Lincoln Ls 2003 V8 - Over heating

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lzsmt3

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hello team, please check this over heating issue....I never pass a similar experience like this....

basically the car LS 2003 V8 had an issue with the thermostat....this was necessary be changed after 50 miles of drive the car....in the last 4 miles the temperature increased in a short period time to the high limit...with the protective system the car was turn off.....one time with the mechanical service the follow items was changed: thermostat, radiator, coolant temperature sensor, water pump, plastic joint parts (housings), head seals, coolant and the 2 caps (radiator & coolant tank), this last was damaged by the pressure during the over heating.

after all parts changed I still continue having in the car the high temperature in 8-10 minutes of continue engine operation, after this period time the car turn off automatically by the safety system.

I need information about the coolant flow in the system, the pump pulley rotation, the belt installation, the manner and values to test the old temperature sensor, auxiliary pump and the current CTS (cylinder temperature sensor).

notes: the fan motor is working good, none coolant leak is present, and I already test without thermostat (none change in the result).

i'll appreciate your help and comments.
 
lzsmt3 said:
hello team, please check this over heating issue....I never pass a similar experience like this....

basically the car LS 2003 V8 had an issue with the thermostat....this was necessary be changed after 50 miles of drive the car....in the last 4 miles the temperature increased in a short period time to the high limit...with the protective system the car was turn off.....one time with the mechanical service the follow items was changed: thermostat, radiator, coolant temperature sensor, water pump, plastic joint parts (housings), head seals, coolant and the 2 caps (radiator & coolant tank), this last was damaged by the pressure during the over heating.

after all parts changed I still continue having in the car the high temperature in 8-10 minutes of continue engine operation, after this period time the car turn off automatically by the safety system.

I need information about the coolant flow in the system, the pump pulley rotation, the belt installation, the manner and values to test the old temperature sensor, auxiliary pump and the current CTS (cylinder temperature sensor).

notes: the fan motor is working good, none coolant leak is present, and I already test without thermostat (none change in the result).

i'll appreciate your help and comments.
Click to expand...

After the parts were changed, did you bleed the system of air? Did you change the degas?
 
understood, i'll follow your recomendation, i'll maintin informed you about the results.
Regards
 
in the supuose that after proceed with the letter ..... the problem continue.....what can i do ??
 
lzsmt3 said:
in the supuose that after proceed with the letter ..... the problem continue.....what can i do ??
Click to expand...

Trouble shoot the issue. Just about every possible cooling system problem has been discussed here, often more than once. Do so searching of this forum.

When does it overheat? (Only at idle, only at low speeds, only at high speeds, combinations...)

Exactly what did you do and exactly which parts were replaced? Were all the associated o-rings and gaskets also replaced? Is the system pressurizing? Was the thermostat installed correctly? Who did the work?

Did you really pull the heads and replace the head gaskets? If so, why?

If you want good help, you are going to have to make an effort yourself. You will need to communicate more information, and communicate more clearly. You also need to spend some time reading and searching the forum.
 
the process was the follow:
this issue start on road...the motor turn off by the protective engine system

in the repair shop was observed a leak in the water pupm, and was visually reviewed the thermostat having an apparence very old ...was decided change both items.
the fan motor is working properly, this start to work when the temp indicator is in mid way. with this i assume that the temperature sensor is working properly, but i have not what resistence (ohms) should have this item to verify with the ohmeter.

after this changes was tested...having same result (8-10 minutes) to reach the max temp on panel and activating the protective system, was decided change the radiator by a new one. after this change the same result....

all hoses was inspected...none problem...except the plastic parts where is mounted the themostat due a small leak on wall (outlet water housing..see attached 3w4z-8548-ad)....this was replaced also the plastic pipe 2W9Z9N499AC.....after this, same result.

then i decide verify with a granite table and calipers if the head was deformed for the overheated, then havin removed the head was decided change the head gaskets, was observed that the oil without water residuals......the result after assembly all aggain was the same.
note: the engine water conducts were observed very clean, no salt or other kind of residuals.

as last option i decide change the temperature sensor, the old one can not be verified with the ohmeter (due missing technical information). also was not possible verify the Cylinder temperature sensor. only the temperature sensor was changed with the same result....

every gasket/o-ring associated was replaced.

the overheating ocurr in low, high speed and idle.....

i'm doing this repair work. this is not my first work with engines.

as you know this engine is from jaguar brand for an association that both companies had in the past.

I need information about the coolant flow in the system, the pump pulley rotation, the belt installation, the method and values to test the old temperature sensor, auxiliary pump and the current CTS (cylinder temperature sensor).

if you consider need more information, let me know.

regards,
 
It sounds to me like you just have air in the cooling system. Did you bleed it properly, and did you replace the degas bottle? The fail-safe cooling protects the head gasket, and from what I've seen they don't fail too often.
 
Ok here's what I would do if I were you, take it to the dealer and have them diagnose the issue... according to the thread you have replaced EVERYTHING - now what we don't know is what kind of work was done and what parts were used. Did you use autozone/off-brand parts? Did you use OEM/similar parts? It seems as if you know what you're doing but this car is veryyyy picky with regard to the parts used. The thermostat can also be put in backwards - as Joe had mentioned. Is it snapped into the housing correctly? It is a BITCH to do but could cause this as I have experience this myself.
 
all changed.....except the auxiliary pump and ylinder temp sensor....

felpro brand for the gaskets and orings.....water pump and temp sensor from autozone, antifreeze @98%, plastic parts are OEMs.

thermostat is not installed.

i'm thinking that the CTS is sending incorrect tmperature, this item is in charge to send the data at the PCM and then activate the safety system to stopp the car.

that was one of my questions about the method and value that must have the CTS @ ambit temp. i can not find this data in internet.
 
lzsmt3 said:
... antifreeze @98%,...
Click to expand...

That's too high. You want a 50/50 antifreeze/water mix. 98% antifreeze will not cool nearly as well as a 50/50 mix.

Here's the service manual info on the cooling system (03 is the same as 06).
http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6xs330l.htm~gen~ref.htm

BTW, even with fail safe cooling, you should never let it get to the point that it has to shut the engine down. You are shortening your engine's life.

P.S. I've been to Juarez a few times, even drank the water.
 
i'll check the manual, thank you.

what r u doing in Juarez ?.....I don't remember if any makila has offices in your city...at less that you come to ELP and visit this city....

anyway..thanks again
 
One time visiting a factory that builds some of the electronic boards that I designed, another time visiting a factory that makes an optical part used in some of my designs.
 
i already proceed to do again the procedure to release the air trapped into the engine.....the could be drave 40 miles (~1 hour on road), but after this the temperature increase the max.....the engine was turned off.....was detected more air in th engine, after release it accord at the procedure was tested again...same result....

none water residuals in the engine oil.....no leaks.....then where are going the coolant ??

other thing observed was that the temperature is maintained correctly for the engine with the heater turned on, if this is turned off the temperature begins to increase....
 
lzsmt3 said:
...was detected more air in th engine, after release it accord at the procedure was tested again...same result....
none water residuals in the engine oil.....no leaks.....then where are going the coolant ??
...
Click to expand...

A plastic part that you did not replace has a hairline crack and is letting air into the engine cooling loop. If the metal tube inside the degas bottle comes loose, it will also cause this problem.


lzsmt3 said:
...
other thing observed was that the temperature is maintained correctly for the engine with the heater turned on, if this is turned off the temperature begins to increase....
Click to expand...

I have seen this when the engine cooling loop is not correctly bled or otherwise has air in it. Please note that there are two loops, the engine loop and the heater loop. The bleed near the degas bottle is just for the heater loop. The fill procedure is important for the engine loop bleeding. The engine fill cap must be off while you fill the degas bottle, until fluid starts spilling out of the engine fill. Only then should you put the engine fill cap on. You will have to drain a gallon or so of coolant back out to do this if you have already filled it.

This can also be a symptom of a failed cooling fan, but you say that is working correctly.
 
hello, this is my first time having a problem car when the majorly of parts are been changed.

as i told you before, the problem is the 3/4 high temperature reached in 1-2 miles @ 60MPH...obviusly this condiction will generate a major damage in the engine, I can not find the root cause.....if the car is idle the temp indicator is maintained in mid range.

i already replace the water by coolant @ 50%, the valves also the fill cap for one without safety pressure valve included, for the coolant replace the letter where indicate the procedure to bled correctly is used. the degas was verified with a air pressure ...none leak was found it.

what can i do to maintain the temperature in the mid level ?
 
Did you fill it and bleed it by the letter of the factory fill/bleed procedure, or did you just wing it?

The Degas can fail without leaking. There's a metal tube inside that can come loose. If it does, you'll never get it to work.
 
hello

see next answers
joegr said:
Did you fill it and bleed it by the letter of the factory fill/bleed procedure, or did you just wing it? this was filled and bleed according the letter.

The Degas can fail without leaking. --> how can fail ?...only with the metal tube ?? There's a metal tube inside that can come loose. If it does, you'll never get it to work. --> I remove the tube due was block for a plastic piece that stop the coolant flow in the beginning of the problem, the plastic piece was removed and the tube reinstalled, no damages in any part.
Click to expand...
 
There's no way to remove and reinstall the metal tube that is inside the degas bottle. Replace the degas bottle.
 
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