Success, Kinda.....well, need help

[G-RELL]

whats up Ladies,

As some of you know I picked up another LS a while back ago. I bought it crazy cheap because it had a few things i needed... (brand new set of winter tires/ rims, some body parts, etc.).. The car would barely run.. BARELY.. but i didn't care because i was just going to sell it once i was done... Well after talking it over, a buddy of mine and I decided to see if we could get it running... after a couple thread jacks and PM's (you know who you are), we narrowed it down to what we thought might be a slipped chain....
So last night we pushed it into the garage and got to work. pulled the passenger VC, no oil leaks, perfect looking coils, and unfortunately perfect secondary chain... so we moved on the driver side... with a set of swivels, couple beers and good music. I was able to pry off the front side of the VC (wasn't sure how to disconnect the fuel line without the tool)... and what to my wondering eyes did appear, but a BROKEN secondary chain laying inside the VC.. we were very excited to find it...

So the question is. what now... I DONT have the vc completely off yet but it appears all that broke was the chain, and the tensioner.... but here's a list of my questions.

1. How to remove the fuel line... is there a way to do it without the special tool...

once I have it disconnected, the VC will be off and i'll be able to take a closer look. What worries me is the broken chain.... I DID HAVE THE CAR RUNNING and i did not hear any valve chatter or knocking. just a "rubbing metal sound" that i now assume was the chain spinning..

2. what are the chances i don't have any valve damage? if i replace the chain and tensioner, think i'll be alright?

3. can you think of anything else i need, or need to be worried about...
chain
Tensioner
Do i need new gaskets if the originals look ok? looks like they were just replaced and have plenty of life in them

Any advice would be great... I figured i'd ask maxx to price the chain and tensioner. I've got a friend, who's son needs a car bad... If i can get this up and running... It might be a good car for him (kids been through alot).

Thanks

 

[2002_lincolnLS]

I honestly just cut the fuel line and bought a piece of fuel line and clamped it on, this over a year and half ago and no problems.

Next I think we have a no interference engine, not sure though. and chances are if you didn't here any loud crashing or slapping from the engine when you did start it then you should be fine.

so my questions for you, do you have the passenger side plastic for the rocker panel, you know under the door on the outside that you may want to get rid from your donor car?

 

[jolinc01]

IF there's no valve damage I say get it timed back up and see what happens. Personally I'd be surprised if at least 1 valve isn't bent, but stranger things have happened.

 

[G-RELL]

IF there's no valve damage I say get it timed back up and see what happens. Personally I'd be surprised if at least 1 valve isn't bent, but stranger things have happened.

I would agree... But maybe if the chain snapped immediately, its just been pushing the exhaust cam around... Maybe.... The old guy i bought it from said his wife put cheap gas in it and then it stopped running (who knows)...Maybe low octane really does blow these things up (no matter what your dad says)

so my questions for you, do you have the passenger side plastic for the rocker panel, you know under the door on the outside that you may want to get rid from your donor car?

LOL, this is why i've been careful not to pull to much stuff off it... If i do get it running i dont want to sell a stripped down car.... I'll let you know.

 

[marcredd]

If it did not bend any valves, you sir, are very lucky. Hard to believe that it did not do so but hey, let's hope for the best.

 

[cammerfe]

The little plastic release dingus for the fuel line only costs a couple of dollars. And you should be able to check for a bent valve with a straight-edge across the valve tips.

KS

 

[2002_lincolnLS]

If it did not bend any valves, you sir, are very lucky. Hard to believe that it did not do so but hey, let's hope for the best.

there's always that one guy who has the luck and judging by my door its not me so It may be G-Rell

 

[G-RELL]

there's always that one guy who has the luck and judging by my door its not me so It may be G-Rell

LOL... Maybe (i'll be laughing the whole time when its starts right up)

The little plastic release dingus for the fuel line only costs a couple of dollars. And you should be able to check for a bent valve with a straight-edge across the valve tips.

KS

cool. i'll go pick it up after work... Can you explain the straight edge a bit more...
Am I checking for levelness across where on the valves?....

 

[joegr]

I honestly just cut the fuel line and bought a piece of fuel line and clamped it on, this over a year and half ago and no problems.

Next I think we have a no interference engine, not sure though. and chances are if you didn't here any loud crashing or slapping from the engine when you did start it then you should be fine....

The fuel line disconnect tool costs less than a piece of fuel line and two clamps.
Here's a hint on its use. When you push the tool in, push the two halves of the connection together first, then pull them apart. You have to push them in first to release it.

It is an interference engine. Valves almost certainly hit pistons. That said, I would still just replace the chain and tensioner and see how it runs. It might be good enough. If it's not, you haven't wasted a lot of labor trying it.

 

[2002_lincolnLS]

The fuel line disconnect tool costs less than a piece of fuel line and two clamps.
Here's a hint on its use. When you push the tool in, push the two halves of the connection together first, then pull them apart. You have to push them in first to release it.

It is an interference engine. Valves almost certainly hit pistons. That said, I would still just replace the chain and tensioner and see how it runs. It might be good enough. If it's not, you haven't wasted a lot of labor trying it.

Yeah, i know they are cheap but the first time I torn it down I didn't have that thought process, more of just, hmmmm how do i do this. It does make it nice now that there have been a couple times I have had to take it apart to just pull the line.

And I didn't know if we had an interference engine or not, I thought I read somewhere that it wasn't but now we know.

Good looking out Joe

 

[G-RELL]

K.. I'll line up the flats on the cams, install the new chain and tensioner, Button it all up and see what happens... Anything else?

 

[1LoudLS]

Anything else?

drain that crap fuel out and put some of the proper stuff in it! lol

 

[Kumba]

I'd do a leakdown test before I bothered buying more parts. It will tell you if you have a bent valve and won't cost you anything if you rent it. Just need an air-compressor or a fairly well sized air tank.

You will be out money by buying a chain and tensioner if the valve is bent.

Cammer's method will work too. The valves should all be basically the same height. If you can visibly see a gap under the straight edge then it's bent.

 

[joegr]

I'd do a leakdown test before I bothered buying more parts. It will tell you if you have a bent valve and won't cost you anything if you rent it. Just need an air-compressor or a fairly well sized air tank.

You will be out money by buying a chain and tensioner if the valve is bent.

Cammer's method will work too. The valves should all be basically the same height. If you can visibly see a gap under the straight edge then it's bent.

He have to turn the exhaust cam on that side by hand for each cylinder that he tests on that side. It won't tell him if the top part of the valve stem is bent a little, only the bottom part. (Of course, a little bend at the top may be okay for a beater type car.)

 

[Kumba]

He have to turn the exhaust cam on that side by hand for each cylinder that he tests on that side. It won't tell him if the top part of the valve stem is bent a little, only the bottom part. (Of course, a little bend at the top may be okay for a beater type car.)

I guess you are talking about the straight-edge method? Yeah, it's not perfect, but it doesn't require any special tools or talent. But the uncertainty is why I like the leakdown test better. Just loosen the cams and test.

 

[joegr]

I guess you are talking about the straight-edge method? Yeah, it's not perfect, but it doesn't require any special tools or talent. But the uncertainty is why I like the leakdown test better. Just loosen the cams and test.

No, the leak down test.
Think about it, his exhaust cam on that side is disconnected from the crankshaft. To do a leak down test, you have to test one cylinder at a time. You turn the crankshaft so that the cylinder is at the bottom of its stroke and the valves are closed. There's nothing to turn the exhaust cam on that side, so he would have to turn it by hand to close the valve, or remove the cam. If he removes the cam, then he has to keep the shims such that he puts each set back on the correct valve. And, he will have the extra work of putting it back on. (You don't have to remove the cam to replace the chain and tensioner.)

Personally, I think that by the time he does that, and buys/borrows/rents the leak down tester, he might as well as just tried it with a new chain and tensioner. Especially considering that a 100% passing leak down test still doesn't completely guarantee there is no valve or piston damage (although it mostly does).

 

[Kumba]

No, the leak down test.
Think about it, his exhaust cam on that side is disconnected from the crankshaft. To do a leak down test, you have to test one cylinder at a time. You turn the crankshaft so that the cylinder is at the bottom of its stroke and the valves are closed. There's nothing to turn the exhaust cam on that side, so he would have to turn it by hand to close the valve, or remove the cam. If he removes the cam, then he has to keep the shims such that he puts each set back on the correct valve. And, he will have the extra work of putting it back on. (You don't have to remove the cam to replace the chain and tensioner.)

Personally, I think that by the time he does that, and buys/borrows/rents the leak down tester, he might as well as just tried it with a new chain and tensioner. Especially considering that a 100% passing leak down test still doesn't completely guarantee there is no valve or piston damage (although it mostly does).

I guess as long as you didn't mind gambling however much money a secondary chain and tensioner costs then it's a moot point. Since I've never replaced one I have no clue how much they are. I just figured it would take maybe an hour or two to do a leakdown test and in the end cost nothing. Sounds like he's just kind of fiddling with it out of curiosity anyways.

And as far as keeping track of the shims and buckets that is what tackle organizers are for! http://www.basspro.com/White-River-...product/43844/59820?cmCat=CROSSSELL_THUMBNAIL

Or egg cartons, but those spill too easy

 

[msgtusmc]

Gasket sealer. I have had good luck using: Permatex Ultra Grey Rigid High Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker. Remove old gasket, clean with brake fluid, instal old gasket, apply light coat of sealer, to gasket & mating surface, let set 10 min, until just tacky, re-install part to motor. Just a thought.

1956 Ford Crown Vic
1998 Volvo C70
2000 LS
2002 F-150

 

[RCodePaul]

whats up Ladies,

The car would barely run.. BARELY..

what are the chances i don't have any valve damage? if i replace the chain and tensioner, think i'll be alright?

Any advice would be great... I've got a friend, who's son needs a car bad... If i can get this up and running... It might be a good car for him (kids been through alot).

Thanks

I'd say that since the car ran, but just barely, that it definitely has some bent valves. With four valves on that exhaust cam, there's just no position for that cam to be sitting in while the pistons are cycling without one or two hanging into the cc.

You know how finicky these cars are and if a kid needs a car bad, he's probably dollars challenged. If you get it running and GIVE it to the kid, he's how far from DCCV, clockspring, window, COP, coolant reservoir, underperforming cats, code throwing etc. hell? Dunno, just know how unreliable mine has been. YMMV.

 

[G-RELL]

Gasket sealer. I have had good luck using: Permatex Ultra Grey Rigid High Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker. Remove old gasket, clean with brake fluid, instal old gasket, apply light coat of sealer, to gasket & mating surface, let set 10 min, until just tacky, re-install part to motor. Just a thought.

1956 Ford Crown Vic
1998 Volvo C70
2000 LS
2002 F-150

I'll give it a shot...Thanks

I'd say that since the car ran, but just barely, that it definitely has some bent valves. With four valves on that exhaust cam, there's just no position for that cam to be sitting in while the pistons are cycling without one or two hanging into the cc.

You know how finicky these cars are and if a kid needs a car bad, he's probably dollars challenged. If you get it running and GIVE it to the kid, he's how far from DCCV, clockspring, window, COP, coolant reservoir, underperforming cats, code throwing etc. hell? Dunno, just know how unreliable mine has been. YMMV.

You would think I'd hear some type of knock while it was barely running or when it was cranking..NO?

I fine with putting a new chain in (looks like it'll be around 200 for both parts)...

IF i did the straight edge... I would pull the cam out and see if the valve stems all sat at the same height???

For the leak down....( I have a fairly large compressor) I need to rotate the crank so for each piston the intake and exhaust valves are shut... what then pressurize the cylinder somehow??? Anyone know of a writeup on this????

 

[Kumba]

I fine with putting a new chain in (looks like it'll be around 200 for both parts)...

IF i did the straight edge... I would pull the cam out and see if the valve stems all sat at the same height???

For the leak down....( I have a fairly large compressor) I need to rotate the crank so for each piston the intake and exhaust valves are shut... what then pressurize the cylinder somehow??? Anyone know of a writeup on this????

You can either check the gap between the valve and the closed side of the cam lobe, or remove the cam and lay a straight-edge across the top of the valves. If one valve has a significant amount of difference from the others then chances are it's bent. By significant I am talking more then 30-thousandths off. If all the valves were 20-thou from the cam and one is 50, chances are it's bent. Or if one of the valves is 30-thou away from the straight edge, it's probably bent too.

As far as a leakdown test: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=leakdown+test&l=1

Each tester has it's own individual instructions. Depends on who made it. But basically you have one guage reading your tank pressure, and another reading the pressure in the combustion chamber with the piston at TDC. The difference between the two guages is the amount of leakdown in the cylinder. I would expect it to be around 20-30% or so. Since you have one side of the engine that is a known good, just check one or two cylinders on that side and use it as a baseline for the bad side of the block. You can usually rent the tester from an autoparts store that will cost you nothing once you return it.