When should a dealer step up?

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MDavis0424

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I bought a "premier certified pre-owned" 2004 LS V8 ultimate with 22,000 miles in October. It's now being towed back to the dealer for the fourth time. Same basic problem all four times, driving along and the engine quits running. It will restart, but will not stay running, car will not even move. First time they replaced the throttle body, second time the mass air flow sensor, third time they replaced the PCM. It sounds similar to problems others have had with #4 coil causing RF interference and freaking the computer out. They wouldn't replace the coil, but they did swap the coils from left to right. Last time it died, the computer did not show any codes at all. Factory tech support agreed that it had to be the PCM.

If it was new, it would obviously be covered under lemon laws and they would have replaced it by now. What is a reasonable expectation for a "premier certified pre-owned" used car? They obviously don't have a clue what's wrong with it, how many times should I be expected to let them throw parts at it until they get lucky?
 
check out your local lemon laws, and any applicable warenty laws in your state, even though it wasnt new there are still some laws that apply to anything bought from a dealer or with any implied warrenty, i just dont remeber what theyre called, google it, thats were i found all my info for illinois
 
As far as I can tell, Ohio's law only covers cars for the first year after delivery. It does include subsequent buyers, but only if they bought the car within the first year after it was originally titled.

Legal remedies aside, what is a reasonable expectation from a premier luxury dealer?
 
A 2004 with 22k miles is still under full factory warranty, so cost issues for the repairs should not be the problem. What's your real question here? Are you asking whether the dealer will/should take the car back?

Could it be a clogged fuel filter or perhaps the fuel pump? I believe others have had issues with symptoms similar to the ones you describe. The coil interference RF computer freak out theory doesn't seem right because I would expect that problem to occur and be discussed more frequently on this board. IIRC, I don't recall anyone determining that was the cause.

Lou Senko (QuikLS) may have some insight into this problem.
 
The repairs are covered under warranty, and free loaner cars have been provided under the premier certified program. Still, I've owned the car for three months and it's spent more than three weeks of that time in the shop. They have put almost as many miles on the car testing it as I have driving it. More than warranty, it is a safety issue. The car runs perfectly right up to the point where it dies. The first time I was pulling out into heavy traffic when the engine quits, I was lucky that there was a parking lot directly across I was able to coast into. Second time it dies in the middle of a curve on a four lane divided highway with high curbs and no shoulder. Third time it dies at 70mph, in the center lane of I-75 during rush hour, on a stretch of expressway with very narrow shoulders. Lincoln roadside assistance says I have to wait with the car for the tow truck to arrive with a steady stream of semis buzzing two feet from my left ear.

First time it throws codes: KOEO, PO121, PO122, PO221, PO223, P1260, and P2110. Second time no codes, they unplug mass air filter and plug back in and the car starts and runs fine. Third time no codes, unplug mass air filter and plug back in and the car starts and runs fine again. They have performed fuel pressure test twice. Fourth time was a little different, the engine lost power, check engine light came on and as I was pulling off the road CEL went off and power was back. Ran normal for maybe 30 seconds, then complete loss of power again, but no CEL. Sitting on the side of the road, restarted and ran normally the rest of the way home (I was less than a mile away when it died). It seems like an electrical/computer failure of some sort, it's an all or nothing type of problem. When it's running, it runs perfect. When it's in failure mode it will start but will either idle very poorly or not at all. There was a strong fuel odor the first time, but I have not noticed this since.

My question is, what is a reasonable expectation for a "premier certified pre-owned" vehicle? How many attempts should the dealer / factory be allowed to make at repairs, before they admit there is a fundamental problem with the vehicle they can't fix? I'm not talking about heated seats that don't heat or a window that won't roll down, this car just stops running without warning.
 
I was in the same boat as you are in now, so i understand thats its a pain in the ass and a big inconvienence. But the truth is the problem is being handled exactly as it is supposed to be. They go step by step fixing one thing, then move on to another. You bought a used car, same as i, and things can break. Their not supposed too, but it happens. The LS is a very advanced car. Along with normal "car" stuff going wrong it seems the LS is prone to wacky things going wrong due to it being very sophisticated. My 2002 LS had no problems what so ever, ran great. My new '05 has had the throttle body replaced, new coils, new wheel sensor, new rack & pinion. As far as your problem, the codes may suggest one thing, but the actual cause could be something hidden that needs to be found by trial/error or technical knowledge. Its all free so you just need to let it play out and get fixed. Mine started with a tps sensor, then it moved to whole new throttle body, then it moved to 4 bad coils. After the 4 new coils the car has been fine. The point is they just need to keep working on it, fixing one thing at a time until its corrected. With your car being a 2004 its possible the warranty will be out by the end of the year depending on its birth date. Look at it that by the time they get done with it the car should be running good with alot of new parts. Hopefully your rental is nice. Mine was out for 11 days straight. I had a Taurus, Escape, and a Town Car. The Lincoln dealer that i started to go to now allows for free rentals to all cars still under warranty, and allows $15 credit towards a rental if the car is out of warranty. Its funny because when i go to the Lincoln dealer i am always the youngest person, i feel like i should be dropping off my grandfathers car or something. From the other customers there, the service advisors, the salesmen, the receptionist, all older people. Nice little Barneys coffee station too.
 
MDavis0424 said:
As far as I can tell, Ohio's law only covers cars for the first year after delivery. It does include subsequent buyers, but only if they bought the car within the first year after it was originally titled.

Legal remedies aside, what is a reasonable expectation from a premier luxury dealer?
Click to expand...
well since i hate all car dealers and feel they are the scum of the earth, im not surprised at all that they are doing this to you
 
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