we all need 400rwhp 6spd LS's with LSD's...

[NateRW21]

HA... BLAH!!!

I don't know; it's nothin more than a performance. Maybe if they didn't actually have "winners". My problem is who "wins" is entirely subjective and not based on some system of solid data.

Oh well

 

[Kelleyo]

FYI in 2004 some FOMOCO engineers entered the Car& Drive One Lap of America race with an LS. They put in a Rousch V8 and a 6 speed:
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=17650

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/8327/2004-one-lap-of-america-asleep-at-the-wheel-page6.html

49th Place — 2003 Lincoln LS V-8

When was the last time you tried putting a car on your expense report? Hey, it worked for these guys—Chet Dhruna (left), Jamie Venezia (middle), and Matt List, a trio of Lincoln engineers who stuffed a 390-hp, 4.6-liter Roush V-8 into a Lincoln LS to run this year's One Lap. It looked like a promising setup, and cooler still, it had the blessing of the boss. Unfortunately, the hot-rod Lincoln ventilated its engine block in its first run at Heartland Park. The boys phoned home, and the boss, Ned Nuss, told them to find a way to finish, then helped them implement his mandate with some online research. The solution was a $15,000 '03 Ford Crown Victoria, which the trio split three ways on their corporate credit cards. Swapping engines and getting the supercharger hardware attached took about 11 hours, and by 5 a.m. the next morning, the Lincoln was on its way to Pikes Peak. The body of the Crown Vic donor car will be used by Ford R&D.

 

[SlickLS]

Dude... where do you get this FOCKED UP information??? This is like the 3rd time you've thrown something out there that is totally 100% wrong... as in... it's been beaten to death a long time ago that it's wrong.

McLaren never finished the prototype car, they don't have any kits, they don't do work on LS's... sh!t, I'm pretty sure the "McLaren" grill isn't even made by McLaren; I believe it's a copy of their prototype.

Research stuff before you commit it to writing; it'll make you look a lot less "slow".

Hey buddy I know that they didn't finish the prototype but if you actually did something (like call McLaren, like I did) you would have found out that they will work on almost any car for the right price. So before you try to call someone else out of something why don't you do alittle RESEARCH for yourself.

 

[thethirdeye88]

money money money...MONEY!!!...yeah, you could probably have roush build your LS for enough cash...

 

[gcwimmer]

You could save money and just buy a M5 or S Type R Jag and complain what it cost to make it look like a Lincoln LS.

 

[NateRW21]

Tell you what...I'll give em a call. But I already know their answer will be "no we do not work on the LS, we don't set-up superchargers and we don't build suspensions".

If they were in-fact in the business of doing this to the LS; everyone on this forum that's been here for a little while would know about it... AND there would be a real, McLaren LS roaming about somewhere... which there is not.

Suspension parts; if they had anything above and beyond eibach springs, they would be marketing it to the public... they are not. The only suspension mods in existence are the eibach's and possibly a couple LEDA (I believe that's the spelling) shock kits (which seem to no long be available and were outrageously expensive)

Brakes; Stoptech is the only company that has true brake system upgrades for the LS... AGAIN... if anyone had something else, it would be marketed...

Supercharger; Don't you think if a company is in the business of supercharging the LS, there would be more than ONE supercharged LS in existence? Supercharger kits? SOMETHING?!?!?


The facts do not even come close to supporting your assertions... but I'll verify with McLaren on wed.

 

[cammerfe]

McLaren LS

McLaren did, in fact, build more than one five litre, 420 HP '4.6' LS. In order to get the engine to fit under the stock hood, they found it necessary to design and have cast, of magnesium, an intake manifold that was lower without giving up any flow. This was under a prototype contract from FoMoCo. Obviously, Ford didn't 'buy' the idea. I saw them at McLaren while being put together, and Friend Ben managed to arrange to take one over for a 'very extended' test session. (See Detroit: Spring Gold)

 

[thethirdeye88]

ooohhhh......heated convo....keep it up guys...i wanna see where it goes...either way, it would be bad ass to have a McLaren LS...

 

[cammerfe]

Extension of comments

McLaren did, in fact, build more than one five litre, 420 HP '4.6' LS. In order to get the engine to fit under the stock hood, they found it necessary to design and have cast, of magnesium, an intake manifold that was lower without giving up any flow. This was under a prototype contract from FoMoCo. Obviously, Ford didn't 'buy' the idea. I saw them at McLaren while being put together, and Friend Ben managed to arrange to take one over for a 'very extended' test session. (See Detroit: Spring Gold)

The above is emphatically NOT to start any argumentation. Unless you live in Livonia, Michigan, you'd not have seen either of them during the test time. And when they were turned over to Ford, they'll have been in Dearborn. Neither of them looked at all different then a purely stock version. The one Ben has is Brit Green and he's put on aftermarket 18" wheels and tires. It's also a little 'growly' due to a custom-bent 3" exhaust. The reason I know that it's possible to use Koni coil-overs is that I made one of the return calls while figuring out what components were necessary.

Upon consideration, I'd not have put in the 'Mod' motor. Since I've started the exploration of the Jag series, and particularly because I know it's possible to get 5 litres from a block with that particular architecture, I'd surely go with the original engine design. I know of a 2500 HP turbo'd Race Mustang that's regularly driven on the street. It's one of the best 'Pro Five Oh' Mustangs out there. I believe that it would be possible to perform the same modifications to the Jag engine and get at least the same results---cubic inch for cubic inch. Think about it and smile; then remember that driving over to the store or even a few miles down the street is not the same as a true daily driver. But if you wanted to do the development, you could probably get 1500 HP or more. You'd then need to refresh it with new rings, etc., every ten thousand miles or so. In normal city driving, not including driving on expressways, you probably don't use more than a hundred HP or thereabouts. But some of us are far from normal !!

 

[NateRW21]

My point was McLaren does not have a package for the LS, and it's highly unlikely they are any longer accepting work for the LS... Let alone everything as described for $12k.

Prototypes are one thing... production-conversion programs are another entirely.

But... very cool to hear about the 4.6L's!

 

[thethirdeye88]

1500 streetable horsepower?...ummm...thats unreasonable...waaayy tooo much....now aobut 500 hp, thats sounds a little better, still a sh!t ton of power and you can actually use it...1500?...how much boost would that be?...probably around 30lbs?...dont get me wrong, yes it would be awesome to roll around having 1500hp or even close to that...but in a logical sense, i dont see the use to that unless it was a race car and you got ballsy and decided to take it around the block or something...

 

[bufordtpisser]

Why............

You could save money and just buy a M5 or S Type R Jag and complain what it cost to make it look like a Lincoln LS.

Believe me, the guys who have the M5's and type S and R jags are not sitting around thinking how they would want to make their cars look like a LS. Don't get me wrong here, I like the looks of the LS, but they are not the end all be all car, luxury or otherwise. They are many cars out that will out perform the LS and look much better doing it. Some of you guys just seem to think that everyone suffers from LS envy, and nothing could be further from the truth. I have yet to see an LS that will out perform or out handle an M3 or an M5. And yes, I have driven them all. Likes and dislikes in performance or looks of a car is a very personal thing. Me personally, my ultimate car would be a Dodge Viper. Looks and just plain ground pounding performance in one package. Or a Corvette, or an M5, or an AMG, or whatever. But since the Mark VIII, Lincoln and performance have not gone hand in hand. And probably never will again.

 

[ILLS]

1500 streetable horsepower?...ummm...thats unreasonable...waaayy tooo much....now aobut 500 hp, thats sounds a little better, still a sh!t ton of power and you can actually use it...1500?...how much boost would that be?...probably around 30lbs?...dont get me wrong, yes it would be awesome to roll around having 1500hp or even close to that...but in a logical sense, i dont see the use to that unless it was a race car and you got ballsy and decided to take it around the block or something...

Reasonable or not all depends on what you use it for and what class you race in. If you are not all the way on the throttle then a 1500 hp car can be pretty tame, especially if that is a turbo car.

 

[cammerfe]

Turbo Possibilities

I find an adjustable waste gate to be overwhelmingly necessary in any turbo car I've ever had. (My current LS will be my fourth turbo'd daily driver.) Even with the mildest of them, 5-6 pounds is enough on a daily basis.

On another note, it would take, based on some quick calculations, about 60 pounds of boost to get to 1500 HP with a 4 litre four cam Jag V-8. But it's do-able, and although you would probably only use it for a serious race situation, 'It's better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it'. This applies as much to the power under your foot as to the gun in your pocket.

Friend Ben has a dual turbo'd Factory Five Type 65 Coupe (Cobra Daytona). The powerplant is a SOHC FE engine, all aluminium, with components by Jim Dove in Ohio. By calculation the engine makes about 3300 HP 'dialed-up'---his dyno won't go that far. He normally drives it 'dialed-down' to only a little over 1000 HP or so. He doesn't drive the car at all if it looks like rain. Dialed-up a little, you literally can't get your head off the headrest when he puts his foot down a little while going 100 MPH. You must have an educated foot to drive it at all.

 

[ILLS]

I find an adjustable waste gate to be overwhelmingly necessary in any turbo car I've ever had. (My current LS will be my fourth turbo'd daily driver.) Even with the mildest of them, 5-6 pounds is enough on a daily basis.

By adjustable I assume you mean a boost controller...



I would hope anyone throwing a turbo into a car for an aftermarket application would run an external WG and not some of the cheapo internal ones.

 

[thethirdeye88]

Reasonable or not all depends on what you use it for and what class you race in. If you are not all the way on the throttle then a 1500 hp car can be pretty tame, especially if that is a turbo car.

understood and i side with you...but if you really had 1500hp under your foot, would you really putt around?

 

[thethirdeye88]

Reasonable or not all depends on what you use it for and what class you race in. If you are not all the way on the throttle then a 1500 hp car can be pretty tame, especially if that is a turbo car.

understood and i side with you...but if you really had 1500hp under your foot would you putt around with it?...but other than drag racing or a top speed run where else could all that power be beneficial?

 

[cammerfe]

'Wastegate'

You're right. What I mean is, 'boost-referenced'. This sort works just as the fuel pressure regulator to be seen in the picture in my thread in the HP section. An adjustable, controlled 'leak' alters what the wastegate diaphragm sees.

<edit> Someone here mentioned the 'wonderful-ness' of a Viper. One reason to have as much 'horse-pressure' as you want is to be able to confound such vehicles. I am a firm believer in 'sleepers'. My little Four-door is easy to miss---until I pull away with celerity. KS

 

[ILLS]

understood and i side with you...but if you really had 1500hp under your foot would you putt around with it?...but other than drag racing or a top speed run where else could all that power be beneficial?

Just because a person has something does not mean they have need to use it all the time. I think what allot of us go for is a vehicle that has mild street manners do use as a normal vehicle from Monday through Friday and then also be able to cruise it up to the track and make a few passes with it. With modern technology you can easily have your cake and eat it too. Get pretty decent gas mileage, good drivability and idling, and huge power. The only sacrifice is money, but you pay to play.

 

[ILLS]

You're right. What I mean is, 'boost-referenced'. This sort works just as the fuel pressure regulator to be seen in the picture in my thread in the HP section. An adjustable, controlled 'leak' alters what the wastegate diaphragm sees.

<edit> Someone here mentioned the 'wonderful-ness' of a Viper. One reason to have as much 'horse-pressure' as you want is to be able to confound such vehicles. I am a firm believer in 'sleepers'. My little Four-door is easy to miss---until I pull away with celerity. KS

You are slightly mistaken in your explanation of how that wastegate operates. All wastegate's are boost referenced unless you want to max out the turbo to its full boost and airflow ability. Not likely in a gasoline performance car situation though I could see that taking place in a diesel generator application. The bottom of the wastegate diaphram see's full unaltered boost pressure. That boost pressure helps push the diaphragm against a pressure rated spring which collapses at its rated boost pressure which then opens the WG exhaust valve and bleeds excess exhaust to the atmosphere which then slows the turbine and thus drops boost a little too. Then the WG exhaust valve closes and the cycle starts all over again. There is no leak that alters what the WG diaphragm see's.

Now with a boost controller you tee off the boost line running from the compressor side of the turbo to the WG lower port and run a line through an adjustable bleed valve. However, this bleed valve does not leak boost. It instead routes whatever amount of boost you want into the TOP of the WG. This boost now tries to counteract the boost pushing on the bottom of the WG diaphragm. Say that you have a 3.63 psi spring in the WG and have the boost controller adjusted to that it allows 2 psi to bleed past its valve and into the top of the WG. Now instead of only taking 3.63 psi of boost to open the WG and bleed exhaust it will take 5.63 psi to do that. Once again though, there is no leak and the diaphragm still see's the same amount of boost in its lower port it just ALSO see's some boost pressure in its top port too. I have seen some Diesel applications use a bleeder valve going to the lower port on the WG but I do not consider that acceptable in an aftermarket gasoline application as the WG is not seeing the actual boost being made and may tend to operate slightly erratic. WG response is also slowed by doing this also.

You probably already knew this but the way you explained it made it sound like boost was leaking to atmosphere which is just not the case whether you are controlling boost with just the WG spring or with the addition of a boost controller too.

 

[bufordtpisser]

I have had a few sleepers in my day also................

You're right. What I mean is, 'boost-referenced'. This sort works just as the fuel pressure regulator to be seen in the picture in my thread in the HP section. An adjustable, controlled 'leak' alters what the wastegate diaphragm sees.

<edit> Someone here mentioned the 'wonderful-ness' of a Viper. One reason to have as much 'horse-pressure' as you want is to be able to confound such vehicles. I am a firm believer in 'sleepers'. My little Four-door is easy to miss---until I pull away with celerity. KS

mostly 4 door grandma cars with big motors. But most people in this day and age are smart enough to realize that if you pull next to them in their Viper with you in your LS and ask for a race, that you are either a fool, or you have something. And I don't know about you or some of the others here, but I know what horsepower sounds like. Don't get me wrong, I have been fooled once or twice in my life by a car that I underestimated, but I was still able to determine that I was not running a stock car long before the race began. And you still have to admit that a fast LS, fast enough to take a Corvette or a Viper is a rare beast.

 

[cammerfe]

You are slightly mistaken in your explanation of how that wastegate operates. All wastegate's are boost referenced unless you want to max out the turbo to its full boost and airflow ability. Not likely in a gasoline performance car situation though I could see that taking place in a diesel generator application. The bottom of the wastegate diaphram see's full unaltered boost pressure. That boost pressure helps push the diaphragm against a pressure rated spring which collapses at its rated boost pressure which then opens the WG exhaust valve and bleeds excess exhaust to the atmosphere which then slows the turbine and thus drops boost a little too. Then the WG exhaust valve closes and the cycle starts all over again. There is no leak that alters what the WG diaphragm see's.

Now with a boost controller you tee off the boost line running from the compressor side of the turbo to the WG lower port and run a line through an adjustable bleed valve. However, this bleed valve does not leak boost. It instead routes whatever amount of boost you want into the TOP of the WG. This boost now tries to counteract the boost pushing on the bottom of the WG diaphragm. Say that you have a 3.63 psi spring in the WG and have the boost controller adjusted to that it allows 2 psi to bleed past its valve and into the top of the WG. Now instead of only taking 3.63 psi of boost to open the WG and bleed exhaust it will take 5.63 psi to do that. Once again though, there is no leak and the diaphragm still see's the same amount of boost in its lower port it just ALSO see's some boost pressure in its top port too. I have seen some Diesel applications use a bleeder valve going to the lower port on the WG but I do not consider that acceptable in an aftermarket gasoline application as the WG is not seeing the actual boost being made and may tend to operate slightly erratic. WG response is also slowed by doing this also.

You probably already knew this but the way you explained it made it sound like boost was leaking to atmosphere which is just not the case whether you are controlling boost with just the WG spring or with the addition of a boost controller too.

Yours is the best explanation. It 'leaks' from one side of the diaphragm to the other.
KS

 

[cammerfe]

Sleeper

mostly 4 door grandma cars with big motors. But most people in this day and age are smart enough to realize that if you pull next to them in their Viper with you in your LS and ask for a race, that you are either a fool, or you have something. And I don't know about you or some of the others here, but I know what horsepower sounds like. Don't get me wrong, I have been fooled once or twice in my life by a car that I underestimated, but I was still able to determine that I was not running a stock car long before the race began. And you still have to admit that a fast LS, fast enough to take a Corvette or a Viper is a rare beast.

The wonder of a turbo'd or sprayed engine is that it is so docile when not 'boosted'. I don't go looking for trouble, but my experience is that when 'catching a light' with a supposedly racy vehicle, the driver expects, when the light turns, to be far ahead of the pack. The confrontation comes when he finds out that the four-door sedan is still right alongside. There's nothing about the way my engine idles to be a warning. And visual clues are limited unless the other driver notices the roll cage or the gauge/control panel.
KS

 

[ILLS]

The wonder of a turbo'd or sprayed engine is that it is so docile when not 'boosted'. I don't go looking for trouble, but my experience is that when 'catching a light' with a supposedly racy vehicle, the driver expects, when the light turns, to be far ahead of the pack. The confrontation comes when he finds out that the four-door sedan is still right alongside. There's nothing about the way my engine idles to be a warning. And visual clues are limited unless the other driver notices the roll cage or the gauge/control panel.
KS

With the common use of FI nowadays you usually don't hear the horsepower until it is too late. The only real dead giveaways are a lumpy cam or a centrifugal s/c. Both of those are quite loud at idle and part throttle.

 

[thethirdeye88]

Just because a person has something does not mean they have need to use it all the time. I think what allot of us go for is a vehicle that has mild street manners do use as a normal vehicle from Monday through Friday and then also be able to cruise it up to the track and make a few passes with it. With modern technology you can easily have your cake and eat it too. Get pretty decent gas mileage, good drivability and idling, and huge power. The only sacrifice is money, but you pay to play.

true...but i was looking at it like riding around in a car that puts down 1500hp 7 days out of the week...a daily driver...a friend of mine has got an '02 cobra...its mean, but he doesnt drive it all the time...having a beast for the fun of the weekend is understandable...not driving it all the time...and yes technology is wonderful...remember the ridiculous old school hot rods of the 60's and early 70's?...when they came factory with big blocks and 500hp?...but yet had absolutely no brakes or suspension...but yet, you are very correct in saying you have to pay to play...but thats what its all about isnt it?...