Possible 12.6" brake upgrade for gen2?

Kumba

Kumba

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So I've been scouring a lot (a LOT) of stuff on rockauto and others comparing dimensions, part numbers, etc. Here is what I come up with:

The late model 2003 to 2005 Jag S-Type "Sport" has a 320mm front rotor versus our 300mm. They used the same caliper part number and the rotors have the same depth/offset/etc. From what I can tell without holding an actual S-Type "Sport" knuckle to measure, they mount in similar places too.

It looks like all I need from an 03-05 S-Type "Sport" is:
Brake Caliper Bracket
New Rotors
New Pads
17" Rims (Already have! But listed for good measure)

Has anyone actually tried this yet? Cause if not, I'm going to see how it fits after I move into my new place with the garage. I tried searching this forum and all I could find were threads about the Jag S-Type "R" brakes. This is different from that.

So far my biggest problem is making sure the right parts are listed. If I do go forward and it works, I'll make sure I post all the part #'s I used and from where. Sadly my options for brake pads are limited. Would like to find a decent set of performance daily-driver ceramics of some sort.
 
Interesting that you said this. I was actually thinking abiut this yesterday. I remember seeing S-types with 3 different sets of brakes. The regular that looks just like the ones on LS, the bigger sport ones and the large R ones.

Would be a nice upgrade if works.
 
Yes, it has been tried... and it didn't work. At least the ones of the STR didn't.
Do a seach, you will find the threads on it.
 
05 LS8 said:
Yes, it has been tried... and it didn't work. At least the ones of the STR didn't.
Do a seach, you will find the threads on it.
Click to expand...

The S-Type "R" is completely different. This is not about that one. This is from the S-Type "Sport", which is not the "R". I could not find any actual posts about swapping out the regular to sport brakes. Only from swapping out regular to the R brakes.

2002_lincolnLS said:
i wonder if we can do the same on the back ones too
Click to expand...

The rears on the "Sport" are the same rotor as what we've already got. 11.34"/288mm.

Worse case scenario, I find out after the 1st if it all works. An almost 1" upgrade to the front brake would be a welcome addition to this car. It does feel like a chore stopping this thing sometimes.
 
The rotor pros kit is used by many here and is guaranteed to work.
 
HDDave said:
I agree - looking forward to your update....


oh wait - Gen 2 only? Well, it would still be good info for others
Click to expand...

Well, it might work for Gen1 too. I just don't own one so I didn't research it :)

If the rotor, brake caliper, and bracket are the same from gen1 to gen2, it would all fit.
 
RockAuto has Centric part #'s 14120023 and 14120024 specific to the "sport" 320mm setup, so I would think it necessary to replace the caliper along with the bracket.
 
Looking further, A1-Cardone has the "A" as an indicator at the end of the part number for the sport vs. the non-sport. Those are available with the brackets for less than $100 a piece, though!
 
JoshMcMadMac said:
RockAuto has Centric part #'s 14120023 and 14120024 specific to the "sport" 320mm setup, so I would think it necessary to replace the caliper along with the bracket.
Click to expand...

I'll double check, but when I looked the raw caliper (w/o bracket) was the same. The caliper w/ bracket was different part #'s. The bracket itself is only $35 at the parts store. Like you said, if it DOES take a different bracket/caliper, you are still only looking at around $100/ea. You can always buy the bracket, the regular rotors, and pads, and see if it fits. If not, return it and get the LS stuff or Jag caliper. Seems like a pretty simple way to test.

My problem is the apt complex I'm in has a conniption anytime someone does more then check fluids on their cars. I can understand, if they didn't there would be "Lawn Ornaments" all over the place. I also don't take kindly to working in the sun. Nothing like burning your ass trying to sit on pavement.
 
I think at this point the bench racing part is done. Someone just needs to attempt it :)

Worse case scenario, I'll post back in around 2-weeks.
 
Nice detective work! This would be a good upgrade for a reasonable price point if it works.
 
If the caliper is the same, what is the benefit of the change. I feel that to make a difference the caliper would also have to be larger as well as the rotor. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
LEOV5 said:
If the caliper is the same, what is the benefit of the change. I feel that to make a difference the caliper would also have to be larger as well as the rotor. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...

The benefits are:
1) More rotor surface area to handle heat
2) More mechanical leverage so the same clamping force generates more stopping power with less heat
3) Commodity parts which means inexpensive

You are correct in assuming that the rotor and pads by themselves will not create any more clamping force. But that is only one part of the puzzle. Brakes are all about heat management. Heat causes fade, warping, cracks, glazing, and the pads can catch on fire. Generating less of it and/or getting rid of more of it is the name of the game. Outside of that, it's about leverage and unsprung weight.

A larger rotor is usually heavier. Heavier means it has more mass, and can absorb more heat before it starts glowing. This means you can brake more often or heavier before you get fade. Brake material type also determines how much heat is made and stored.

I doubt the venting is any different. But if the venting in one rotor moves more air then another at the same RPM, the rotor with more airflow will cool down faster. Think of it like a radiator. The engine makes heat, and the radiator gets rid of it. The more heat you can get rid of, the harder/hotter you can run the engine. Same type of thing. Size of the vanes, design of them, the material the rotor is made out of, all play into how well the rotor can cool off or "dissipate heat".

Leverage is easy. Pretend you were doing pushups on a breaker bar and still not breaking the nut loose. Plan B is to go grab a 3-foot cheater pipe, make the breaker bar longer, and suddenly you can pop the bolt off. Same principle is applied to the rotor. A larger rotor diameter is like having a longer handle on a breaker bar.

Lower unsprung weight means the suspension reacts quicker keeping you from bouncing around. This is where you run into 2-piece rotors and alum calipers, etc. Unfortunately, this upgrade will increase the unsprung weight at each wheel. This will make the suspension less responsive.


So, what can you really expect without all the technical crap?

1) Heavier braking habits with less fade and rotor warp
2) Slightly less responsive suspension reaction (each rotor is around 1-2lb heavier)
3) Hopefully a noticeable increase in braking response once they are warmed up
4) They don't cost $2500 :D
 
Well I am using stainless steel brake hoses, drilled rotors and ceramic pads. For the type of driving that I do everyday and no track time, this set up is great. The hoses made the biggest difference of all the changes. I had being using them on my 280ZX since 1998 or so, long before I got my LS.
 
LEOV5 said:
Well I am using stainless steel brake hoses, drilled rotors and ceramic pads. For the type of driving that I do everyday and no track time, this set up is great. The hoses made the biggest difference of all the changes. I had being using them on my 280ZX since 1998 or so, long before I got my LS.
Click to expand...

Braided lines help the clamping force of the caliper since they limit the rubber's ability to expand. All rubber lines expand. Evidently the ones on the LS expand a lot. I plan to take the OE lines over to a place in Tampa and have them make me up some braided lines.

Just to put this thread to rest I might suffer through attempting the upgrad on hot pavement this weekend. Even though it is rapidly becoming the wrong time of the year to work on stuff in Florida.
 
Aren't the SS lines only available for front fitment on Gen IIs?
 
M4rk said:
Aren't the SS lines only available for front fitment on Gen IIs?
Click to expand...

You can have anything made. But the fronts may be all that's manufactured for retail. The place I am talking about does custom hydraulic hoses. They do a lot of the stuff for the tuner shops around here. It might require me to buy the OE hose and have them cut the crimps off and re-crimp it. All depends on if they have the right end-pieces or not. Here's their website: http://www.amazonhose.com/

Always interesting going over there. It's in an 80-year old train station/warehouse back in a beat-up looking industrial area. Looks like something you would see out of a slasher flick. Good people though.
 
I am using the StopTech SS Brakes hoses on all four corners, they bolted right up with no problem. It came as 2 kits one for the front and one for the rear.
 
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