KBB book). I offered 7.5 (from the NADA book - that is what my credit union uses for loans) and have not heard back yet. I have no plans on selling the Town Car, I just put new brakes in the rear and plan on investing a chunk of money on the front end so it is staying with me.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[mark0101]

The northstar engines love to blow headgaskets so have someone test it out before you buy it.

 

[white lincoln]

I have heard that and my f-i-l's 95 Caddy blew a head gasket as well as cracked the block. Maybe I should stick with Lincolns....

 

[mark0101]

It's a hit or miss with them from what I have read. Some will go 200K+ no problems but most will have HG problems. They did do a redesign of the N* after the 2000 model year I think, so it has that going for it. It would be good to have it as a toy car but don't expect the reliability of a Town Car. Cost to fix them will also be more than a Town Car.

 

[white lincoln]

Excellent points guys, thank you!

It's a hit or miss with them from what I have read. Some will go 200K+ no problems but most will have HG problems. They did do a redesign of the N* after the 2000 model year I think, so it has that going for it. It would be good to have it as a toy car but don't expect the reliability of a Town Car. Cost to fix them will also be more than a Town Car.

 

[eots44]

I agree, with Northstars, they are most receptive to HG problems in 90's models, 2000-2003 they got better but the issue was still apparent. 2004-2011 is there best years when a new bolt design was used successfully fixing the problem. They also like to leak oil in some cases due to a leaky crank case design. It isn't uncommon for a Northstar to reach over 200,000 miles, GM actually designed them to last very long, the highest I have personally seen was 427,000 miles on a 2007 DTS. to give you a figure, about 1 in 5 Northstars in the 1990's actually blew head gaskets. There are many cases of Northstars of the 90's and early 2000's that owners have never experienced an issue. Personally I wouldn't consider anything older then 2004 just because of the better reliability, I certainly wouldn't pay 11.9 for a 2002 Eldo though.

 

[white lincoln]

Would a DTS be a better choice for a long lasting car like my Town Car?

If so, what the 2005 a good year?

Also, did the DTS come with adjustable pedals and steering wheel?

I agree, with Northstars, they are most receptive to HG problems in 90's models, 2000-2003 they got better but the issue was still apparent. 2004-2011 is there best years when a new bolt design was used successfully fixing the problem. They also like to leak oil in some cases due to a leaky crank case design. It isn't uncommon for a Northstar to reach over 200,000 miles, GM actually designed them to last very long, the highest I have personally seen was 427,000 miles on a 2007 DTS. to give you a figure, about 1 in 5 Northstars in the 1990's actually blew head gaskets. There are many cases of Northstars of the 90's and early 2000's that owners have never experienced an issue. Personally I wouldn't consider anything older then 2004 just because of the better reliability, I certainly wouldn't pay 11.9 for a 2002 Eldo though.

 

[eots44]

Well it really all depends on how a car was taken care of, Town Cars are a very hard car to compete with in terms of reliability, how long are you looking for the car to last? From 2000-2005 Cadillac made the Deville in 3 trim levels, Base, DHS(Deville High Luxury Sedan), and DTS (Deville Touring Sedan), I would say in those years a base or DHS would be a better bet, DTS models are more expensive to own, and have a very expensive road sensing suspension which cost a pretty penny to work on. From 2006-2011, Cadillac eliminated the Deville name plate and just called it DTS, and for one of those I would go with a Lux I or Lux II. However, like I said it's a 10+ year old used car, and it's hard to tell how it was kept and treated, that could turn a perfectly fine Deville, to an endless money pit nightmare. Will it last as long as a Town Car? It's possible, but most owners just don't drive them that long, overall the Deville and later DTS in my personal opinion and the opinion of car review sites, is a better car then the Town Car, more power, handles better, more attractive inside and out, and better equipped, but the Town Car has incredible reliability on it's side.

 

[roman_capps]

a pothead I knew owned a 97 deville with the northstar engine she sold it for 1 $ and she tried to sell it to me but a guy bought it and the pothead thought she blew the head gasket when it just needed coolant she was pissed.

 

[white lincoln]

Well... that's a pot head for you... some people grow out of it.

Anyway, so what is so bad about the head gasket? I have replaced mine TWICE on my 94 Cougar with the POS V6 in it. Talk about a lemon. But boy does it drive nice! Is there something worse on the Northstar head gasket than say my Ford V6?

Here is the car I was looking at to buy: http://www.garciacadillac.com/Vehic...2dr_Touring_Cpe_ETC-Albuquerque-NM/2311858233

a pothead I knew owned a 97 deville with the northstar engine she sold it for 1 $ and she tried to sell it to me but a guy bought it and the pothead thought she blew the head gasket when it just needed coolant she was pissed.

 

[eots44]

Well... that's a pot head for you... some people grow out of it.

Anyway, so what is so bad about the head gasket? I have replaced mine TWICE on my 94 Cougar with the POS V6 in it. Talk about a lemon. But boy does it drive nice! Is there something worse on the Northstar head gasket than say my Ford V6?

Here is the car I was looking at to buy: http://www.garciacadillac.com/Vehic...2dr_Touring_Cpe_ETC-Albuquerque-NM/2311858233

Well for one thing, to fix the head gasket on a Northstar, the engine has to be removed from the car. The problem was with the bolt design, it just wasn't strong enough, so eventually over time the head would lift away from the block causing the HG failure.

 

[white lincoln]

That sucks. Good to know though.

Well for one thing, to fix the head gasket on a Northstar, the engine has to be removed from the car. The problem was with the bolt design, it just wasn't strong enough, so eventually over time the head would lift away from the block causing the HG failure.

 

[white lincoln]

So if a little old lady owned the car and drove it as such, and my wife is primary driver of the car, the chances of the head blowing is slim? Or is it just hit or miss no matter how it was driven?

Well for one thing, to fix the head gasket on a Northstar, the engine has to be removed from the car. The problem was with the bolt design, it just wasn't strong enough, so eventually over time the head would lift away from the block causing the HG failure.

 

[roman_capps]

So if a little old lady owned the car and drove it as such, and my wife is primary driver of the car, the chances of the head blowing is slim? Or is it just hit or miss no matter how it was driven?

The pothead lady drove her N* engine a lot she went from Florida to Indiana and back every 6 months and she drove it until she used up all the water it overheated and she never started it again until the guy bought it from her. So I guess it can justified by just a hit and miss

 

[eots44]

So if a little old lady owned the car and drove it as such, and my wife is primary driver of the car, the chances of the head blowing is slim? Or is it just hit or miss no matter how it was driven?

I mean I would lean toward hit or miss, I looked at a 2001 Deville DHS with 255,000 miles that had 4 previous owners, been in 2 accidents, and was owned in states all across the country from California to New Jersey and it never had a head gasket issue and didn't have one at the time, but then you get the 80,000 mile one that has and etc. I mean if you baby it and keep up good maintenance, then it could probably be avoided, I always say good maintenance goes a long way, my 04 CTS has 200,000 miles and runs and drive perfectly fine because I always kept great maintenance on it. I will say buying a car that was previously owned buy an older person who was the original owner is the golden situation. LOL Lets just say older people tend to care for their vehicles the best, and an original owner had the money to buy it in the first place, so they had to money to have if taken care of properly.

 

[Rushsampson]

$11,900 is ludicrous for a 12 year old Eldorado. $7500 still seems a bit steep, but if the car is showroom perfect, and they have doc. showing why, then so be it. Is it just me, or is the price of these cars on the rise? I remember not too long ago 1-2 years maybe, when one of these could be had with less than 100k on for the 6-8k range? As a side note, the early N* is not to be trusted. I had a '97 Aurora fitted with the L47 varient, she blew her cork at 143k. So.. Luck of the draw, man. :/

 

[eots44]

$11,900 is ludicrous for a 12 year old Eldorado. $7500 still seems a bit steep, but if the car is showroom perfect, and they have doc. showing why, then so be it. Is it just me, or is the price of these cars on the rise? I remember not too long ago 1-2 years maybe, when one of these could be had with less than 100k on for the 6-8k range?

I was thinking the same thing, my knowledge is in the 2000-2005 Deville's and I know those market around $5,000 (more so 2004ish) I figured Eldo's would be similar. Dealerships astonish me sometimes, anyone who knows what their getting isn't in their right mind going to pay $11,900 for a 12 year old Eldorado. One time I saw someone trying to sell a 2003 Deville with like 300,000 miles in poor condition for like $4,000! I couldn't believe it. People are just so stupid sometimes, the best is when they wonder why these cars don't sell for months, maybe if you hadn't been selling it for what realistically is the cost of 2 sometimes 3 of the exact same car then you would be able to sell it! Ughhhhh sorry, it really makes me angry and I deal with it a lot LOL. :Bang

 

[white lincoln]

Thanks guys for the excellent feedback. It really helps a lot.

Maybe I will just go and drop $6 grand on the table and if they take, they take it. If they don't I walk. Done that before and glad I did. Dealers can be such a-holes. "oh my profile would be double if I sell it for $XXX.... I bet they paid the "old lady" that owned it <smirk> $about $4k for a trade - in.

I'll keep you posted. I am looking at some Town Cars too. The wife saw a nice 2004ish white with the vinyl top and asked "what kind of car is that?" I had to laugh... "why it's a town car dear"... "that is very nice" she says. Later I was talking to her about it and when I said it was the same car as my 95 Town Car, she said "no way, your car is twice the size of that one!!!" (I had to laugh at that one...)

 

[mark0101]

IDK if that particular dealership deals with Eldorado a lot but if they do, then maybe there is a reason for it to be priced high. I know this one dealership that lists NICE Mark VIII's all the time and they price them around 10K. They go through them also so it's not like they are sitting on them either. There is obviously a market for them so they know what they can get out of clean examples. Same could be said of the Eldorado. But it never hurts to try and see if you can get it for cheaper though.

It's funny what your wife said about the Town Car lol.

 

[Rushsampson]

Apparently, from what I can gather, these cars are not cheap at all. Even the semi shagged out ones with like 150k plus on them are 3000 dollar cars. If it weren't for the head gasket worries looming over them, and now the ridiculous price range they seem to inhabit, I would probably be behind the wheel of one now, I do love how they look. Absolutely gorgeous coupes. But since we're mulling around spending five figures for old Cadillac coupes, my money would personally rather be on this one -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadillac-El...6689d379d&item=371122321309&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

2000 less, less miles, but it is from the dangerous head gasket territory. :/

 

[mark0101]

But since we're mulling around spending five figures for old Cadillac coupes, my money would personally rather be on this one -

I wouldn't. First of all it's an ESC and not an ETC. It's a bigger difference than say a base and LSC for our Mark VIIIs. The 25 HP difference between the ETC and ESC is not just a simple dual exhaust like the Mark VIIIs. They have different internal engine components. The gear ratio is better on the ESC at 3.73 vs 3.27 on the ETC but the ETC is still faster. I am not that well informed on Eldorados but I am sure there are other features on the ETC that you would wanna go for it over the ESC.

Second of all, that dealer is a crook. He deals with Mark VIIIs and Cadillacs because he knows there is a market for them. I was looking to buy another Mark VIII back in early 2013. He had a beautiful Ivory on Ivory Mark VIII listed for 7K. It was low mileage but don't remember the exact mileage. Called him up and told him I am interested in the Mark VIII he had for sale on ebay. He definitely knows the cars as he started listing the common problems with the Mark VIII. He says to put a non-refundable deposit of $500 (don't remember exactly what it was) to secure the car for me. I declined and said I will meet him on the weekend to see the car. Drove from Jax to Miami and the car did look good but there were some flaws. The rear 1/4 panel was repainted, the headliner was ripped and the interior felt like it had been spray painted. When you are asking premium price for a car of that age, it should be mint which is what I was looking for. Next I drove the car and the transmission is doing some REALLY funky stuff. I could feel it, my brother could feel it and I tell him WTF is that. He says he doesn't feel anything when clearly it was happening every 5 seconds. At that point I knew for sure this guy is not the person you wanna deal with. He bought a junk Mark VIII, cleans it up and tries to sell it on ebay because people aren't going to drive it till they buy it. Screw this guy and the way he operates his business. Drive the car and see it in person first.

Here are the pics of the Mark I was looking to buy. It was beautiful but that was it.

 

[eots44]

Yeah ETC, beside the obvious differences, is more well equipped features wise too. ETC, Bose sound system, perforated leather, special rims, etc. I looked up 0-60's for Eldo's, and they seem pretty quick for fully stock, although it's lighter then a Deville or Seville still pretty heavy too, not bad at all.
[video=youtube;Tr4M919eug4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr4M919eug4[/video]

 

[white lincoln]

UPDATE:
On Friday morning I took a test drive. Maybe I made the mistake of driving my Town Car to the lot, but no the less, the Caddy drove like an ordinary car. Nothing special. THe worse part was interior trim parts rattled; I hate rattles. I had to figure that the owner lived in a rural part of our city that had wash board dirt roads and after 12 years of it, loosened parts. I hate rattles and I do not want to spend my time tracking them down. Besides, I was rather frustrated the car did not handle like a Cadillac, or rather, like a Town Car or Mark VII does. My Mark VII road better than this car.

So I called him back that afternoon to say no thank you and he said the car sold that day. I told him good for them. I was relieved....

Thanks everyone for the feedback about the Eldorado and what to expect.

The wife has changed her mind, now we are looking at mid-sized cars... something like a 2007 Mercury Montego, awd and fully loaded... we'll see.