So, WHO here is burning a Koran this Sat?

[JohnnyBz00LS]

It would be interesting to see who really support our troops and who'd like to see them harmed.

General Petraeus: Burn a Quran Day Could 'Endanger Troops'
'Burn a Quran Day' Sparks Protests in Afghanistan

By MARTHA RADDATZ
KABUL, Afghanistan, Sept. 7, 2010

A Florida pastor's plan to burn Qurans at his church on Sept. 11 ignited protests for a second day by hundreds of Afghans, who burned U.S. flags and shouted "Death to America," prompting the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan to say that the pastor could be increasing the threat to his troops.

The crowd in downtown Kabul reached nearly 500 Monday, with Afghan protesters chanting "Long live Islam" and "Long live the Quran," and burning an effigy of Terry Jones, senior pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, who is planning the event.

The protesters were well aware of the pastor's inflammatory comments, such as "Islam is an evil religion," because they have spread via the Internet. Jones has also authored a book, "Islam Is of the Devil."

An effigy of Jones was set ablaze.

"America cannot eliminate Muslims from the world," one Afghan man told ABC News.

The angry crowd pelted a passing U.S. military convoy with rocks.

David Petraeus said he is outraged by the pastor's decision to burn the Quran, which, he said, could "endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort here."

"It puts our soldiers in jeopardy very likely," he told ABC News Tuesday. "And I think, in fact, images from such activity could very well be used by extremists here and around the world."

Former Vice Chief of Staff of the Army Gen. Jack Keane, an adviser to Petraeus, called it "outrageous" and "insulting to Muslims."

"It's also insulting to our soldiers in terms of what they stand for and what their commitment is to this country and to the Muslims in this country," Keane told ABC News.

But Jones vowed he would go ahead with the Quran burning, even knowing the concerns of Petraeus and Keane for the safety of U.S. troops.

"Of course we care. It'd be tragical if because of this one person died. But at the same time, we do not feel responsible for that," Jones said in an interview with ABC News.

"What we are doing is long overdue," he said. "We are revealing the violence of Islam that is much, much deeper than we'd like to admit."

One Facebook page dedicated to the day, titled "International Burn A Koran Day" has more than 8,000 fans.

"On September 11th, 2010, from 6pm - 9pm, we will burn the Koran on the property of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, FL in remembrance of the fallen victims of 9/11 and to stand against the evil of Islam. Islam is of the devil!" the page declares.

For the record, I am NOT burning a Koran or any other religious book, ever. Unlike some of those here in the LvCPF, I uphold our constitutional freedom of religion, and I support our troops who are defending that freedom.

 

[Lincoln Luebbe]

One Florida Pastor (if you could really call him that) decides to burn the Koran and it makes the news and represents Christianity... The media at it's finest.

 

[Frogman]

who really support our troops and who'd like to see them harmed

.

So, if this burning doesn't happen, our troops will not be shot at, blown up and in general killed from now on in a Muslim Country? Really?

For the record, I am NOT burning a Koran or any other religious book, ever.

For the record... NOGAF.

Unlike some of those here in the LvCPF, I uphold our constitutional freedom of religion, and I support our troops who are defending that freedom.

So you support constitutional freedoms yet you're against some backwoods preacher burning a Qur'an? And don't tell me "I never said I was against it". It's obvious you are.

I hate to break it to you, but the US and Coalition troops in the Middle East are not there to defend your constitutional freedom of religion. Matter of fact, they are not there to defend ANY of your constitutional rights. No, I'm not against them being there, but let's call it what it is. It's a war against Muslim Extremists, Jihad and their ideologies. It is not the Christian Crusades. mmmk?

Yes, I know, we could say they are there to defend our constitutional rights, else we might get invaded by them peace loving Muslims. I'm speaking in general, not particulars.

Personally, I don't care whether the Qur'an gets burned or not. It is the right of that pastor to do so. The Muslims seem to be able to ban Christian churches in the Middle East (except UAE), but "we" can't burn a damned book because they might bet all sorts of pissy?

"Artists" have gotten grants to dip crucifixes in urine and call it art. Maybe the pastor needs to burn the qur'an and call it "art". I wonder if the touchy feely Liberals would complain about that.

We can legally burn a flag (in the disrespectful manner of burning it, not the proper respectful manner) in this country. And of course, people in other countries do it every time they have anti American protests. So, if we can legally burn a US Flag in the US and others can burn it abroad, why in hell should "we" not be able to burn a damned book? And why should the Muslims get their panties in a twist over it? We don't get our panties in a twist when they burn a US flag in the process of their "free speech".

I say burn 1,000 of them. Maybe then the Muslims will do something dumb and give us a reason to carpet bomb them. Who knows, we might even improve the aesthetics of their properties. Then again... This would never happen with a spineless president.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

One Florida Pastor (if you could really call him that) decides to burn the Koran and it makes the news and represents Christianity... The media at it's finest.

No Mr. strawman. Nobody is claiming he represents all Christianity except for those "christians" who agree with his sentiment. Additionally, he sought-out the media attention. But I do wish that the "event" got absolutely zero news coverage. If he wants to burn his Koran in private, so be it. If no pictures / video of the "event" made the news/net, his Islamophobic tantrum will have little effect.

 

[fossten]

The premise of Johnny's post is that there are certain members of this board who will burn the Koran this Saturday. He seeks to marginalize and paint some nebulous, unnamed people as bigots and, failing that, cowards. Notice he's keeping it vague - he doesn't dare call anybody out by name for fear of running afoul of the mods. So he keeps it generalized.

I'd love to see his evidence supporting such a wild, paranoid accusation.

Not that I care. If somebody wants to burn one, go for it.

I'm for announcing to the world that we're smearing pigs' blood on the tips of our 5.56mm cartridges loaded in our Afghan/Iraq soldiers' M16 magazines.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

So, if this burning doesn't happen, our troops will not be shot at, blown up and in general killed from now on in a Muslim Country? Really?

Twist words much? That's not what I said at all. Buring the Koran gives our enemies ANOTHER REASON to harm our troops, AND will be used as a recruiting tool to create MORE ENEMIES. Is that what you want?

So you support constitutional freedoms yet you're against some backwoods preacher burning a Qur'an? And don't tell me "I never said I was against it". It's obvious you are.

Mr. strawman, I absolutey AM against him doing this, but NOT because I don't think he shouldn't have the right to do so.

I hate to break it to you, but the US and Coalition troops in the Middle East are not there to defend your constitutional freedom of religion. Matter of fact, they are not there to defend ANY of your constitutional rights.

You better tell that to all the BuSh/Cheney administration and their lemming supporters like Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, et al because "defend those who defend our freedom" is all they've been spouting for the last 8 years. WHY the big change of heart NOW??

The Muslims seem to be able to ban Christian churches in the Middle East (except UAE), but "we" can't burn a damned book because they might bet all sorts of pissy?

NEWS FLASH: Those Muslim countries don't enjoy the same constitutional freedom of religion that we do in the USA. Wrap your mind around that concept. And again, enough w/ the strawman. Nobody has said we should limit the nutjob's right to free speech and burn the Koran. But we also have the right to call him an idiot and a traitor for putting our troops in more danger.

"Artists" have gotten grants to dip crucifixes in urine and call it art. Maybe the pastor needs to burn the qur'an and call it "art". I wonder if the touchy feely Liberals would complain about that.

Fortunately, Christians have a better sense of humor.

So, if we can legally burn a US Flag in the US and others can burn it abroad, why in hell should "we" not be able to burn a damned book? And why should the Muslims get their panties in a twist over it? We don't get our panties in a twist when they burn a US flag in the process of their "free speech".

Again w/ the strawman. Those who don't live in a free society (like US) cannot conceive why our government doesn't step in and "force" this church to not burn the Koran. Is it any wonder their panties get twisted so easily? All the more reason we need to keep church and state seperate.

 

[fossten]

Twist words much? That's not what I said at all. Buring the Koran gives our enemies ANOTHER REASON to harm our troops, AND will be used as a recruiting tool to create MORE ENEMIES. Is that what you want?

So, in addition to their current savage desire to cut off our heads, if we burn the Koran they will also call us 'poopy heads?'

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

I'd love to see his evidence supporting such a wild, paranoid accusation.

Evidence:

I say burn 1,000 of them.

What's wrong snuggle-buns, not enough spine to state your position on this? Considering the amount of Islamophobic crap you've posted over the years, I was betting you'd be the first to strike the match, sweetcheeks.

 

[fossten]

Evidence:



What's wrong snookums, not enough spine to state your position on this? Considering the amount of Islamophobic crap you've posted over the years, I was betting you'd be the first to strike the match.

Thanks for proving my point. So, your question is loaded, as if somebody says yes, they're a bigot, and if they say no, they're a coward.

Stay classy.

And your evidence doesn't prove your point. Frogman didn't say he was going to burn them, which was the specific question you asked.

FAIL.

 

[97SilverLSCcobra]

I say burn 1,000 of them. Maybe then the Muslims will do something dumb and give us a reason to carpet bomb them. Who knows, we might even improve the aesthetics of their properties. Then again... This would never happen with a spineless president.

I can pretty much guarantee one thing! If they do burn the qurans and the muslims do something stupid, all that spineless POS will do is "APOLOGIZE" for burning the quran! Just like he is apologizing to them for "all of the people we have killed over the years". Well someone needs to inform him that people die in war! Bush let them know that if they initiate war with us, we will indeed kill people, lots of them. Now that POS wants to apologize for it. He has us looking so weak and so much like push overs. I bet they sit around their computers and laugh at us now days! I say we burn a quran for every American that died in those towers, on those planes and in that WAR. The one that they initiated! Well I just wish everyone would think like this. I want to kill all of them and be done with it! Have a good day people!

 

[Frogman]

Twist words much? That's not what I said at all. Buring the Koran gives our enemies ANOTHER REASON to harm our troops, AND will be used as a recruiting tool to create MORE ENEMIES. Is that what you want?

I'm so sorry... Maybe I just missed the "MORE" and "MORE ENEMIES" in your original post? Seeing how my Internet Mind Reading Machine is broken and all... I can only go by what you posted.

Mr. strawman, I absolutey AM against him doing this, but NOT because I don't think he shouldn't have the right to do so.

I see. So you're against someone exercising his freedom of speech? That's like saying I'm against you posting on the internet, not because you don't have the right to do so, but because someone might be offended by what you have to say.

Sounds like a bit of a double standard, don't you think?

You better tell that to all the BuSh/Cheney administration and their lemming supporters like Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, et al because "defend those who defend our freedom" is all they've been spouting for the last 8 years.

"Propaganda". Look the word up and learn what it means. It makes people feel better about our soldiers being engaged in an overseas war. It's not necessarily a bad thing, this "propaganda", but at the same time, it is basically just that. I know some of the conservatives on this forum may not agree with me but eh. I'm not here to lick anyone's nutsack and agree with everything they have to say.

I will say that indeed "we" have to be there, be it for our "freedom" or be it to stabilize and keep the region stabilized.

Then again, what do I know about what's going on overseas? It's not like I WORK there along side the US and Coalition Military forces. Oh wait... I do. silly me.

I would love to explain to you why we went into Iraq, but the explanation would be a little more than you could wrap your head around. Besides, I don't feel like typing 4 pages worth of text, since I'm reasonably certain you'd start to glaze over it about 1/2 a page down.

WHY the big change of heart NOW??

Huh? What change of heart?

NEWS FLASH: Those Muslim countries don't enjoy the same constitutional freedom of religion that we do in the USA. Wrap your mind around that concept.

They don't? You don't say. I thought Sharia law was like the US Constitution.

Of course they don't have the same constitutional freedom, I never said they did. But at the same time, for a peace loving religion, they sure don't want someone else "muscling" in and spreading other religions.

And again, enough w/ the strawman.

Are you confused?

Nobody has said we should limit the nutjob's right to free speech and burn the Koran. But we also have the right to call him an idiot and a traitor for putting our troops in more danger.

Seriously. It's spelled Qur'an. If you're going to refer to it, you might as well speel it properly.

An idiot, maybe. But a traitor? I'm curious why you'd refer to someone exercising his constitutional right to free speech as a "traitor".

Fortunately, Christians have a better sense of humor.

Well, they are supposed to forgive... Don't know for sure though, I'm not a member of any organized religion... or any religion, for that matter. Damned heathen I am...

Again w/ the strawman.

You are confused, aren't you...

Those who don't live in a free society (like US) cannot conceive why our government doesn't step in and "force" this church to not burn the Koran.

Fine. But for being peace loving, they sure get upset easily. I don't understand why they treat women like dirt there, but I respect that practice, even though I wholeheartedly don't agree with it.

I wonder if you could explain to me why all of these Muslim honor killings that have happened on US soil in the past couple of years have gone basically unpunished? After all, they were on US soil under our laws. Surely, it's not because they couldn't grasp the laws of the country they are living in?

Is it any wonder their panties get twisted so easily?

Peace loving. NOT... Remember that.

All the more reason we need to keep church and state seperate.

No argument from me there.

 

[Frogman]

I want to kill all of them and be done with it! Have a good day people!

Unfortunately, you're talking about Genocide. Pretty much what the Muslim extremists want to happen to the Infidels... which I'm sad to inform you, is you, I, and everyone else on this planet who's not Muslim.

 

[fossten]

I'm just wondering why Johnny wasn't outraged when somebody tried to burn down Sarah Palin's church, and yet he's blowing a tonsil in his blatantly obvious attempt to bait people so he can call them names over this Qur'an thing.

Could it be because he's a terrorist sympathizer/muslim who hates Christians?

Could it be because he's myopic and doesn't consider anything but political correctness?

Could it be because he's a milquetoast who is so afraid of the muslims that he favors appeasement?

Could it be all of the above?

Hmm.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

Thanks for proving my point. So, your question is loaded, as if somebody says yes, they're a bigot, and if they say no, they're a coward.

Another strawman...... did I call you a coward after you said "No you were NOT going to burn a Quran"? I must have missed your statement where you said "No". Oh wait, you DIDN'T say "NO". THAT is why you are a coward, because you are afraid to take a position and prefer to hide behind vagueness. Thanks for proving MY point.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

I see. So you're against someone exercising his freedom of speech? That's like saying I'm against you posting on the internet, not because you don't have the right to do so, but because someone might be offended by what you have to say.

Sounds like a bit of a double standard, don't you think?

An idiot, maybe. But a traitor? I'm curious why you'd refer to someone exercising his constitutional right to free speech as a "traitor".

Wrong. This goes way beyond someone being offended. This blantant display of fear of Muslims and rampant Islamophobic reaction hands victory to the terrorists. This is EXACTLY what their goal was when they attacked us! To stir-up FEAR and anti-Islamic re-ACTION so they can point to it and claim "SEE! The US hates all Muslims, therefore we must crush the infedels!!" Anyone aiding the enemy is a traitor.

Huh? What change of heart?

Back when Cindy Sheehan was protesting the war, the exact same argument I made above was being made about her by Faux Snooze and their right-wing contingent, including the majority of LvCPF righties. She was "aiding the enemy" and was branded a "traitor" (desipte the big difference that military leaders did NOT come out against her like they are now against this church w/ concerns about potential dangers to the troops). THATs the change of heart I'm talking about.

Of course they don't have the same constitutional freedom, I never said they did. But at the same time, for a peace loving religion, they sure don't want someone else "muscling" in and spreading other religions.
........

Fine. But for being peace loving, they sure get upset easily.

The vast majority of Muslims ARE peace loving and don't get their panties in a bunch over crap like this. It's the radicals taking aim at our troops we have to worry about.

I wonder if you could explain to me why all of these Muslim honor killings that have happened on US soil in the past couple of years have gone basically unpunished? After all, they were on US soil under our laws. Surely, it's not because they couldn't grasp the laws of the country they are living in?

Unpunished? Really. I'd like to see this list of unpunished "Muslim honor killings" in the US. Or is your use of the word "basically" your fun little way of discounting the punishment they DID receive under the rule of our laws?

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

I bet they sit around their computers and laugh at us now days! I say we burn a quran for every American that died in those towers, on those planes and in that WAR. The one that they initiated! Well I just wish everyone would think like this. I want to kill all of them and be done with it! Have a good day people!

Wow, talk about stooping to the enemy's level. Another LvC P&CEF "established member" recruit here, keeping it classy.

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[Lincoln Luebbe]

Can someone explain this "Mr. Strawman" that I and other's on here have been labeled?

What does it mean???

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

Can someone explain this "Mr. Strawman" that I and other's on here have been labeled?

What does it mean???

You attempted to make a strawman argument (something out of nothing) by insinuating that the media has been claiming this one pastor represents all of Christianity so you could then use that as an excuse to bash the media for doing so. The fact is, no one in the media has made such a claim. If you think somebody has, please post a link or citation to prove me wrong.

The sad part remains, this idiot's message is only as loud as his mouthpiece. For THAT, the media deserves criticism.

 

[Frogman]

Wrong. This goes way beyond someone being offended. This blantant display of fear of Muslims and rampant Islamophobic reaction hands victory to the terrorists.

So then, what do you propose? That we just lay (lie?) down and "take it" in the ass because we might offend another nation with an act that's guaranteed to us by the US constitution? I am referring to free speech, incidentally. We don't live in the Middle East. We live in America. We have OUR laws we follow, not theirs. Though, I think that if it were up to you, we'd be following their laws...?

Maybe if we were a nation of appeasement, but we're not. You screw with us on our own soil, our laws and our way of life, we react.

This is EXACTLY what their goal was when they attacked us! To stir-up FEAR and anti-Islamic re-ACTION so they can point to it and claim "SEE! The US hates all Muslims, therefore we must crush the infedels!!"

No, the reasons for their attack was because they hate the Western way of life. They hate democracy. They hate the separation of Church and State. They hate the individual freedoms western civilizations enjoy. They hate that you're not a Muslim.

They didn't attack us because they wanted to point and claim the US hates Muslims. If that were the case, we'd have gone to kill them much, much sooner than after 9/11... Christian Crusades notwithstanding, you weren't around back then. But make sure you apologize for the Christian white man killing the Muslim man during the Crusades, though.

Anyone aiding the enemy is a traitor.

I'm sorry? Aiding the enemy? HOW is he aiding the enemy? By burning a book and giving them another excuse to "attack" us? All the pastor did was save them from coming up with another excuse for attacking us.

Furthermore, we're ALL traitors. Ever drive a car? Good chance the gasoline in that car came from oil extracted in the Middle East. The same Middle East where the enemy is based out of. You don't suppose the Muslim Extremists don't get some money "donated" to them from oil sales proceeds? Government sponsored terrorism. Look into it.

You despicable Traitor!

Back when Cindy Sheehan was protesting the war, the exact same argument I made above was being made about her by Faux Snooze and their right-wing contingent, including the majority of LvCPF righties. She was "aiding the enemy" and was branded a "traitor"

I don't answer to Cindy Sheehan. Nor do I consult other people for my political views. Just because FOX News branded her a traitor, it does not make me change my views on what a Traitor is and what "aiding the enemy" means.

(desipte the big difference that military leaders did NOT come out against her like they are now against this church w/ concerns about potential dangers to the troops). THATs the change of heart I'm talking about.

The extremists will find any excuse to kill the Infidel. If you think that not burning a Qur'an is going to stop them from coming up with another reason, then you are deluding yourself.

And more-so, why should we appease them? Why should WE be the ones who have to appease them? They sure as hell don't show any inclination to like our way of life. After all, they're the ones who attacked us, not us them.

What would make you happy? Sharia law across the planet? Living under Muslim rule just so you don't offend them?

The vast majority of Muslims ARE peace loving and don't get their panties in a bunch over crap like this.

And the vast majority of Christians don't care if you burn a Bible. What's your point?

It's the radicals taking aim at our troops we have to worry about.

Again, you think that by stopping a preacher from burning the Qur'an, the extremists won't come up with another reason? How about the implied threats what's his face made when he spoke about what could happen if the Mosque wasn't built at ground zero?

The radicals will take aim at our troops no matter what... whether that preacher doesn't do his burning, whether the Mosque gets built, etc.

Unpunished? Really. I'd like to see this list of unpunished "Muslim honor killings" in the US. Or is your use of the word "basically" your fun little way of discounting the punishment they DID receive under the rule of our laws?

I'm sure you're a smart kid and can find this information out by asking Google. now, it could be said that I brought it up, therefore I should "prove" it. To that, I say blow me. I'm not going to waste my time searching for articles just to "prove" something to you. I know what I know, obviously you're too in the dark to know about stuff MSNBC and the rest of the liberal news outlets don't report on.

 

[Sozialkampf]

I'm burning a pile of them and posting on you tube as well! I'll post the link on this thread after Saturday.

 

[Frogman]

Just as an exercise in afterthought, I googled "Muslims Burning Bibles"

This is what your Peaceful Muslims do:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/285123/christians_in_gaza_fear_for_their_lives.html

This one surprised me a bit, but I agree with the school's stance:

http://justifythis.blogspot.com/2006/12/australia-muslim-students-urinate-spit.html

And one more:

http://www.speroforum.com/a/17283/Muslims-burn-Bible-in-Pakistan


You get the idea.... I don't see Christians up in arms and threatening genocide on the Muslim man.

 

[Lincoln Luebbe]

Actually my point was that this type of stuff is what gets media coverage (regardless of who did the seeking) not the people who actually follow what the Bible says. For instance (not that everybody who is a Christian has to do this or even should do this, but) when was the last time you heard a nationwide story about people who sell everything they have and move to poor areas or third world countries to help people in the name of Christ?

And yes I must say that one of the first things that jump to the minds of those that believe that Pastor represents Christianity (anybody ignorant enough to not know that he doesn't represent Christianity, just his title does) is that Christians are bigots and intolerant.

Tolerance is exactly that, tolerating. Somewhere along the line it became popular to say that if someone has anything other than a positve attitude towards something then they are "intolerant". Not supporting, accepting or even downright disagreeing does not mean your are intolerant.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

So then, what do you propose?

Simple, do what makes us a great country. Take the high road. Refuse to stoop to the level of our enemies. Do NOT allow FEAR to rule our lives or influence our actions and reactions. Follow our laws.

I don't see Christians up in arms and threatening genocide on the Muslim man.

You don't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97SilverLSCcobra
I want to kill all of them and be done with it! Have a good day people!

Unfortunately, you're talking about Genocide. Pretty much what the Muslim extremists want to happen to the Infidels... which I'm sad to inform you, is you, I, and everyone else on this planet who's not Muslim.

BTW, I was unable to find more than a handful of "Muslim Honor Killings" reported in the US. In all cases, the perp was either sentenced under our laws or is still on the run as a wanted man. There were alot of articles claiming an "explosion" of "muslim honor killings" in the US, but none of them seemed to have any facts to back up that claim. Additionally, the frequency of "Muslim Honor Killings" pales in comparison to domestic violence cases in the US where I presume the perps were non-Muslims. Seems this is another myth perpetuated by the right like the "explosion" of violence along the Mexico border when the FACT is that its on the decline.

 

[fossten]

Simple, do what makes us a great country. Take the high road. Refuse to stoop to the level of our enemies. Do NOT allow FEAR to rule our lives or influence our actions and reactions. Follow our laws.

Is there a law against burning the Qur'an?

The quote below is nothing but whining out of fear. What a contradiction. Who's the coward again?

Twist words much? That's not what I said at all. Buring the Koran gives our enemies ANOTHER REASON to harm our troops, AND will be used as a recruiting tool to create MORE ENEMIES. Is that what you want?

Our troops aren't already in danger from the "religion of peace?"

 

[TheDude]

I think the Pastor who's heading this and anyone who joins him is an idiot making an idiotic demonstration, though they shouldn't be stopped or talked out of this. The books are their property, they can burn them if they wish.

I also find the angle of "don't burn them, it will piss of Muslims" to be equally sad and pathetic. Islam isn't special; it doesn't deserve special treatment and this egg-shell walking approach towards it is pure nonsense.

The Dude's 4-cents.

edit: meant "isn't"