I have been wondering this same thing myself but was sure I would be crucified for making a thread about it since I probably didn't search long enough.. I can't believe there is no jumper stud anywhere in the engine compartment.
Under Hood Jump Start ?
- Thread starter medphys
- Start date
msgtusmc
Dedicated LVC Member
PMJJ you have removed all doubt about your level of intelligents with your negative statement about joegr. I was in Gulfport, MS recently visiting my brother & had lunch with joegr. His contributions of accurate information to the LS owners on this forum speaks for its self. The uninformed & uneducated strike out against the knowledgeable in frustration. JMHO.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Ford left the jump stud wiring on the same shelf they left the trans dipstick on.
Shouldn't be too hard to add one on though. Joe said he has a car that has a remote stud, which I assume would have the protective cap and all needed to keep it from being a potential battery short, so if we knew the year make and model those parts could be ordered for that car and installed on the LS. If the wiring on the car won't reach, any welding shop sells welding cable and lugs that would do the job. Welding cable is designed to survive in environments far harsher than what's found under a car hood. I've been using welding cable as replacement battery cable for about 10 years now, and it works well.
RigsLS
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Messages
- 7,756
- Reaction score
- 533
It's unfortunate, however I am not uninformed or uneducated, nor strike out against the knowledgeable in frustration!
... and I trust that statement was not directly intended for myself.
We all have differences in beliefs, some right , some wrong, some somewhere in between.
As I had mentioned and attempted to explain, the auxiliary post inside the wheel well can be used.
Not the most convenient location but popping the hood reveals it's the next best option.
The wiring diagram I posted clearly shows the starter Motor feeds directly from it.
If one should park into a parking spot with the nose of the LS sticking out and needed a boost/jump-start from
another car, you would need extra long cables to make it to the trunk of the LS, with the two cars involved
pointing nose first at each other, the auxiliary post in the passenger side wheel well of the LS becomes a plausible option.
It certainly beats attempting to stick a charged screwdriver into the front fuse box to back-feed which is only asking for even more troubles.
One could also clamp two sets of jumper cables together to span the length of the LS and reach the trunk, however, this posses other dangers.
Lastly, I can clearly read the above as no immediate insult towards joegr or others from myself.
I merely stated to "agree to disagree" and it would appear I have a difference of opinion.
... and I trust that statement was not directly intended for myself.
We all have differences in beliefs, some right , some wrong, some somewhere in between.
As I had mentioned and attempted to explain, the auxiliary post inside the wheel well can be used.
Not the most convenient location but popping the hood reveals it's the next best option.
The wiring diagram I posted clearly shows the starter Motor feeds directly from it.
If one should park into a parking spot with the nose of the LS sticking out and needed a boost/jump-start from
another car, you would need extra long cables to make it to the trunk of the LS, with the two cars involved
pointing nose first at each other, the auxiliary post in the passenger side wheel well of the LS becomes a plausible option.
It certainly beats attempting to stick a charged screwdriver into the front fuse box to back-feed which is only asking for even more troubles.
One could also clamp two sets of jumper cables together to span the length of the LS and reach the trunk, however, this posses other dangers.
Lastly, I can clearly read the above as no immediate insult towards joegr or others from myself.
I merely stated to "agree to disagree" and it would appear I have a difference of opinion.
oddball
Dedicated LVC Member
The hotrod shops sell universal jump studs and mounting brackets. I relocated the battery to the trunk on my cutlass and added the jump studs back there.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
So, I am curious about the thought that an under hood jump point is needed.
Cars go in forward and reverse. People sometimes pull forward into a parking spot, and they sometimes reverse in. There are a whole lot of cars with the battery under the hood. I have never seen a car with the battery under the hood that had a jump point in the trunk. It seems like if they can always get to the battery under the hood, we could always get to the battery in the trunk.
The one difference would be that you might have stuff in the way in the trunk. Suck it up and take the bodies out and then put them back after the jump.
I have seen cars that have the battery under the rear seat. I do agree that an under hood jump point on those does have utility.
Anyway, BMW parts are really low cost as long as they don't have the BMW logo on them. I can get you the part number for a jump point if you really want it.
Cars go in forward and reverse. People sometimes pull forward into a parking spot, and they sometimes reverse in. There are a whole lot of cars with the battery under the hood. I have never seen a car with the battery under the hood that had a jump point in the trunk. It seems like if they can always get to the battery under the hood, we could always get to the battery in the trunk.
The one difference would be that you might have stuff in the way in the trunk. Suck it up and take the bodies out and then put them back after the jump.
I have seen cars that have the battery under the rear seat. I do agree that an under hood jump point on those does have utility.
Anyway, BMW parts are really low cost as long as they don't have the BMW logo on them. I can get you the part number for a jump point if you really want it.
There was no room for the dipstick when the engine is loaded from the bottom.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Yeah, I know the why, doesn't mean I like it.
It wouldn't have hurt to add 100 bucks to the price of the car, then design it so one could be installed after the powertrain assembly was loaded in. As sensitive as auto transmissions are to fluid levels I would consider a dipstick to be one of the more important things to have.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
you can also hook a battery charger up to the cig socket to recharge the battery but thats not how the system way designed. a cars "jump point" is where the engineers decided to design it in to, which just happens to be right at the battery in our cars. by your logic, your saying that any of the many other power junctions (which are also at all three fuse boxes and usually easier to get at) should be used as the jump point. hooking a jumper cable up to a spot that it was not designed for could cause it to come into contact with other grounded metal and cause cause thousands of dollars in damage, and the amount of damage could double if being jumped from another car)
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
i would have to agree that there is no reason to have an extra cost of having an under hood jump point. at the end of the day, you need to have a key to get in to either the hood or the trunk, and since i keep my jumper cables in the trunk instead of under the hood, that makes it ten times more convenient.
seeing how most people pull in to parking spaces instead of backing in, having it at the rear of the car is more usefull than at the front for when people need it the most.
seeing how most people pull in to parking spaces instead of backing in, having it at the rear of the car is more usefull than at the front for when people need it the most.
medphys
Active LVC Member
Your observation and researched opinion is a noble product of this discussion and I believe valuable. "Good to Know" category. Which is exactly the kind of information I value. Not officially a jump point but a Plan B and Options are what America is all about. Nobody's right or wrong we are all just more enlightened, Right?
Yeah, I know the why, doesn't mean I like it.
There was a thread here somewhere where a dipstick could be added. I figure a flush every 45-50 thousand miles will take care of the fluid level.
RigsLS
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Messages
- 7,756
- Reaction score
- 533
No, I did not say that ... but nice attempt of you for making it look like I did.
I specifically posted a wiring diagram clearly indicating that with heavy gauge wiring from the battery it passes through the Auxiliary Post onto the Starter Motor.
I provided examples of other possibilities I would not attempt.
Fuse box was one of those examples.
You read wrong in this case.
in the passenger side wheel well, against the firewall - there is a positive jump point.
source: http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?p=442524#post442524
// END
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
you called a power junction a jump point, I'm merely saying that is as good(or not as good) of a jump point as any other heavy gauge power junction.
well if that junction was a good place to jump a car from, what makes the feed wire from the fuse boxs a bad ideal?
purevilpleasure
Dedicated LVC Member
My wife's dodge stratus has the battery up in the wheel well on the drivers side. You can't see it and it has a jumpstart point under the hood.
To be honest I've never thought about the LS not having one. But it's good to know so if it comes up I can kill anyone who attempts it.
I bought a jumper back about 3 years back. I live in the country with a woman and 2 young step boys, trust me it's been a life saver more times then I can count. I just hook the dang thing up and start and go.
To be honest I've never thought about the LS not having one. But it's good to know so if it comes up I can kill anyone who attempts it.
I bought a jumper back about 3 years back. I live in the country with a woman and 2 young step boys, trust me it's been a life saver more times then I can count. I just hook the dang thing up and start and go.
oddball
Dedicated LVC Member
I think it's a safety/reliability issue. Most jumper cables are of horrendously small gauge, and most folks don't do the proper procedure for a jump. So taking the ~12' of main wire from the trunk to the starter out of the circuit should improve chances of the starter being able to work. And of course, there's the "what the heck? Where's the battery? I guess this car can't be jump started!"...
1loud: those cig lighter "chargers" always make me wonder. The wiring for that socket is about 18ga. I guess as long as someone has a few hours to wait. Makes sense for the solar panel trickle chargers (not that they make any sense in general), but otherwise seems a questionable idea.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
as long as your not charging any more than the 10 amps or so its fused at, there is no worries (slow/trickle charge) anything more than that and you will blow the fuse (no jump starting)
thats why its even more important to connect right to the battery itself. this is why so many people have trouble jump starting an LS. if you actually want to "jump" your car, you need to have very good think gauge wire to support the hundreds of amps needed. with thinner crappy cables, you will need to let it sit for a minute and charge the dead battery back up a little bit so that it can help supply a little power to help start the car.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
the guys that designed this car were not idiots or rookies, a lot more thought went into every little detail including even the things that we think are "missing"
as for the dip stick in the trans, what is that really needed for? unless you leaking trans fluid, its not going to go anywhere. if your leaking, the fix is not to keep checking fluid level and adding some when needed, the fix is to find the leak and actually repair it. then fill the trans up by following the procedure.
if your really worried about checking the level, there shouldn't be a problem in following the proper procedure. after all, 99% of the people buying these cars new from the dealer would probably never open the hood on the car themselves, the dealers or other qualified shops will.
as for the dip stick in the trans, what is that really needed for? unless you leaking trans fluid, its not going to go anywhere. if your leaking, the fix is not to keep checking fluid level and adding some when needed, the fix is to find the leak and actually repair it. then fill the trans up by following the procedure.
if your really worried about checking the level, there shouldn't be a problem in following the proper procedure. after all, 99% of the people buying these cars new from the dealer would probably never open the hood on the car themselves, the dealers or other qualified shops will.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Designers are one thing, bean counters are quite another. A lot of the stupid stuff you see on cars, like stuff left off that belongs, can be attributed to bean counters saying no. Material quality, part size, even stupid crap like plastic junctions on hoses can be attributed to bean counters. And if these engineers are so great, explain the degas bottle. One microcrack and suddenly the engine's overheats.
Saving weight required the use of plastics. The reason the sub enclosure was dropped was to save enough weight to eek out that .XXX MPG to avoid the gas-guzzler tax. Same with the 2nd gear SST start. The window regulator issue was the supplier cheapening out on a part, not the design (BMW had been using the same design for years!). Most of the plastic part failures were/are attributed to the supplier. Funny how Ford's degas bottle is of higher quality than the aftermarket units.
You should really have had the opportunity to talk to the engineers. It was quite an eye-opener!
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Nah, we're just going to have to disagree on this. There should have been a dipstick. The engineers should have pushed harder for it with the beancounters because it could have been added after the fact. And, GM uses a pressurized reservoir as well, and a crack in the plastic won't blow the engine up unless you ignore it. Considering the entire run of cars has the degas problem, how could they have missed the problem in testing the parts and not dealt with it?
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
because with most issues like that, they dont start showing up until you get some serious long term testing done such as having a couple hundred thousand on the road for years
why is it so necessary to have a dipstick on the trans again? I cant recall the last time i saw a transmission problem here because somebody wasn't checking it regularly.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
They do long term tests on these cars before they put them on the road.
A trans dipstick is used to check the level AND condition of the fluid, which tells you how the trans is doing. If you don't get why a dipstick is necessary, can't help you.
A trans dipstick is used to check the level AND condition of the fluid, which tells you how the trans is doing. If you don't get why a dipstick is necessary, can't help you.