Windshield Wiper/Turn Signal Switch

LSV8FAN

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Intermittently, when the car is first started, the windshield wipers turn on even though the switch is set to off. After cycling the wiper switch the wipers will turn off. The extended warranty is ending this month and the dealer will be replacing the driver's rear lower suspension arm (noisy bushings) and the wipers switch, but, the switch has been discontinued and a search shows that it is nowhere to be found. The part number, based on the service manual and my search, is 4W4Z-13K359-BA. I don't know whether the mechanic looked into the steering column wiring and connectors to make sure all is good since every time the car is started the telescoping steering wheel will position to either mine or my wife's preference, so, after so many years of telescoping and tilting maybe something in the wiring wore out, yet the mechanic just assumed it is the switch based on my problem description.
Any help or guidance on how to locate the switch or, if one of you had a similar issue, what was what you did to fix it, would be greatly appreciated.
 

SultanGris

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Guy named dalegrib had a problem with the blinker working intermittently, not sure if he every got it fixed, haven't seen him post in a while. Mines starting to go also,i haven't been able to find one either, so i only use my blinker when it matters, like when there's other traffic that needs to know, not every time I switch lanes like i used to.
 

04_Sport_LS

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You didn't say what year your LS is.

Part of this depends on the model year... and features, (rain sensing wipers etc.) Dale had problems finding the right one... because 2003 was a transition year for the LS. He did find a working switch... but IIRC it was used.

Go to rock auto and see if they have anything in stock.
 

LSV8FAN

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You didn't say what year your LS is.

Part of this depends on the model year... and features, (rain sensing wipers etc.) Dale had problems finding the right one... because 2003 was a transition year for the LS. He did find a working switch... but IIRC it was used.

Go to rock auto and see if they have anything in stock.
LS year and model in my "signature" (2005 LS V8 Ultimate). I tried Rock Auto's website and they don't list it.
Hopefully its is something with the wiring rather than the switch itself.
 

AmsterDutch

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LS year and model in my "signature" (2005 LS V8 Ultimate). I tried Rock Auto's website and they don't list it.
Hopefully its is something with the wiring rather than the switch itself.
car-parts.com
 

AmsterDutch

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Upon looking up the wiper switch on car-parts.com I see salvage yards all over the nation have them price range $25-$75 almost every salvage yard will ship this part ...OEM
 

SHORod

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In the past I've had luck cleaning the MFS using Caig De-Oxit followed by Caig Preserv-It. If you're comfortable removing and reinstalling the MFS yourself this may be an option. I doubt you'd get a shop to agree to try it though.

-Rod
 

04_Sport_LS

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LS year and model in my "signature"

Actually... the mobile site doesn't show a person's signature. Only on the desktop version.

It used to be a common courtesy on here... to list year, engine, suspension package, and options... that way there are no assumptions.

No offense meant.
 

LSV8FAN

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Still having the wiper issue on my 2005 LS Ultimate. Thanks to AmsterDutch recommendation of searching through car-part.com, I found a replacement column switch module from another 2005 LS at Mills Auto Parts in Indiana - it looked like new (the module includes the turn signal, wiper switch, hazard lights switch and the steering column adjustment switch). The dealer replaced the switch and it all worked well - until my wife sat behind the wheel.

Looks like when I drive the car, whether alone or with my wife as passenger, the wipers operate normally and they stay parked in their proper position until I turn them on. But, when my wife gets behind the wheel to drive the car, within seconds of her starting the car, the wipers start cycling. I tested all variables related to my position of pedals, steering wheel, seat, mirrors, etc. vs her position and no matter what, when I am behind the wheel wipers function OK, but she gets behind the wheel they start cycling. I came to the conclusion that the only variable between my wife and I is weight - she's heavier than me.

I did remove the steering column cover, unplugged the connectors and spray them with connector cleaner - that didn't help.

So now I'm looking for suggestions on where to look next, like is there something in the seat module that may cause the issue based on weight? This issue is very puzzling, to a point where I'm considering adding a "kill Switch" (toggle switch) to turn off power to the wiper motor when not in use.
 

joegr

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Your wife has a different memory position for you for the steering wheel, side mirrors, and seat, correct?
Try her memory setting and see if the problem happens for you. I don't recall the driver's seat as having any occupant classification sensors (some passenger seats do). I would expect it to be the steering wheel position, and that would mean that the dealership misrouted one of the cables to the multi-function switch.
 

LSV8FAN

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Thanks for the reply joegr. I did that; I did drive the car with my wife's memory position for the steering wheel, side mirrors, etc., and I had no issues. And once I let my wife sit behind the wheel without changing anything or even turning off the engine, the wipers turn on.

I also looked in the T'Bird forum and there are people that have the issue. They even went into rebuilding the FEM to address other issues like lights, but that didn't solve the intermittent wiper on issue.
 

joegr

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The wipers on the 1st gen were controlled via the FEM, but your 2nd gen has the control electronics built into the wiper assembly itself (specifically, the wiper motor). The module does not even connect to any of the data buses in the car, just to power, the multi-function switch, ground, and one wire to (not from) the FEM. This wire is a signal to the FEM that the wipers are on, so that it will turn the headlights on (if the headlight switch is in the auto position). Even if there were sensors in the seat, there's no way for the wipers to know about them.

Perhaps your wife has an electric personality? Demon possession?
 

AmsterDutch

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Joegr I am going to agree with the Electric personality...but on a serious note...do the wipers stay on the whole time your wife is behind the wheel or do they cycle only once then stop?
 

LSV8FAN

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Joegr I am going to agree with the Electric personality...but on a serious note...do the wipers stay on the whole time your wife is behind the wheel or do they cycle only once then stop?
The wipers will cycle a few times (about 2-10 times) and stop.

Someone on the T'Bird forum did mention about an electrolytic capacitor "drying up", but I doubt that in the hot environment of an engine compartment they would put an electrolytic capacitor in the FEM, wiper motor or column switch module electronics. As far as electric personality, my wife being of a larger mass could act or provide capacity energy that affects one of the electronic modules, kind of like capacitive touch screens. Certainly a very challenging problem to solve.

And I did consider the idea of having a priest perform exorcism.
 

04_Sport_LS

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You could check the seat frame for cracks.

Maybe a wire is getting pinched or shorted. Try unplugging the harnesses under the seat... one at a time.

Just a thought considering how "tied in to everything" the whole LS electrical system is.
 

joegr

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Sadly, they did use some electrolytic caps here and there. The FEM is behind the driver's kick panel, not in the engine compartment. (But, the FEM is not involved with the wipers on gen II.) They also used some MOVs, and those have a limited lifetime as well.
 

AmsterDutch

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Maybe a wire is getting pinched or shorted. Try unplugging the harnesses under the seat... one at a time
About the only thing that makes sense if the weight difference is the reason why these wipers are not behaving
 

LSV8FAN

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I checked the wiring under the seat, wiggled all the connectors and repositioned the seat for both, my wife and I, since we both had the seat height at the bottom of the travel. My wife went to get the car out of the garage, started it up with no issues, but right after putting the trans in reverse, the wipers started going. They worked intermittently during her drive for about 45 sec to 1 minute and stopped. When she arrived at her destination, did her shopping and got back into the car to come back home, there were no issues with the wipers. All this time when I drive the car I don't have any issues with the wipers - puzzling.
 

JustALs

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I was also looking for a switch for my 2000lsv8 mine let go yesterday and got a ticket #####
 

LSV8FAN

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I was also looking for a switch for my 2000lsv8 mine let go yesterday and got a ticket #####
Check Car-Part.com, enter year and model and under the "Select Part" drop down menu, select Column Switch. You'll get a list of salvage yards that carry the switch; you can also select the geographical area for where to search.

I believe the P/N for the switch for the 2000 LS (first gen) is different from the the second gen (2003-2006), plus there is a different P/N between rain sensing option and no rain sensing.
 

LSV8FAN

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I performed an experiment today to simulate my wife's weight; I used a bag of soil to put on the seat and sat on it to start the car - no issues with the wipers, thus I concluded that the wiper issue is not related to weight.

However, looks like my wife and I found a work-around for her. I turned on the wipers to the lowest intermittent setting and then shut off the engine, leaving the wipers in a position other than the parked one. When my wife got into the car, she started it, put on the seat belt, put the car in reverse and then turned off the wipers - the wipers stayed off. She went to do her shopping and left the wipers in the parked/off position when she turned off the engine. When she returned back to the car, she first tuned on the wipers to the lowest intermittent setting, started the car and then turned off the wipers, and that also worked - the wipers stayed off.

Apparently, my wife's "electric personality" (whether capacitive or other) has an effect on the electronics that control the wipers. For curiosity's sake, I'll see if I can perform more experiments with men and women to check the behavior of the wipers, in the meantime we'll continue testing the two work-around methods we found.

I plan to remove the cowl cover and the strut tower support and check the tightness of all the bolts that hold the wiper motor, and the mounting arm and pivot shaft assembly; want to make sure that everything is tight and well grounded.
 

JustALs

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Check Car-Part.com, enter year and model and under the "Select Part" drop down menu, select Column Switch. You'll get a list of salvage yards that carry the switch; you can also select the geographical area for where to search.

I believe the P/N for the switch for the 2000 LS (first gen) is different from the the second gen (2003-2006), plus there is a different P/N between rain sensing option and no rain sensing.
Thanks but I fixed it.
it was a black rectangular connector on the right side under the column cover, it looked like it was plugged in properly but as I pushed on it everything works again now
 

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