Timing chain caught up to me

[FDR]

Well, at 71,200 miles, the secondary timing chain tensioners have finally [audibly] given out. It started on the highway with a rattle at 3,000rpm and 4,000. I parked at work, taking it very, very easy keeping it under 2,000. I started the car to leave, got under the hood to see where the sound was coming from, pulled the throttle up to 2500, and it sounded like a gatling gun firing marbles at the covers. I tried driving home and it then started happening at 1500, which is when I decided to get a tow, since it would even happen at idle. The car runs "fine" though, so the chain didn't jump. I drove maybe 10 miles and 15-20 minutes from the first time I heard the sound. I have to say, the flatbed showed up in record time. Less than 10 minutes after calling AAA. Last time I waited 1.5 hours.

If you happened to see my car on the flatbed traveling the opposite direction on 287/440 while driving an Autumn red Gen 1, possibly with a Wings West bumper piece, it was me.



But damn, I'm kicking myself for not doing the tensioners when I did the valve cover gaskets a year and 8,000 miles ago. I was a bit naive, a bit impatient, and a bit hotheaded and wanted the car on the road.

If it sounds like a belt of marbles slapping the valve cover, it's probably your tensioner. If it happens, pull over and turn it off. It will deteriorate quickly. If you do your VCGs, do the damn tensioners.

Now, my questions.

>What else should I replace while I'm in there? FelPro VCGs with 8k/1year on them? Anything with the cooling that's easier with the VCs off? I also have an intermittent squeak I'm guessing is the idler pulley. Just get it out of the way?

>Will I need new chains? Or is it just that easy that I should really just do it for the ~$100?

>Any better deals from reliable brands/sellers? eBay/Tasca
Right tensioner
Left tensioner

>Chains: What the heck is the difference between this one for $30 and this one for $70 shipped??? Only part number difference is the first four characters, xw4z vs 2x9z. Will I need chains with the separated master link?

 

[FDR]

Open link version not from Tasca

 

[FDR]

And I just noticed some other tensioners come with bolts, while Tascas do not. Big deal?

 

[joegr]

From what I hear, this is the place to get all of it from: http://www.christophersforeigncarparts.com/lincoln/
(or from his e-bay store, like the chain you linked to)

 

[chris2523]

yes, i used parts from Christophers. would recommend.
installed updated tensioners and new secondary chains after one secondary chain jumped.

 

[FDR]

Ordered from Chris' eBay store. What is this garbage about paying sales tax?? (same state, I know how it works, just never made a large purchase in-state before I guess lol).

Any opinions on the gaskets?

 

[RigsLS]

Frank, step by step pics, would be awesome!

 

[FDR]

I'll try. I meant to do it with th VCGs. I'll start here with the enthusiasts' edition:

Step 1: identify the sound of your engine eating marbles

Step 2: pull over immediately

Step 3 (optional): open hood, and gently pull the throttle lever to reach the RPM that makes the noise (if it is still only intermittent)

Step 4: locate source of sound as a bicycle chain rapidly being pulled over the front of your valve covers

Step 5: cry a little on the inside

Step 6(optional): cry a little on the outside

Step 7: call a flatbed

Step 8: open wallet

 

[RigsLS]

Yup!
I have that little tick under load which makes me cry every time,
hoping it's a noisy injector but am preparing to do secondary and chains on it, either that or sell it and shop 370Z.

 

[FDR]

PROBLEM (please don't quote this entire post; crop the text down)

I pulled the driver side cover and... the tensioner is aluminum with red plastic slides (as opposed to either a red plastic body with red slides or aluminum body with white plastic slides). I started with the driver side to get the hard one out of the way. When I revved it, it sounded like the passenger side, but I didn't spend much time at all pinpointing it so as not to risk jumping time. But now I'm worried I misdiagnosed it... I have no idea what else it could be though. I'm going back out to take the passenger cover off once I post this.

Driver side tensioner


Old picture of passenger side tensioner (sort of)

View attachment 828471027

To add to the misery, what the hell is this white stuff? It was in the driver side cylinder, closest to the firewall. Leaking water residue? There is evidence of water underneath the cowl, but the coil boot sealed the well with a pop. It wasn't there two months ago when I pulled the plugs and gapped them...



Crusty well



Clean sparkplug well



To further upset me, I lost a 1/4 drive ratchet for a while. You know it's bad when you drop it and it slow falls through the bay without hitting the ground. I had to bust out the boroscope. Here you can see some of the head with the drive square facing the camera



See it down there? The little white spec from the scope's lights? Center of the picture

 

[FDR]

I pulled the passenger side and same deal. Aluminum body, red slides, nothing seems loose. I'm shutting down for tonight to go salvage the last couple of hours tonight with something more fun than this disappointment.

Is it worth replacing the tensioners and chains? Or should I just return them for the $250+. I assume all I can do now is reassemble and try to take a video tomorrow hopefully...

 

[Telco]

Change your oil, see if there's any metal in it. Shine a light on it and look for glitter. If there's no metal in it, it's up to you on whether you replace them or not but if nothing is loose there's no use in replacing anything. I think I would go ahead and replace them though, considering you just now said that you regret not changing them when you had it all apart before. 250 bucks, not much money for peace of mind.

When it's all back together, see if it still rattles. If it does, remove the serpentine belt and see if it still rattles. I have had an alternator crap out once, sounded similar to your symptoms. That alternator spewed ball bearings all over my garage. Once the alternator bearing go, it doesn't take long between noise and failure. When the alt did fail it put enough resistance on the engine to shut it down. And that was a real brown pants moment, because when it happened I was doing the initial startup on a new engine in my wife's old mail delivery S10 Blazer.

 

[elephantrider]

the white stuff is electric grease.

 

[joegr]

the white stuff is electric grease.

Not impossible, but I disagree. It looks like the typical result of water getting into the well. It's harder than you might think to seal it out. When the engine heats up, air pressure in the well builds and it forces it way out around the seal of the boot. When the engine cools back down, and vacuum forms in the well and it will suck some air or water (whichever is outside the well) back in.

Alternately, if that's dielectric grease, it was cooked by aching between the boot and the well, indicating a bad boot and probably a bad plug.

 

[elephantrider]

right - i wasnt saying it was fresh grease by any means, but i've seen it look like that over time.

may not be, either..

 

[FDR]

I did the Accel installation and ran a year with no grease, then a month or two ago applied black caliper grease to help the boots slide and to help seal it. I noticed on second look that the passenger rear well had a slight amount of white crusty stuff.

The boot shows no obvious signs of damage, but iill inspect iit again. The engine didn't experience any of the symptoms I had when my coils were bad.

Telco, I began wondering about something on the serpentine belt as well. I'll have to look into that

 

[FDR]

Change your oil, see if there's any metal in it. Shine a light on it and look for glitter. If there's no metal in it, it's up to you on whether you replace them or not but if nothing is loose there's no use in replacing anything.

What's the relationship between shavings and the tensioners?

 

[Telco]

What's the relationship between shavings and the tensioners?

There isn't necessarily a connection. You said the tensioners appear fine, but you also said

But damn, I'm kicking myself for not doing the tensioners when I did the valve cover gaskets a year and 8,000 miles ago.

so I suggested that you might want to go ahead and change them for your own peace of mind if nothing else.

Further, you said

... and it sounded like a gatling gun firing marbles at the covers. ...

which means you've not located the problem. Checking the engine oil for metal flakes before putting everything back together would tell you if you have a problem requiring a deeper check or if you can disregard the engine internals as being the problem.

If something is beating on the inside of your engine hard enough to remind you of a Gatling gun, it's not going to do so for long without putting something in the engine oil. Based on what's been posted I doubt it's going to be an internal engine problem but it's still worth inspecting the engine oil because you never know what the problem is until you actually find something broken.

 

[FDR]

Got it. As far as the gatling gun reference, I was way more worried about jumping time than locating the sound because my experience here over the last year said there's a great probability of being the tensioners. At this point I'm guessing I had factory aluminum, but I have very few service records of the car so I'd never know for sure.

I was kicking myself under the assumption I had plastic. No one has reported aluminum failures. Then again, I suppose I might be a candidate for first considering the age. I guess I'll just do them. How do I remove the old chain without removing the main chain? Cut it?

 

[FDR]

I'm not changing out the tensioners... too difficult. I thought I'd be able to tilt them out from the chain but it appears there's not nearly enough slack to tilt them at all. The main chain guides and upper main sprockets don't move, either.

I tried wiggling all the serpentine pulleys, but nothing seemed to show obvious looseness.

Reassembling...

 

[chris2523]

i unbolted the exhaust cam and lifted it up to remove and replace the tensioners.

 

[FDR]

It's assembled now. Old tensioners. I'll post a bunch of pics tomorrow showing how to get at all the bolts with just a u-joint, normal 10mm socket, and deep 10mm socket.

All that's left is to gap the passenger spark plugs, install all the coils, and reconnect all the intake tube hoses and plugs. I forgot to mention, there were no signs of the chains hitting the valve covers. No scrape marks. I'll update tomorrow after work

 

[FDR]

Assembled. Started. Took video. Made noise. You may as well ignore me pointing to where the sound came from because I couldn't actually pinpoint it as I moved around

[video]https://youtu.be/wCs-sAEyTEg[/video]

[video]https://youtu.be/r15IKa63yvo[/video]

 

[FDR]

Detonation/pinging? But I drove almost a whole tank full without noticing it. I'm down to 1/8th tank or less now. That could explain why it got worse as I drove, but now it's not happening until higher RPM (I estimate 2000RPM; I was under the hood the whole time). I've only heard what I know know is detonation in a much less rythmic pattern. I've had this car stall before and get a couple last detonations that sounded like Eleanor stalling, minus the "awesome V8" part of the sound (sorry it's in Spanish)

[video=youtube;QS-PZ40fleg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS-PZ40fleg[/video]

 

[Telco]

Check your flexplate. I had one crack out once about 30 years ago, sounded kinda like that as I recall. The more it cracked, the lower the RPM was that it would make noise. You will want to check both around the flexplate to torque converter connection and at the flexplate to crank connection. Also had a bad torque converter that had sort of an engine knock sound. Lastly, had a Chevy 400 small block snap the crank snout off last year, but it was between the front piston throws and the balancer. That one was pretty obvious as when the engine was running the balancer was vibrating wildly.

The only engine related thing I can think that might be causing that, if you're not finding any actual failure, would be a silent failure (no codes set) on the knock sensor. A knock sensor that is no longer reporting correctly would not let the PCM know that timing has gone too far and it won't retard timing when knock is detected.