Bags Won't Come Up. Car's Barely Drivable! Help!!!

UltimateSVT

UltimateSVT

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Miami, FL(Home of the rust free MARK VIII's
I am very well aware that these cars suffer from the air bag suspension issue & I bought the car knowing what I was getting into but damn, I've just had the car for 3 weeks. I went on vacation to the Fl. Keys for a total of 10 days & left the car home with the suspension turned OFF as I have been told to do. Came back on Sunday & found the car on the floor as I was expecting to find it. When I turned on the car, I heard the compressor turn on but the car didn't raise up as it should. The compressor runs for about 20 seconds, stops then I get an "air ride system problem" on the information center. What usually occurs when this happens? Is it the line that is leaking? The compressor doesnt have enough power to lift all four bags? Are all 4 bags shot?

Also, the car is sitting 3 inches from the ground so driving it like that is out of the question.
 
Sounds like the air suspension module isn't seeing the rear come up because there is a hole in the bag(s) that let them down in the first place...that'd be a good place to start.
 
rayner601 said:
there is a hole in the bag(s) that let them down in the first place
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When I went to purchase the car it was sitting on the floor just like this. The guy had not touched it in 2 weeks. As soon as he started the car, within 2 - 3 minutes, the car was right up to riding hight. He told me that when you have the car sit for a while, I must turn off the air ride system & that its normal for them to deflate very slowly which is what happened last week. Is there anyway to inflate them individually to assist the compressor? Once inflated, they will NOT come down for days. If the car is used regularly, they barely come down at all.

:bash: I had several people that could've started my car every couple days if I wanted to. It would still be sitting at normal hight. I feel retarded now! DAMN!!!:(
 
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When the car is slammed, it will take atleast three recycles to get the bags up. The way to do this is to open the door then turn the key to off, then turn the key on again until the compressor times out again, and repeat. The compressor is timed to run only about 90 seconds max. If the compressor is shot, which it very well may be due to being overworked by leaking bags, then I would suggest you go to American Air and get Eddies complete setup including the Spider Valve, air springs, and rebuilt compressor and you should be good to go.
 
If the system is air tight, it won't come down a dramatic amount. It will drop about .5-1.5" or so IF there is an extreme temp change between the time you turn the switch off and when you get back in it again (overnight). I suspect a holy air spring, leaking soleniod, leaking dump valve, a weak or failing compressor, or a combination of the above. By my understanding of the system, when the car is started, it checks the rear height. If it's low it applies power to the compressor and the solenoid on the affected bag(s). If the module doesn't see a rise occur within a specific time, it turns the compressor off and displays the message. You may have a hole in the fold of the bag that gets covered up when it's inflated. See one of the LVC sponsors>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
they have more experience than I. Tell them you are on the LVC forums, they won't steer you wrong.
 
if the comp turns off before 90 seconds and the car isn't at ride height, then there is a hard fault. time for a coil swap.
 
When you bought the car the guy new it had a suspension problem ... he just sold it to you and gave you some bogus BS...

If they bags have no leaks they will stay up. Period .. when I had a compressor issue I was able to turn off the air ride for months ... once I went 6 months with the air ride off. Bags never went done.
 
I got to drive a gen1 on air and it made such an impression on me that I want to GET RID of my coils and go on air. I think coils make a Mark ride like a Thunderbird or Cougar with slightly worn front shocks. Your issue I don't think is going to be much more than a set of bags and a compressor. 2 rear air springs and a compressor from arnott is about $400. The coil kit is $430.
 
Well, I'm not a sponsor, but I may know a thing or two about the subject. From what you've described, it sounds like that car has had a leak for quite a while now and it may have taken out the compressor.

These little compressors don't produce alot of volume, so it's possible the fold of the rubber is exposing a crack in the rubber air bladder and maybe leaking a good portion of the air pressure out. You may want to use a floorjack and jack up the front "JUST UNDER NORMAL RIDE HEIGHT", then turn the ignition on and see if the compressor will take it up the rest of the way.

BTW, I wouldn't waist my time turning off the suspension switch when going out of town, as the module goes to sleep an hour after turning off the ignition.
 
Alex its Marvin, bro if the compressor comes on and car doesnt raise to level then it means that the crack in the air bag is pretty big. That happens with old age. The rubber crystalizes and cracks. Search for a set of new front air bags on ebay, also try american air suspension or call our good buddy Jamie maybe he has a set laying around. Also I know a cheap mechanic that can hook those things up for you. Let me know.
 
American Air-1 said:
Well, I'm not a sponsor, but I may know a thing or two about the subject. From what you've described, it sounds like that car has had a leak for quite a while now and it may have taken out the compressor.

These little compressors don't produce alot of volume, so it's possible the fold of the rubber is exposing a crack in the rubber air bladder and maybe leaking a good portion of the air pressure out. You may want to use a floorjack and jack up the front "JUST UNDER NORMAL RIDE HEIGHT", then turn the ignition on and see if the compressor will take it up the rest of the way.

BTW, I wouldn't waist my time turning off the suspension switch when going out of town, as the module goes to sleep an hour after turning off the ignition.
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This was the dude I was trying to remember but didn't want to post inaccurate info. Eddie's the man on air suspension!
 
Damn it.... & I thought someone would tell me crazy glue would do the trick! :biggrin:
Guys, first & foremost, thanks for all the input. That's why I LOVE FORUMS! Ok, so all in all it looks like I may need to spend a buck or two... not bad, regardless it's a project car, not my daily driver. If I had to depend on this car on a daily basis I'd be having a cow right now but I have to be patient as I just came back yesterday from a 10 day vacation in the Fl. Keys where I over spent just a bit then on my way back home I ruined my waverunner trailer axle which I need to replace now... I'll go back to concentrate on the Mark in about a week. To answer some of the suggestions made on this thread:
#1. I agree, the guy that sold me the car probably knew that the suspension was bad. However the car's engine, transmission, body are in amazing shape. Still worth the price I paid for it. (SUPER CHEAP MARK)
#2. I already tried the 3,4,5 cycles to try to inflate, NOTHING! Stayed on the floor.
#3. For the most part, during those repeated cycles, the compressor sometimes stayed on for more than 90 seconds. The car didn't move at all.
#4. The compressor seems to be strong. I took a glance at it under the hood & it looks pretty new. I can't see it completely as it sits under the air filter but you know a new part when you see one. Seems this compressor may have been replaced not too long ago.
#5. I would NOT like to switch to coils. If there's one thing that stands out on these vehicles it's the air ride suspension. No matter how old they get, it rides like what it is... a LINCOLN!
#6. Marvin, I agree with you on this hands down. I'm sure those bags have hardenned with the 17 years of heat & harsh weather. For those that dont know, this is a South Florida Mark VIII, the heat wave down here is horrible. Those bags are probably cooked however if I can maintain them at ride height (cooked) lol... for a few weeks, it will allow me some time to install some other accessories the car needs before the suspension. (NOTE: Marvin, you gotta swing by the house soon man!)

I will start by lifting the car with a jack to see if assisting the compressor helps. I will post my results in about 22-24 hours. I'll try that tomorrow afternoon when I get home from work.

Thanks everyone!
 
American Air-1 said:
Well, I'm not a sponsor, but I may know a thing or two about the subject.
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Eddie, while I'm sure LVC "appreciates" vendor sponsorship.

I dont think they mind you helping people, and damned sure wont "charge you for helping people" like most forums.

IMHO you are a "supporting vendor" which is more valuable to the community than a "sponsored vendor".

An expert like yourself that "chooses" to help people is far more benifitial than some vendor that "pays" to have his own private hunting ground.

Thanks for all you do Eddie!
 
XLRVIII said:
Eddie, while I'm sure LVC "appreciates" vendor sponsorship.

I dont think they mind you helping people, and damned sure wont "charge you for helping people" like most forums.

IMHO you are a "supporting vendor" which is more valuable to the community than a "sponsored vendor".

An expert like yourself that "chooses" to help people is far more benifitial than some vendor that "pays" to have his own private hunting ground.

Thanks for all you do Eddie!
Click to expand...

Very well said!! Eddie knows air suspension so his input is priceless.
Like he said, jack the car up to almost ride height and let the compressor fill the bags, instead of having to lift the car. This should get the car back up, with 2 or 3 cycles of the compressor. Then find your leaks and replace the bad parts.
 
Duck said:
Then find your leaks and replace the bad parts.
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VERY WELL SAID.

do NOT procrastinate at this point.
IF the car jacks itself back up, I wouldn't go driving it around.
it is NOT fixed.

Procrastination is an Air Ride cars worst enemy
the cost to repair goes up very quickly when people ignore warning signs.

a car that "falls" overnight is a warning sign.
people often say "well it lifts back up when you start it"..THAT IS A BAD BAD FORM of denial.

the car should NOT fall down overnight..and if it does you can be assured that while your driving it, the compressor is working double overtime and will die in a very short time

and.. yes the seller knew there was a problem, and tried to pass that "denial" issue onto you.
 
mespock said:
When you bought the car the guy new it had a suspension problem ... he just sold it to you and gave you some bogus BS...

If they bags have no leaks they will stay up. Period .. when I had a compressor issue I was able to turn off the air ride for months ... once I went 6 months with the air ride off. Bags never went done.
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+1

My Mark has sat for weeks and does not drop.


And If I drop the car with the Ray's switch it will come back up without the compressor timing out. I suspect if it's taking two three or more times your compressor is weak and on it's way out.


And listen to Eddie he knows what he's talking about.
 
Alex we do need to get together, since Im picking up my 2nd MarkVIII on Saturday. Its a red 97 base with sun roof and with cream interior, it needs some minor work but nothing that cannot be fixed.
 
Alright, I'll be looking into this. However, guys, it doesn't slam overnight, it takes over 6-8 days... which yes, I agree, it's a problem, there's a leak, hands down I know there's a leak, however if I can get it back up to riding height it will be a bit of a relief. That compressor only comes on once when I start it in the morning, runs for a maximum of 30 seconds & that's it, It's at riding height. It wont come back on. I've left the car stationary for 4 days straight & when I start the car, the compressor will run for no more than 30 seconds. I'm hoping it will solve the issue. Hopefully it will come back up & I can find the leaks. If the front doesn't come back up I wont mind, it actually looks REALLY good with the front slammed.

Marvin, I'm picking up a complete 97 interior this weekend. I may be unavailable. I know the headaches I will encounter with the 97 interior swap on my 93 but it's well worth it. Again, it's a slow project. The interior right now is priority to me because of it's condition.
 
yeah the 97 interior is much nicer than the first gen, my interior needs minor things but its also a project in progress.
 
dont confuse the car dropping to park height as a leak (dont want you chasing a ghost)

and i agree you shouldn't have to cycle the key to pick a car back up. even when i ran 1 comp it got up in one key cycle
 
If you intend on getting some air ride bags ... I would recommend not purchasing from some other company and then calling Eddie for help.

I have heard this is happening often and I think it's pretty $hitty ...

Go buy some China crap and then when you have problems these $hit companies send the customer to Eddie for support.

Eddie is the best in the business and has given the best support to this site on air ride issues.

Eddie is the go to guy ... also don't try some stupid idea like super glue etc.... your bags are shot and your compressor is about to go.

Call Eddie and find out what you need to do. He'll take good care of you.
 
BAD NEWS!!! Ok, I tried assisting the car by lifting the rear which is the most affected area while the compressor ran but NOTHING! I repeated the cycle over 5 times & there was not one centimeter of raise in the height. As soon as I brought down the jack, the car was back on the floor. The compressor is fine, now what I want to know is the following:


  • Is the problem the bags for sure?


  • Can my problem be the air lines that lead to the bags?


  • What is more than likely to go wrong on this 17 year old Mark 8 suspension?


  • Can I stay on the bags up front (The height is perfect for the near future when I install rims) & install coils in the rear?


  • There's a local guy that sells these bags (used) on ebay taken off other Marks, is this worth it?
 
Used is used take your chances. I wouldn't bother due to the agrivation. Replace the bags, but don't be suprised that the compressor may need to be replaced also. When leaky bags are left on the car too long they cause the compressor to overwork trying to keep air in them, even a new one has it's limits. Another issue is the climate you are in, condensation gets in the air system and then rusts up the internals of the compressor. Even faster with a leaky system as the compressor is over working itself that much more. This is why I advised you to also get the Spider Valve from American Air while you are installing your new Bags etc. The Spider valve isolates the compressor and system from moisture and externally vents (sounds cool) the system. Another benefit is there is a schraeder valve that provides for the ability to induce air into the system with an air line, or you can use your compressor to air up a tire or play toy.
 
Roadboss said:
get the Spider Valve from American Air while you are installing your new Bags etc. The Spider valve isolates the compressor and system from moisture and externally vents (sounds cool) the system. Another benefit is there is a schraeder valve that provides for the ability to induce air into the system with an air line, or you can use your compressor to air up a tire or play toy.
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You've got my attention! I just hope it doesn't make a deep hole in my pocket... Is it an easy install? I'm a very hands on guy when it comes to cars, boats, waverunners. I've done complete car restorations including an entirely new interior on my truck, I've done 2 top end rebuilds to two of my waverunners so I can get my hands dirty, just don't know if I have the right tools. I know I'm going to need air tools to get those bags out for sure. Damn, I hate that this happened now. When I was planning for my interior swap.
 
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