Where are we headed?

JoeyGood

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Where are we headed?

We have a war we have been fighting form 3 ½ years, that was said to protect us against WMD (weapons of mass destruction) and to help a country rid itself of dictatorship.

My View- this war is base on MONEY & CONTROL. They (<-government) don’t give 2 sh!ts about us and what happens here unless it has to do with their pockets. They use this war to pass BILLS and LAWS that not only take away some of our rights but benefit the rich. Look at oil companies and you’ll see what I’m talking about. “Oh but we don’t have enough refineries to produce” (<-BULLSH!T)

We have the technology to pinpoint a cell phone up to 5 inches of where it is being used and yet we can’t detect explosives at our airports. So that being said, the TSA decided to ban anything and everything that can be used by a person like MACGYVER to make a bomb within a few minutes. This is to cover up the fact that the TSA can’t train their employees the correct way to detect anything that looks suspicious. So what is next? Maybe we’ll have to take planes in the buff.

We have the technology to use heat sensors to find bodies under ruble of fallen buildings and sunken mines and yet we can’t find a single sheepherder in the mountains. You see it wouldn’t be feasible for the US to catch OSAMA because then what could they use as an excuse to get more funding monies for whatever it is they are wasting it on because as you can see by photos and news clips it’s not going to our troops. This war was what they needed to get all the stocked up out of date ammo and weapons they had in storage where the enemy is getting hi-tech gear on the black market and other countries willing to make a buck.

9/11. They knew it was going to happen maybe not when and where but they knew. It’s just that each part of the government looks to screw the other and keep their funding that they didn’t have the sense to collaborate and stop it before it happened. Again we come to the BILLS & LAWS part that now they want to listen in on our conversations to see if any “TERRORIST WORDS OR PHRASES” are heard. You say they need a court order for that I say BS. They can do what they want they are the government and can get the paperwork made up in flash if need be.

The media – Oh Boy now this is a real joke. All news and videos published are only what the government wants us to know as far as political and world facts go. They are all prescreened to ensure nothing the government doesn’t want us know comes out that is why the FCC has the 5 second delay rule. Think I’m kidding look it up and you’ll see “OH but that’s to censor anything that is not appropriate for viewers” (<- More BS)

The FDA – HA another joke. It is made up of all the big pharmaceutical company owners and they decide what is released and what is not and if will hurt their pocket it will not get released. (Search Google for the pill in Europe that cures the common cold and then ask yourself why it has not been brought here). The stuff they have approved for years that can be used in foods all over the country is now said to be very bad for us and they are regulating it now (gee thanks a little too late don’t you think) but guess who is selling all the new things they will be using ?

I can just hear all the moaning and groaning now and some may say this is a conspiracy theorist talking.

BullSh!t!!! Everything I have stated above is nothing new nor is it hidden anywhere. It’s been here all this time and I’m just pointing out what I see.

I love this country with all my heart and would go into battle if I had to. I was born here and will die here but come on man give us a break on some of the crap going on. If we weren’t worried about all this politically correct crap and still had some type of balls in this country we would be where we are today. The real terror is not being able to do things we used to do and we’ve come to point where we can’t walk into plane with a Starbucks coffee we just bought inside the checkpoint area of the airport while waiting to board the plane.
 
Be careful - the tinfoil can sometimes flake off into your eyes if you're not careful.
 
fossten said:
Be careful - the tinfoil can sometimes flake off into your eyes if you're not careful.


WOW! LOL, that was it? Usually I get a real lashing from you. Does this mean you actually see things the same way somewhat?
 
JoeyGood said:
WOW! LOL, that was it? Usually I get a real lashing from you. Does this mean you actually see things the same way somewhat?
You left out the part where you still believe Rove was the leaker.

If what you said was intended to be inflammatory, it would be a waste of time to answer it. Your assertions are too myriad and too indicative of an uninformed mind to bother attempting to correct on all points. It simply wouldn't do any good. It is just as easy to say (correctly) that you couldn't be more wrong on all points. The entire post totally discredits your claim that you love this country.

If what you said was intended to open an honest and healthy debate, which I doubt, then select just one of your assertions and I will discuss it with you.

I will not be drawn into a useless argument with a Kool-Aid drinking, tinfoil-hat-wearing, hate-filled liberal who is no different than haters like Johnny or Phil, who both have zero credibility.
 
fossten said:
You left out the part where you still believe Rove was the leaker.

If what you said was intended to be inflammatory, it would be a waste of time to answer it. Your assertions are too myriad and too indicative of an uninformed mind to bother attempting to correct on all points. It simply wouldn't do any good. It is just as easy to say (correctly) that you couldn't be more wrong on all points. The entire post totally discredits your claim that you love this country.

If what you said was intended to open an honest and healthy debate, which I doubt, then select just one of your assertions and I will discuss it with you.

I will not be drawn into a useless argument with a Kool-Aid drinking, tinfoil-hat-wearing, hate-filled liberal who is no different than haters like Johnny or Phil, who both have zero credibility.



Well first off I DO LOVE THIS COUNTRY otherwise I would have left it a while ago and can do so without any hardship

I don’t like KOOL-AID

Tinfoil-hat-wearing- don’t like hats that much besides it ruins my hair (what little I got left)

Hate-filled liberal - I don’t hate and as for being a liberal I don’t think so because I think a lot of some of the laws and policies put in place a good for us.

I will agree though that Johnny and Phil are full of crap.

IF you could answer just what and how we benefit from this war other than wasting money.

How could it be possible that OSAMA has been able to escape from being caught (5 years and still searching) but meanwhile we were able to find SADAM? (<- in the mountains no less)

The TSA not letting a person board a plane with a cup of BLACK COFFEE that was purchased after going through the checkpoint where I was only carrying the coffee and a laptop in a bag (mind you I was only carrying it to hand it to them to stow below after they tagged it at the checkpoint)

Notice I have not complained about the wait at the check point because I think that should be the most important part of our traveling and I mean that. Hell I would even go through that new X-RAY machine if I had to.

I’ll leave out the 9/11, FDA and media because I know that would be a losing battle with you even though it has been said different parts of the government knew about 9/11
 
JoeyGood said:
How could it be possible that OSAMA has been able to escape from being caught (5 years and still searching) but meanwhile we were able to find SADAM? (<- in the mountains no less)

Once again you couldn't be more wrong. I would be interested to hear where you get the bulk of your info. What sources? Not to make fun of you but it might help to explain why you are confused on so many issues.

Here is where Saddam was captured. Not too many mountains around unless you call some bushes near a river a 'mountain'.

Saddam was caught like the rat that he is, cowering in a hole. He had a gun and didn't fire a shot. His sons would have been ashamed of him, captured without honor.
 
JoeyGood said:
Where are we headed?
We have a war we have been fighting form 3 ½ years, that was said to protect us against WMD (weapons of mass destruction) and to help a country rid itself of dictatorship.
It was about those things, and much more than that. The theater of war in Iraq was also about changing the face of the Middle East. By aiding in the establishment of a Muslim Democracy that would, ideally, lead to a long term change in the politics of the Middle East. It's a very ambitious goal, but it seems to be the only option available other than a full scale class of civilizations.

See, people don't seem to realize this. If Iraq fails, we won't see peace. It will be the start of a full scaled, global war. Where the dividing lines around the world are drawn is not even known.

When people speak about "pulling out of Iraq," they never honestly address the alternatives. They always misrepresent WHY we went to war, and then they avoid the realities associated with what happens if we leave too early.

It's either very dishonest, or it's naive. Regardless the motivation, the results will be bloody.


My View- this war is base on MONEY & CONTROL. They (<-government) don’t give 2 sh!ts about us and what happens here unless it has to do with their pockets. They use this war to pass BILLS and LAWS that not only take away some of our rights but benefit the rich. Look at oil companies and you’ll see what I’m talking about. “Oh but we don’t have enough refineries to produce” (<-BULLSH!T)
Ignorant statement. This war is ENTIRELY about security. It's based on liberal concepts of foreign policy and globalization. It's about finding a way to eventually drain the swamps of Islamic terror without having to kill everyone within in the region.

You're argument is rhetoric and completely unsubstantiated. What "bills and laws were passed to take away our rights and benefit the rich." That is an ignorant statement.

What about the oil companies? If this was a war about oil, prices would have FALLEN, because the supply would have increased. Hell, if you knew what you were talking about, I wouldn't be compelled to explain that if this war was about oil, we could have just lifted the damn sanctions on Iraq and BOUGHT the oil for much less money.



We have the technology to pinpoint a cell phone up to 5 inches of where it is being used and yet we can’t detect explosives at our airports.
You compare apples to oranges. The concepts of cell phone tower triangulation, when used in isolated instances has nothing to do with airport security and it's application to the hundreds of millions of airline passengers a year.

Furthermore, who says we can't "detect explosives." Did I miss a story somewhere about terrorist blowing up airplanes using explosives?

When you speak of "detection"- you also need to talk about the inconvience. How intrusive do you want to the airport screeners to be when boarding a plane?

But explosives can be detected. If you don't believe me, go to a gun range an hour before trying to board an airplane. Most likely, the residual gunpowder on your hands will trigger an alarm.

So that being said, the TSA decided to ban anything and everything that can be used by a person like MACGYVER to make a bomb within a few minutes. This is to cover up the fact that the TSA can’t train their employees the correct way to detect anything that looks suspicious. So what is next? Maybe we’ll have to take planes in the buff.
Seriously, you're very ignorant.

First of all, I don't want to be accused of defending the airport security, I think the decision to make them government employed, union protected employees was a huge mistake. I do think the system could be refined and perform better.

Secondly, you don't need to be a "Macgyver" in order to mix chemicals together to make an explosive. Furthermore, you're underestimating the ability of these terrorists. They STUDY bomb making. On 9/11, these guys learned to fly airplanes, why can't them mix fluids together?

It's a very valid concern. Personally, I would argue that we need to invest more money into keeping terrorist associates off planes, it's a mistake to invest all our focus on just contraband.

We have the technology to use heat sensors to find bodies under ruble of fallen buildings and sunken mines and yet we can’t find a single sheepherder in the mountains.
This is such an idiotic over simplification. When you're looking for a body:

1. You know where the body is, within about 100 feet.
2. You're able to gain access to the area where the body was lost
3. Sending in a team to the area won't trigger an international incident that will likely cause an unstable nuclear government fall into the hands of radical Islamists.

You see it wouldn’t be feasible for the US to catch OSAMA because then what could they use as an excuse to get more funding monies for whatever it is they are wasting it on because as you can see by photos and news clips it’s not going to our troops.
As mentioned, there are very real reasons why it's so difficult to capture Bin Laden. 1. We're not able to send forced into the region. 2. The region is mostly uncharted 3. The Pakistanian Gov't doesn't even control that region. 4. US forces would likely trigger the overthow of the Pakistani gov't. 5. He's one popular guy, living in a terribly remote area, with the assistance of tribal leaders.

If we caught Bin Laden today, don't you think there'd be HUGE political value to the Republicans and President Bush? Don't you think that'd be a good thing for the GOP? You're conspiracy argument isn't just flawed, it's nonsense.

This war was what they needed to get all the stocked up out of date ammo and weapons they had in storage where the enemy is getting hi-tech gear on the black market and other countries willing to make a buck.
What are you basing this idiotic statement on? No one, anywhere, has accused the terrorists of being better supplied than the American soldier.

9/11. They knew it was going to happen maybe not when and where but they knew. It’s just that each part of the government looks to screw the other and keep their funding that they didn’t have the sense to collaborate and stop it before it happened. Again we come to the BILLS & LAWS part that now they want to listen in on our conversations to see if any “TERRORIST WORDS OR PHRASES” are heard. You say they need a court order for that I say BS. They can do what they want they are the government and can get the paperwork made up in flash if need be.
blah-blah-blah--- I'm actually getting tired of responding. That post is flow of conscience from a guy who doesn't understand the world. And I honestly don't mean that in a condescending way. Things are incredibly confusing and difficult and most people lack the time or interest to understand the nuance.

It's overwhelming. And alot of it is really, really, dire. Unfortunately, the more you know, the harder it is to remain optomistic.

The media – Oh Boy now this is a real joke. All news and videos published are only what the government wants us to know as far as political and world facts go. They are all prescreened to ensure nothing the government doesn’t want us know comes out that is why the FCC has the 5 second delay rule. Think I’m kidding look it up and you’ll see “OH but that’s to censor anything that is not appropriate for viewers” (<- More BS)
Totally wrong. The government has NO control over the media. And terrorist organizations have been using the media throughout the world to advance their agenda.

Do you think the government told the NY TImes to leak classified information, repeatedly?

Unfortunately, for the sake of security, a little media control at times might be a good thing.

The FDA – HA another joke. It is made up of all the big pharmaceutical company owners and they decide what is released and what is not and if will hurt their pocket it will not get released. (Search Google for the pill in Europe that cures the common cold and then ask yourself why it has not been brought here). The stuff they have approved for years that can be used in foods all over the country is now said to be very bad for us and they are regulating it now (gee thanks a little too late don’t you think) but guess who is selling all the new things they will be using ?
Holy crap... I give up.
If those "common cold" pills work, go buy some off the internet.

I can just hear all the moaning and groaning now and some may say this is a conspiracy theorist talking.
No, it's just idiotic.

BullSh!t!!! Everything I have stated above is nothing new nor is it hidden anywhere. It’s been here all this time and I’m just pointing out what I see.
Nor does it have any foundation in truth. It is the rambling of a confused and scared guy in a dangerous world, hoping to find easy answers, and place blame.
 
Calabrio said:
Nor does it have any foundation in truth. It is the rambling of a confused and scared guy in a dangerous world, hoping to find easy answers, and place blame.
If I thought wasting an hour of my life would potentially inform this guy and save him from the disinformation police that have placed him under arrest, I would. Unfortunately, I don't see therapy (the truth) helping this guy at this time. There is soo much wrong with what he says. It would take too much time to refute it all.
 
JoeyGood said:
IF you could answer just what and how we benefit from this war other than wasting money.

I'll speak to this, since you went on another rant and I'm not interested in answering all your points.

1. Al Qaeda knows, and has stated unequivocally in its communications, that if they lose in Iraq, they will have a hard time surviving.
2. Bush knows that a democratic Iraq not only proves to the Islamic world that terrorism can be defeated, but that people are better off in democracies than they are dictatorships.
3. Fighting the terrorists overseas keeps them focused on an area far from our homeland, which helps keep us safe here at home. Like it or not, Bush is proving that a good offense is a great defense.
4. Having Iraq as an ally allows us to have a base in the middle east that will permit us to deal with Iran and Syria when the time comes.
5. Aren't millions of grateful Iraqis reason enough to say that the war has been worth it?
6. Rebuttal to the "war for oil" claim: If all we wanted was oil, why didn't we just conquer Kuwait and steal their oil while we were there in 1991?
7. Money isn't being wasted. I know that you only watch the news that reports two soldiers' death per day, but hundreds of schools and hospitals have been built in the last few years in Iraq. Countless other accomplishments have been made in rebuilding that country, which you won't see on the MSM. But if you're really interested, look here:
http://www.defendamerica.mil/iraq/rebuilding.html

Now, some reasons why cutting and running would be disastrous:

1. It would embolden our terrorist enemies much like Clinton's cut and run from Somalia emboldened bin Laden. This is not in dispute: bin Laden was quoted as saying that he viewed the US as a paper tiger b/c of the Somalia retreat.
2. It would leave Iraq open to invasion and conquest by Iran, and that wouldn't take months to happen.
3. It would show that the US doesn't stand by her allies.
4. It would increase hostility toward Israel.
5. It would mean all the gains and blood we've shed so far are in vain.
 
(Search Google for the pill in Europe that cures the common cold and then ask yourself why it has not been brought here).

Have you not ever heard of Zicam? :rolleyes:
 
October 23, 2006
Uneasy for a Reason
By Michael Barone

In the midst of the campaign month of October came the news last week that the population of the United States has passed the 300 million mark. There's a sharp contrast between the negativity of the political climate and the robustness of our demographic increase -- we were at 200 million in 1967, less than four decades ago.

Then, as now, Americans were in a negative mood, but had much more to be depressed about. We were then mired in a war that produced more than 20 times the number of American deaths as the conflict in Iraq has so far. We were in the midst of the Cold War, with its ever-present threat of nuclear annihilation, and the bipartisan Cold War consensus was about to break down. Our cities were ablaze in race riots, and our economy was about to enter an era of stagflation -- low growth and high inflation.

Now, most things are demonstrably better. As I noted last summer, levels of warfare around the world have reached a historic low, so that even the loss of one American life in Iraq can land on the front page. The world economy is growing as never before, with millions of people rising out of poverty every year. The American economy continues to surge ahead.

Since 1983, we have lived through just two brief recessions, one at the beginning of each decade, and otherwise have had low inflation and steady economic growth. Crime and welfare dependency have been approximately halved in the past 15 years. Our air and water are much cleaner than they were when there were 100 million fewer of us. Our life expectancies are longer.

Why so cranky? So why do large majorities of voters say the nation is off on the wrong track? One reason is that we have come to expect good things. Even as consumers keep spending lots of money, they get cranky when gas prices spike upward -- and then don't take much note when, presto, the market works and they plunge back down again. We take it for granted that Times Square is as crime free a tourist zone as Walt Disney World. We are dismayed by continuing violence in Iraq because we have come to expect military interventions to be as casualty free as our effort in Kosovo.

But there is something else. It's the looming threat behind the headlines: London terrorist bombers arrested. Terrorist plot to bomb trains in Germany. Iran is developing nuclear weapons, while its president denies the Holocaust and threatens to destroy Israel. Hugo Chavez at the United Nations railing at the United States. North Korea is developing nuclear weapons to go with the missiles it already has. All these remind us that there are people out there who want to destroy our bounteous and tolerant civilization.

And we know, since Sept. 11, 2001, that they will inflict any damage they can. North Korea is a proven weapons proliferator. Iran is the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism. It's not hard to imagine them equipping terrorists with nuclear weapons -- or with the biological weapons (anthrax, plague) North Korea is said to be developing. Remember the anthrax attacks of September 2001? It turns out we still have no idea where the anthrax came from.

"History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake," the novelist James Joyce once wrote. From the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union up until the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, we were on a holiday from history. We were happy to pay little attention to the Islamofascist terrorist threat that should have been apparent from the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993. We left that to government officials, who took it seriously and did some things to address it -- but in hindsight not enough. Since then, we took the offensive and have had some successes in stopping terrorists. But we seem to be growing tired of the fight.

Now it appears that voters are willing to turn over Congress to a party most of whose representatives voted against allowing the National Security Agency to surveil without a court order al-Qaida suspects when they place calls to persons in the United States and against allowing terrorist interrogations under rules supported by John McCain.

We are weary, it seems, and ready to go back on holiday. Some things -- a nuclear attack on the United States, the successful release of a disease pathogen that could kill millions -- are just too horrifying to think about. But maybe we should think more about them. As Leon Trotsky is supposed to have said, "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you."

Copyright 2006 Creators Syndicate
 
MonsterMark said:
Saddam was caught like the rat that he is, cowering in a hole. He had a gun and didn't fire a shot. His sons would have been ashamed of him, captured without honor.
Mark I stand corrected but to tell you the truth when shown on the military channel it didn't look like that but the view was from ground level (what little they small clips they had and rest were still shots from I guess huts or the houses) and it looked like it.

fossten said:
Have you not ever heard of Zicam?
yes but too many side affects from what I read


Now I’m not a person to hide the fact that I can be proven wrong and will admit to it though I might not agree with some points on how things are handled but between Fossten's and Calabrio's last 2 post I can say my eyes have been opened especially from the article Calabrio posted.

There is more at stake than what think we know.
 
I've used Zicam, and I can tell you that it absolutely works, and the only side effect is that it tastes like sh!t. :D
 

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