Starting issue back again

[jarrett88]

So I have a 2002 Lincoln LS with the v8, which i just got a little over a month ago, shortly after I got it, it developed a starting issue. So I took it to a shop and they diagnosed it as a fuel pump, so we switched the pump and the filter(filter poured out what looked like cloggy poop water). This all fixed the problem. but then it started again. What will happen is it struggles to start, usually when its been off for a few hours, however will always start. What might it be, someone told me to go get the ignition coils checked, however when I talked to Lincoln/Ford Dealership they said that it would not affect the start, however looking deeper into it I found out a severely damaged coil could cause that. But wouldnt a bad coil cause a check engine light? For that matter anything not fuel related wouldnt a check engine light come on? Is it possible that it could be a regulator or a defective pump? Or plugs or even ignition coil? Also I remember in my old car (Passat 99) The fuel filter messed up and caused running prroblems, not sure when filter was done could that be causing it? Or does anyone think the other left pump needs to be done and how can I figure out if it does?

 

[jarrett88]

Also whats the chance there was left over deposits left over that maybe a seafoam could take care of

 

[chris2523]

But wouldnt a bad coil cause a check engine light?

not necessarily, no.
you probably need new coils. every LS does sooner or later. change your spark plugs at the same time.

the dirty fuel means new filter time.

the car only has one electrical pump. the other pump moves the fuel from one side of the saddle tank to the other. doesn't seem to wear out as often.

 

[jarrett88]

not necessarily, no.
you probably need new coils. every LS does sooner or later. change your spark plugs at the same time.

the dirty fuel means new filter time.

the car only has one electrical pump. the other pump moves the fuel from one side of the saddle tank to the other. doesn't seem to wear out as often.

Is there any way to figure out which coils are bad? And we did the fuel filter, it was disgusting!

 

[Hawk03]

Is there any way to figure out which coils are bad? And we did the fuel filter, it was disgusting!

Replace them all at one time, its easier and once one goes, they all go. Have you checked your fuel pressure or fuel injectors? Is is possible your dirty fuel gunked up your injectors? There is an issue with some engines having leaky injectors as well.

 

[joegr]

Is there any way to figure out which coils are bad? And we did the fuel filter, it was disgusting!

It's cheaper to replace them all (coils and plugs) than it is to pay for the correct stress testing to really find the marginal ones.

A cheap and simple fuel pressure test should allow you to determine if there are any fuel supply problems. There is a filter in the jet pump assembly, if it clogs it will also cause fuel problems.

Lastly, you are using 91 to 94 octane gasoline, right? If you are using less, it could cause hard starting as well as carbon buildup. (Using less than 91 does not save you any money due to the decrease in gas mileage anyway.)

 

[TooManyToys]

I'll go back to the tank issue. Was the tank cleaned? What was in the filter doesn't mean that was everything in the tank. You could keep clogging filters until all the garbage is out of the tank. It may actually be cheaper to just keep replacing filters until the tank is clean, but you need to get quotes on that.

At the least I would change the filter again and see if it caught anything new.

 

[jarrett88]

@Hawk03, where and how can I locate the fuel injector on the the 02 v8, and how can I check to see if it is clogged?

And wouldnt I have some other side effects with a bad coil other than a hard start.

@Joegr, Okay, yea with how bad my fuel filter was, I kinda had a feeling that I could eventually have an issue with the jet pump as well, and yes I am using premium gas. Similar to the first time this happened, it was a few starts after I got gas, not sure if that means anything though.

 

[jarrett88]

I'll go back to the tank issue. Was the tank cleaned? What was in the filter doesn't mean that was everything in the tank. You could keep clogging filters until all the garbage is out of the tank. It may actually be cheaper to just keep replacing filters until the tank is clean, but you need to get quotes on that.

At the least I would change the filter again and see if it caught anything new.

Actually thats the same thing my dad just told me. How much does that usually run to get cleaned, or is there an additive I can use for this.

 

[joegr]

Since the fuel tank on the LS can be accessed without removing it, it may not cost too much to get the tank vacuumed out. This would require the removal of both fuel pump assemblies, so you might replace or rebuild the jet pump at that time. Still, I'd check fuel pressure while trying to start it before I went too far in this direction.

Marginal coils might not leave you with any other symptoms that you would realize. I can certainly verify that you can have marginal coils that do not turn the check engine light on.

Your LS has eight fuel injectors. They are on top of the engine and not too hard to find between the fuel rails and the intake manifold.

 

[TooManyToys]

We took care of one diesel tank that had to be hand wiped in order to get all of the goop out of it. This was after dumping the original fuel and rinsing twice with fresh diesel.

 

[pektel]

Not too hard to check fuel pressure at the rail to see if there is sufficient pressure past the filter. A simple check, and a relatively inexpensive tool (although I just borrow one from my mechanic when I need it). It's just a fuel pressure guage, and screws right onto the schraeder valve on the fuel rail.

A fuel filter is also a cheap and easy fix. 15 bucks, and 20 minutes. To check for leaky injectors, I've seen people remove the "stuff in the way" (mostly vacuum lines) leave all the injectors connected to the rail, and flip it upside down. Turn the key to the on position (but don't try to start it) and watch. Turning the key to the on position gets pressure to the rail/injectors. A leaky injector should show itself.

As far as gunk still in the tank... could be. Though when I changed my fuel pump a year or so ago, my tank was clean as a whistle at over 160K miles. I suppose it would depend on the filling station used, and the condition of their tanks?

 

[jarrett88]

Update: So today my car started up fine every single time, I was super surprised by this this morning, because first start of the day was notoriously the one that wouldn't have any issues the first time. Drove about 40 miles today, so I burned off roughly 2 gallons of gas, kinda wondering if maybe there was just some gunk in the lines that worked through by burning through the fuel or stuff that might have been causing the hard start, mainly cause the starts that were bad I only drove approximately five miles total. Any thoughts from anyone? and should I still check everything? I was still planning on checking fuel pressures tomorrow, as well as my filter, injector and connections.