So I put some E85 in the Mark...

unity

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Today I put some E85 in the Mark. At $2.30 a gallon, it was a steal! I blended though with half regular. Economy so far is the same, performance was great.

Im not going to make a habit of it though until I get a new fuel pump put in. The SCT chip I have is tuned for the E85, E20, etc...
 
as long as you got a tune for it.

youll want larger injectors too.
 
That stuff will eat the seals in your fuel system. Atleast thats what they told us at school.
 
The injectors are from an 04 Aviator... happen to know what they are rated? I would not mind replacing fuel lines, etc so I can run E85 all the time. I want to get a new pump in before July anyway but I wonder if the Walbros can handle the extra ethanol without breaking down prematurely.
 
The injectors are from an 04 Aviator... happen to know what they are rated? I would not mind replacing fuel lines, etc so I can run E85 all the time. I want to get a new pump in before July anyway but I wonder if the Walbros can handle the extra ethanol without breaking down prematurely.

Yeah I agree if it were more readily available I would definately do a retrofit kit to make it so the mark could run it all the time.
 
Well according to Ford my Mark VIII can run E85 fine with no worries. Torrie from Fast Parts said the same thing. Ford said my 96 was fine but would not go into detail , but Torrie thinks that models years from 94 up should be ok.

So we shall see.
 
the 1 good thing about ethanal is it has a slower burn rate so that means higher octane.Great for blowers,turbos,nos,compression.The bad thing (i think) is the power output is not as good as gasoline
 
Response:

There is only one major additional part that is included on an FFV - the fuel sensor that detects the ethanol/gasoline ratio. A number of other parts on the FFV's fuel delivery system are modified so that they are ethanol compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system, anti-siphon device and dashboard gauges have been modified slightly. Alcohols are corrosive. Therefore, any part that comes in contact with the fuel has been upgraded to be tolerant to alcohol. Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon-lined fuel hoses.

Although your vehicle was not manufactured to run on E85, no problems should occur if you mistakenly fuel once with the alternative fuel. The largest difference between an E85 powered vehicle and a gasoline powered vehicle is that their computer modules are meant to read different amounts of oxygen within the fuel. E85 contains a higher amount of oxygen than gasoline and E85 compatible vehicles are made to read that higher amount. When a higher amount of oxygen is read by a gasoline powered vehicle, your "check engine light" may appear. A number of other parts on the FFV's fuel delivery system are modified to be ethanol-compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system and anti-siphon device have been modified slightly. Alcohol fuels can be more corrosive than gasoline. Therefore; fuel system parts have been upgraded to be ethanol-compatible.

Ultimately it is a drivers choice, but we do need to be firm in recommending that only FFVs use E85 and to state that we are not responsible for damages.


http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/questions.php


Essentially, when water comes into contact with the alcohol, it turns into an acid. Any and all exposed metal components in the fuel delivery system, would be eaten over time.
 
e85

Response:

There is only one major additional part that is included on an FFV - the fuel sensor that detects the ethanol/gasoline ratio. A number of other parts on the FFV's fuel delivery system are modified so that they are ethanol compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system, anti-siphon device and dashboard gauges have been modified slightly. Alcohols are corrosive. Therefore, any part that comes in contact with the fuel has been upgraded to be tolerant to alcohol. Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon-lined fuel hoses.

Although your vehicle was not manufactured to run on E85, no problems should occur if you mistakenly fuel once with the alternative fuel. The largest difference between an E85 powered vehicle and a gasoline powered vehicle is that their computer modules are meant to read different amounts of oxygen within the fuel. E85 contains a higher amount of oxygen than gasoline and E85 compatible vehicles are made to read that higher amount. When a higher amount of oxygen is read by a gasoline powered vehicle, your "check engine light" may appear. A number of other parts on the FFV's fuel delivery system are modified to be ethanol-compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system and anti-siphon device have been modified slightly. Alcohol fuels can be more corrosive than gasoline. Therefore; fuel system parts have been upgraded to be ethanol-compatible.

Ultimately it is a drivers choice, but we do need to be firm in recommending that only FFVs use E85 and to state that we are not responsible for damages.


http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/questions.php


Essentially, when water comes into contact with the alcohol, it turns into an acid. Any and all exposed metal components in the fuel delivery system, would be eaten over time.



I used to work at dodge selling e85 cars and trucks. From what the computer told me in training pure e85 will swell up fuel lines and just anhialate stuff over time. Gas has 90% gas and 10% e85 or something to that effect. Your best bet would be to just get some racing fuel and if you cant afford it just run premium and or regular. It pays to research before you have to rebuild and repair. Its like this you wouldnt mix chain saw oil or deisel with gas in your car.
 
the 1 good thing about ethanal is it has a slower burn rate so that means higher octane.Great for blowers,turbos,nos,compression.The bad thing (i think) is the power output is not as good as gasoline



ethanol has a lower energy content ber lb of fuel so you will need more of it to make the same power as on gas. it requires a richer tune. (mid 10:1 iirc)

on a stockish car you should be ok with stock 24lb injectors. i cant comment on how the rubber/aluminum components of the system will react though.


00hotrod....e85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. some states are E10 (10% ethanol) and some are still selling 100% ethanol free gas (my personal preference)
 
ethanol has a lower energy content ber lb of fuel so you will need more of it to make the same power as on gas. it requires a richer tune. (mid 10:1 iirc)

on a stockish car you should be ok with stock 24lb injectors. i cant comment on how the rubber/aluminum components of the system will react though.


00hotrod....e85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. some states are E10 (10% ethanol) and some are still selling 100% ethanol free gas (my personal preference)

In WI, its min 70% ethanol for E85 but given the cost I am sure it is or close to 85%.

Also, while the octanne is up to 105-110 range, fuel economy drops about 15% yet HP increases about 5% - according to Ford when it comes to their flex fuel vehicles.
 
I think the biggest "bonus" is the price! Hell if I could find $2.30 a gallon fuel out here in CT I would be all over a conversion!!!!
 
I think the biggest "bonus" is the price! Hell if I could find $2.30 a gallon fuel out here in CT I would be all over a conversion!!!!

We had a discussion about this on another forum I moderate at. The cost per gallon savings are outweighed by the decreased fuel economy when running E85 - basically it is just a wash. For the platform we were discussuing about, anyway (panther - town car, crown vic, etc.)
 
From what I have been reading, it looks like the "dont use or else" crowd is brain-washed by marketing at its best.

I've been doing A LOT of reading and digging into the info. All modern cars, 1988 on up, can handle ethanol blend just fine. Most cars in the early 90s converted to even better parts for better durability as ethanol blended fuels became much more widely used. This included upgrades to the rubber o-rings used, green in color they should be I think.

In short, any modern car can handle E85 just fine with no adverse short term effects.

But here is what should be know. Tainted E85, that is E85 with water contamination, can create a VERY weak acid (as mentioned above). This weak acid can corrode lines, tanks and injectors as well as the rubber connecting seals. THIS TAKES A LOT OR TAINTED E85 AND MANY TANKS OF IT! Normally you would have to refuel at the same station for years that had bad fuel. With todays standards and the addition of ANTI-CORROSIVE chemicals being added to the E fuels, this is pretty much a mute point.

In short, E85 will not damage your vehicle unless it is tainted. Also, if it is tainted, the gas and ethanol separates and the vehicle can run like crap. Similar to when water gets in regular gas. But since there is always the possibility of tainted gas or the fuel door being left open in the rain, manufacturers use stainless steel or poly tanks, teflon coated lines and injectors. As most here know, almost all Marks have black poly resin tanks - oddly, not all do though.

In addition, since E85 is less powerful at the same volume, injectors are usually upgraded and the car is "tuned" to take into account the excess oxygen to get the best economy and performance out of the fuel.

A flex fuel vehicle will get 10 to 15 percent less economy but should not hinder in performance since the injectors are dumping more fuel in (more fuel being dumped is really what causes the reduction in economy).

So to convert you need to do little. Make sure there is no water in the tank and get a proper tune - however...

I have been doing a lot or driving on pure E85 now and have been watching my economy like a hawk. I drive the same highway route often so I know what milage I get. Here is what I have found and what Torrie is looking for so he can make adjustments to my chip.

On 93 octane I get 28MPG at 65MPH and 24 at 75MPH.
On 85 ethanol I get 20MPG at 65MPH and did not try higher speeds.

In effect, I saved only 30 cents on the last fill. Performance is the same as before but IF there is an effect, it would be a reduction since I felt no increase.

What may need to be done, in the Marks case, is a specific program for E85 and the rest for regular. Mainly I would like to use E85 for long distance trips only. I could not even guess how a stock mark would handle E85.
 
for the record ive had a few cars come into the shop (im a ford drivability tech) running E85....they ALL had lean codes stored. if they are not flex fuel certified an obd2 system will throw a cel for lean condition and some will have hard starting/stumbling/stalling when cold.

03 F350 V10, 07 escape hybrid, 00 taurus OHV, 98 ranger 3.0 (their other 1 ran it just fine....why cant this 1?)

edit: add an 05 F150 4.6 to the list.

bank 1 and 2 LTFT at 29.72% short term fluctuating 1-4% mafV and map normal. fuel test.....E85
 
for the record ive had a few cars come into the shop (im a ford drivability tech) running E85....they ALL had lean codes stored. if they are not flex fuel certified an obd2 system will throw a cel for lean condition and some will have hard starting/stumbling/stalling when cold.

03 F350 V10, 07 escape hybrid, 00 taurus OHV, 98 ranger 3.0 (their other 1 ran it just fine....why cant this 1?)

edit: add an 05 F150 4.6 to the list.

bank 1 and 2 LTFT at 29.72% short term fluctuating 1-4% mafV and map normal. fuel test.....E85

Of course a code will be thrown since ethanol create a LOT of O2 when burned. So even if the car is running "fine", the O2 sensors will kick in since the car reads this "excess" O2. What the proper tune will do is recognize this and adjust under the assumption there is high ethanol. This is where the flex fuel sensor on the newest FFV comes in, being in the fuel tank its designed to better detect the O2 content BEFORE it gets to the engine. The Taurus should NOT have had a problem since a lot of then from 95 on up are actually Flex Fuel. The 3.0L 2000 Taurus us listed as FFV. Odd.
 

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