100k coil warranty / ECT Failsafe Mode

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MDavis0424

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I have a 2004 LS V8 with 65k miles, it's recently started going into ECT failsafe mode intermittently (three times in four days). I know it's time for the coils to start going, I was wondering what experience people have had in getting them fixed under the 10 year/100,000 mile warranty? I'm only getting P2107 and P2110 codes, no misfire codes so I'm worried they are going to throw a TB at it first without even checking the coils. I know they're not that hard to replace, am I better off buying 8 coils and replacing, or is it worth giving the dealer a shot at it first?

If I decide to replace, are there any decent replacements other than OEM? I've seen mixed reviews on both Alanis Deals and Global, but not much recently. There's someone selling AC Delco coils for $80 for the set, I didn't know they made Ford parts. Anyone try them?
 
i would definitely not pay any money for any new coils, but i would switch around coils 3 & 4 with coils 1 & 2, and see if the failsafe mode goes away, then take it to the dealer. if it is missing hard enough to feel, it will fail a stress test and then they will cover it.
 
Never felt a miss at all, it runs perfect right until it goes into failsafe. It's not just under load, it's gone into failsafe just sitting at a traffic light or backing out of the driveway. I'll still swap the coils to be sure, but I'm leaning that it might not be coil related. Whatever it is is getting worse fast, it won't go more than 5 minutes without going into failsafe.
 
1LoudLS said:
i would definitely not pay any money for any new coils, but i would switch around coils 3 & 4 with coils 1 & 2, and see if the failsafe mode goes away, then take it to the dealer. if it is missing hard enough to feel, it will fail a stress test and then they will cover it.
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I think that's a great idea. Be sure to clear the DTCs before going to the dealer. Now you won't have to worry about them claiming you need a throttle body. The stress test will pick up the marginal coil even if you can't feel a misfire. Make sure that you swap sparkplugs at the same time as you swap coils. They will replace the sparkplug associated with the bad coil.
 
mine threw the TB code ...I told the dealership service tech that it's not the TB but the #4 COP going bad...he said he was aware of the ECU's misinterpreting the CEL as a bad TB when in fact it wasn't....so they are aware of the problem...just make sure you make them understand that you are also aware of the same problem

long story short they replaced my VCG's ( which is really all I wanted them to do) and replaced 2 of my coils ( they will only replace the one's that fail the stress test) ...about a month later more coils started to fail and didn't want to deal with bringing the car back every time one or two failed so I replaced the rest on my dime...they're so easy to replace ...like changing the oil....the VCG's on the other hand is a little more work
 
Mine was doing it only at WOT until I swapped #4 and #1. It stopped going into ETC Failsafe mode after that. I do feel a miss on occasion but still haven't been to the dealer. I have 75,000 miles now so still have some time on the TSB. I just want to make sure it's bad enough when I take it in that I won't have an epic hassle getting it diagnosed and fixed.
 
mrshl13 said:
Mine was doing it only at WOT until I swapped #4 and #1. It stopped going into ETC Failsafe mode after that. I do feel a miss on occasion but still haven't been to the dealer. I have 75,000 miles now so still have some time on the TSB. I just want to make sure it's bad enough when I take it in that I won't have an epic hassle getting it diagnosed and fixed.
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waiting to long is a good way to wreck your cats.
 
I don't think it's quite that bad yet. No full misses or fuel smell. I will probably get it checked out after the first of the year since it is surely enough to show up in a stress test.
 
Swapped the #1 and #4 coils and drove for a couple hours with no ETC failsafe, swapped them back and didn't even get out of the driveway. So now I know it's a bad #4 coil, but with the "bad" coil in the #1 spot it runs fine - no misfires, no codes, so is the dealer really going to be willing to stress test all the coils just because I ask them to?

It seems like the best case scenario is that they stress test the coils, replace the bad one, then two months from now another one goes bad and I do it all over again. I'm leaning towards just replacing all of them and getting it over with.

So there seems to be 3 basic options on the coils, the cheap chinese junk that sells for $80 a set, the Visteon coils made in Hungary for $180 a set, and the genuine Motorcraft coils for $400 a set. I did a little research, Motorcraft coils were made in Ford's Ypsilanti MI plant until 2008. The plant was originally spun off to Visteon in 2000, Ford reaquired control of the plant in 2005 although it still operated under the Visteon name. Ford mothballed the plant in 2008 and I was unable to determine where Motorcraft coils have come from since. That's about the time the DG515 was superceded by DG529 which suggests that they may have switched suppliers. Does anyone have an idea where the Motorcraft coils are currently made, is Visteon still the OEM for these coils?
 
2002_lincolnLS said:
waiting to long is a good way to wreck your cats.
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and damage the PCM (which is not cheap or covered in the dealer program)

this car is one of the best examples of not fixing a small problem turns in to having to fix a super expensive problem.
 
MDavis0424 said:
no misfires, no codes, so is the dealer really going to be willing to stress test all the coils just because I ask them to?
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they sure should, because if all of the coils are fine (which in your case, they're not) you have to pay a diagnostic fee of around $100. and they like to make money. you can always switch the bad coil back to cylinder 4. and then see what they say.
 
1LoudLS said:
they sure should, because if all of the coils are fine (which in your case, they're not) you have to pay a diagnostic fee of around $100. and they like to make money. you can always switch the bad coil back to cylinder 4. and then see what they say.
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Unfortunately if I switch the bad coil back to #4 it goes into failsafe almost immediately - and since Ford dropped Mercury both of the dealers closest to me aren't dealers any more. It's only about 10 miles to another dealer but not a trip I'd want to take at 10 mph in failsafe. I assume that towing would not be covered as part of the coil replacement.
 
MDavis0424 said:
Swapped the #1 and #4 coils and drove for a couple hours with no ETC failsafe, swapped them back and didn't even get out of the driveway. So now I know it's a bad #4 coil, but with the "bad" coil in the #1 spot it runs fine - no misfires, no codes, so is the dealer really going to be willing to stress test all the coils just because I ask them to?

It seems like the best case scenario is that they stress test the coils, replace the bad one, then two months from now another one goes bad and I do it all over again. I'm leaning towards just replacing all of them and getting it over with.

So there seems to be 3 basic options on the coils, the cheap chinese junk that sells for $80 a set, the Visteon coils made in Hungary for $180 a set, and the genuine Motorcraft coils for $400 a set. I did a little research, Motorcraft coils were made in Ford's Ypsilanti MI plant until 2008. The plant was originally spun off to Visteon in 2000, Ford reaquired control of the plant in 2005 although it still operated under the Visteon name. Ford mothballed the plant in 2008 and I was unable to determine where Motorcraft coils have come from since. That's about the time the DG515 was superceded by DG529 which suggests that they may have switched suppliers. Does anyone have an idea where the Motorcraft coils are currently made, is Visteon still the OEM for these coils?
Click to expand...


the Motorcraft coils are now manufactured in China....of all places...bought a set of DG529's for $340 and right there on the bag 'made in china'....didn't like that....so I brought them back and got the Visteons

save yourself some money and get the Hungarian made Visteons...European Motorcraft OEM pieces....stay away from the cheapo chinese ones
 
I was afraid of that. Visteon does have a chinese plant which makes COPs so quality is probably the same as the Hungary parts, but no reason to pay double just for the Motorcraft sticker. I found someone who still had some leftover DG515s for $40 each but they didn't have a full set. I had a couple replaced under the regular warranty so I can at least replace all the original coils with US made Motorcrafts.
 
MDavis0424 said:
if I switch the bad coil back to #4 it goes into failsafe almost immediately
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if it is that bad, then tell them you want it inspected, have the letter with you, and then have them run the test. it fails, they replace. or switch it in the parking lot, and use it as proof when they try to tell you that you have to pay for throttle body to be replaced. or replace it yourself.
 
(im highjacking this thread cuz i think it'll be relevant to ppl with the same issue as well as the unfortunate souls like myself who have a V6)

so im having the nearly the same problem as the OP and this is the first i've found about confusion with TB codes and whatnot. but as i said i have the V6. ive had the same two codes as the OP (which seem to get thrown in conjunction with each other) as well as P2104 ans P2111 at other times which are also TB codes. (ive never had a CEL stay on, these are just stored codes i guess). Ive never had any other codes of any kind. My "wrench light" has flashed at me on one occasion while the car was lightly jerking under even light throttle input on the freeway. and i guess i've gone into failsafe mode once. the "jerking" is the problem im having.

questions:
1) this light "jerking" that only occurs intermittantly (generally when cruising on the freeway), is this a likely a misfire? i've just never had or driven a car having this problem.

2) is failsafe mode like the same thing as "limp home" mode? where the car loses all power and i have to turn it off and restart it? this has happened to me only once.

3) V6's have the same problem eating COPs right?

4) is it reasonable to just plan on replacing all six myself since im not guaranteed that the dealer will find one to be bad (thereby incurring a diagnostic fee that i really shoulda just put toward new coils in the first place.) plus they will only change bad ones which means i'll be back again the the future?

5) for reference, the previous owner apparently throw a code for a specific COP. he went ahead and replaced all three on that bank (the bank that's easy to get to). this was at around 85k. i now have 95k. should i just play it safe and replace all six coils since i dont even know what he put in there? (he did the plugs on that side also, but again im just gonna replace all six). everything on the other bank is original.

6) why in god's name is one bank of cylinders under the intake manifold? for some weird reason alldata reference center doesnt include removing the IM in the procedure for changing spark plugs/coils. but god hates me right? especially when its wet and cold and dark out all the time?

7) autozone sells a duralast COP for like $48 and Oreilley's sells a motorcraft for $76. but i believe Oreilley's will price match and beat by 5%. so does this sound like a reasonable rout? any other brands i should consider? i assume these new motorcraft coils wont be as prone to failure as the originals?


also very curious to hear the results form the OP, and thank you everyone who has contributed to this thread so far. im a little optimistic this will solve all my problems.
 
1. Yes.
2. More or less. The LS has two "failsafe" modes.
Engine over temp failsafe cooling. Cylinders fire only every other time to help keep the engine cool. You get a little less than half engine power and it runs very rough.
Electronic Throttle Control failsafe mode. Engine power is reduced to idle or just over idle. The engine may run very rough if the throttle is actually stuck open.
3. Yes.
4. There is no extended warranty for V6 coils. If you go to a dealer, you'll be paying for all of it.
5. I'd replace all six.
6. Because you, like most, bought the car anyway. They know that hardly anyone checks for this or thinks about it when buying a car.
7. Max (ad to the right) will sell you the latest Motorcraft coils for around $50 each.
 
thank you very much for all of that.

joegr said:
6. Because you, like most, bought the car anyway. They know that hardly anyone checks for this or thinks about it when buying a car.
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lol my g/f just laughed at me as we were reading this becuz she specifically remembers be throwing a fit about this when i started looking at LS's. but i am the idiot that bought it anyway. and i'd do it again! small price to pay for my favorite car. plus it's give us a little more intimate bonding time (me and the lincoln, not me and the g/f)
 
I just had all 4 passenger side coils replaced under campaign 07M07 for free @ 76k and a little less than 2 years under the 10 year mark on my '04. It's running like a champ now including the bucking at 60 mph I was concerned could be the O/D servo.

MDavis0424, you mentioned you had a couple replaced. Was that for the issue you posted about or earlier?
 
I just had this warranty work done maybe 2 weeks ago and here's how it goes.

When you set up your appointment and take it to the dealer they will stress test it. If any codes are thrown during the stress test relevant to the coils failing the mechanics are then able to replace the coil and valve cover gasket if oil is detected in the wells. It sounds like your car will handily fail that stress test so all should be well. You may just want to confirm with your dealer that there is in fact a warranty on the extended warranty for your 04. I dont know if she was correct or not but the service adviser that handled mine told me the warranty was only in place for 03s, but I've heard things to the contrary here.
 
Shredicus said:
I just had this warranty work done maybe 2 weeks ago and here's how it goes.

When you set up your appointment and take it to the dealer they will stress test it. If any codes are thrown during the stress test relevant to the coils failing the mechanics are then able to replace the coil and valve cover gasket if oil is detected in the wells. It sounds like your car will handily fail that stress test so all should be well. You may just want to confirm with your dealer that there is in fact a warranty on the extended warranty for your 04. I dont know if she was correct or not but the service adviser that handled mine told me the warranty was only in place for 03s, but I've heard things to the contrary here.
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Coil warranty applies for 03-05 V8 models. VCG warranty applies for 03 V8 models only.
 
Shredicus said:
I dont know if she was correct or not but the service adviser that handled mine told me the warranty was only in place for 03s, but I've heard things to the contrary here.
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originally, it was only for the 03's, but then ford added the later years (excluding 06) to the coverage
 
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