So how about Palin lately?

Joeys Lincoln

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Any comments on Palin writing notes on her hand? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...elieve_me_you_have_delusions_of_grandeur.html

which honestly isn't a big deal we all remember things in our own way.

But using the word retarded in satire is ok?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1114

Here's the video of him saying it http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/03/limbaugh-palin-apologize/

Oh and here's her video of saying it was ok http://vodpod.com/watch/3009822-pal...s-satirical-in-that-media-matters-for-america

or just watch from 4:30 even though it's the daily show it covers both topics quite well Hulu - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 - Watch the full episode now.@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.hulu.com/embed/Ub84ye3m2HBSlWCtbCzfaw@@AMEPARAM@@Ub84ye3m2HBSlWCtbCzfaw

It clearly wasn't satire please defend your girl with the lies you'll tell yourself.
 
Actually, that's audio of him saying it, not video. And it was 1:34, hardly context given a 3 hour show. He's also talked about it since then.

Asserting that it wasn't satire doesn't make it true. Do you plan on constructing an argument to explain why it wasn't satire, complete with a definition of the word, and all relevant contextual transcripts and/or video/audio?

Emanuel calls his fellow lefties 'f-ing retards' and gets reamed for it by Sarah Palin. Emanuel, due to the power of Palin's influence, apologizes to the Special Olympics president. Limbaugh makes fun of him, which is part of the reaming Emanuel deserves, and the media flips out. But instead of looking to the source, Limbaugh gets the criticism and magically, Emanuel isn't mentioned anymore. Reminds me of the 'Barack the Magic Negro' song. Media stupidity at its finest.

Keith Olbermann routinely calls him 'Comedian Rush Limbaugh.' If he's truly a comedian, then it's not a stretch to attribute satire to his statements. Sorry, lefties, you can't have it both ways.

For the record, Sarah did actually say that nobody should be using that word pejoratively.
 
Actually, that's audio of him saying it, not video. And it was 1:34, hardly context given a 3 hour show. He's also talked about it since then.

Asserting that it wasn't satire doesn't make it true. Do you plan on constructing an argument to explain why it wasn't satire, complete with a definition of the word, and all relevant contextual transcripts and/or video/audio?

Emanuel calls his fellow lefties 'f-ing retards' and gets reamed for it by Sarah Palin. Emanuel, due to the power of Palin's influence, apologizes to the Special Olympics president. Limbaugh makes fun of him, which is part of the reaming Emanuel deserves, and the media flips out. But instead of looking to the source, Limbaugh gets the criticism and magically, Emanuel isn't mentioned anymore. Reminds me of the 'Barack the Magic Negro' song. Media stupidity at its finest.

Keith Olbermann routinely calls him 'Comedian Rush Limbaugh.' If he's truly a comedian, then it's not a stretch to attribute satire to his statements. Sorry, lefties, you can't have it both ways.

For the record, Sarah did actually say that nobody should be using that word pejoratively.

Confusing stuff out of the Palin camp...

A Palin spokeswoman seemed to back away from earlier criticism of conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh. Yesterday, when asked for comment on Limbaugh's use of the "r" word in a recent broadcast, Palin spokeswoman told Greg Sargent of the Washington Post, "Governor Palin believes crude and demeaning name-calling at the expense of others is disrespectful." Today, Stapleton claims the statement was meant generally and she was not specifically referring to Limbaugh. Still, she declined to say that Palin believes Limbaugh's statements were acceptable.

I just want to know if Sarah is going to ask Limbaugh to step down... Seems only right...
 

"Think Progressive", like most left wing sources (or the MSM in general) is hardly a credible source when quoting Limbaugh (or most other conservatives) they have a habit of taking him out of contexts and misrepresenting him.

If you want to confirm what Limbaugh said in context you can get the transcripts for free on his website. Unless and until you take the time to do that, your argument has little credibility...

I just want to know if Sarah is going to ask Limbaugh to step down... Seems only right...

Fox, you have as much credibility concerning Limbaugh as media matters. For your argument to be given any serious consideration you need to show that this is not another instance of you misrepresenting him.
 
Fox, you have as much credibility concerning Limbaugh as media matters. For your argument to be given any serious consideration you need to show that this is not another instance of you misrepresenting him.
Limbaugh did say all those things using the word 'retard'. Some claim satire, some claim otherwise.. however, I thought that Palin certainly came down that the word shouldn't be used - at all, not in jest or comedic form either. That no matter how you use it, in her opinion, it is derogatory. (although she sort of backtracked on that over the weekend)

Oh, you can find that clip everywhere - including Hot Air... I think it is pretty authentic.

She called for Rahm to step down after one use of the word, Limbaugh used it many times...

You should see Colbert's take on this - calling Palin retarded and then saying 'get it'...
 
Limbaugh did say all those things using the word 'retard'. Some claim satire, some claim otherwise

...including Limbaugh himself:
RUSH: Oh, my God! And they want to say that Obama is showing guts in standing up to people? Okay, here's the last word on this -- the last thought on Rahm Emanuel and Harry Reid. I took some liberties. For those uncomfortable with the favorite words of leading Democrats, "Negro" and "retarded," I have a question: Are you comfortable with the words or with Harry Reid and Rahm Emanuel? I am uncomfortable with the men and the manner in which they used these words. Words don't generally offend me. I try not to give people the power to offend me. But Harry Reid and Rahm Emanuel, they do offend me and they scare me and they worry me. These men have cold hearts. They are statists. They have power over all of us. They are trying desperately to exercise that power. In fact, my friends, I am so uncomfortable with these men, I purposely chose to use a rhetorical tool -- satire, s-a-t-i-r-e -- to ridicule and humiliate them. That tool is an effective blunt object in breaking through walls put up by State-Controlled Media to protect Democrats.

Satire!

For those of you in Rio Linda, here's the definition: "The use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, et cetera." I used Harry Reid's words and Rahm Emanuel's words, not mine, to expose and punish their behavior. I used satire to wash their mouths out with soap and made an uncomfortable point. Because the State-Controlled Media would have run any Republican out of office (as in George Allen and "Macaca") if they had been caught saying what Reid and Emanuel said, just as they're trying to run me off the radio for repeating what they said. Now, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for Saturday Night Live or the late-night comedians to treat Democrats the way they treat Republicans. If some would choose different methods to expose Reid and Emanuel, fine. We share the same goals and both are useful in getting results. Do not doubt me. Aside from the State-Controlled Media, everybody involved got the point -- and so did they. Their outrage is totally fake and totally predictable.

I thought that Palin certainly came down that the word shouldn't be used - at all, not in jest or comedic form either.

Actually, that was her spokeswoman after being hounded by the media...
RUSH: Let me get something out of the way here before we move on to other issues. Last night, I'm minding my own business around five o'clock or 5:30, already working on today's show. I received a flash message from H.R., chief of staff. Sarah Palin's spokeswoman had just gotten off the phone with him, sort of in a panic. She had said that The Politico was going to run a story saying that Sarah Palin's spokeswoman had ripped into me for using the R-word and she had called to say, "I didn't mention Rush in particular. They kept asking me about Rush and I kept answering generically. But they kept asking about Rush and I just wanted you to know." So I soon saw The Politico story and the reaction to it, and, lo and behold, that's exactly how The Politico reported it. If it's a contest between Politico and Sarah Palin's spokeswoman, I will believe Sarah Palin's spokeswoman. No question about it. Because the Drive-Bys have been trying to create this ever since it happened -- and you talk about transparent? These guys are more transparent in their motives than Obama is, and he's the one that pledged it.

Oh, you can find that clip everywhere - including Hot Air... I think it is pretty authentic.
As I have pointed out, it is uncivil to misrepresent those you are engaging. The only person saying anything about the clips being inauthentic is you. I only pointed out that the various sources cited tend to take Limbaugh out of context, which is different then a clip being inauthentic.

Interesting that you missed what was said by Palin's spokeswoman in that link
I asked Palin spokesperson Meghan Stapleton for comment on Rush’s rant, and she emailed me this:

“Governor Palin believes crude and demeaning name calling at the expense of others is disrespectful.”
She hardly came down on not using the word at all. She said that it is disrespectful.

Liars, cheats and thugs like Emanuel don't deserve any respect. Rush wasn't extending him any. As Rush himself said, he, "chose to use a rhetorical tool -- satire, s-a-t-i-r-e -- to ridicule and humiliate them".

You seem to be jumping to conclusions. Again.

Deceit is in haste, but honesty can wait a fair leisure
 
Confusing stuff out of the Palin camp...

A Palin spokeswoman seemed to back away from earlier criticism of conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh. Yesterday, when asked for comment on Limbaugh's use of the "r" word in a recent broadcast, Palin spokeswoman told Greg Sargent of the Washington Post, "Governor Palin believes crude and demeaning name-calling at the expense of others is disrespectful." Today, Stapleton claims the statement was meant generally and she was not specifically referring to Limbaugh. Still, she declined to say that Palin believes Limbaugh's statements were acceptable.

I just want to know if Sarah is going to ask Limbaugh to step down... Seems only right...
Step down from what? He's not a public official...

Does thinkprogress think that Harry Reid should step down for saying that Obama didn't have a Negro dialect? Is Obama a hypocrite for saying he's not offended by Reid's comment but was offended by Trent Lott's? Maybe Reid should step down. Seems only right...
 
...including Limbaugh himself:
RUSH: Oh, my God! And they want to say that Obama is showing guts in standing up to people? <snip> These guys are more transparent in their motives than Obama is, and he's the one that pledged it.

This is what Rush is referring to and what was posted as an audio clip...

RUSH: Folks, there is so much apologizing going on from members of this administration, it's just amazing. First place, there's Rahm Emanuel out there who is in big trouble for calling liberals, for calling liberal activists F-ing retards. Sarah Palin demanded that he be fired. Instead, he is apologizing to liberal activists. He was getting mad at them about health care. The liberal activists kept blaming the White House for all this health care debacle not happening and not getting done. Emanuel's getting ticked off out there saying, (paraphrasing) "What are you blaming us for? We didn't do anything about it, you F-ing retards." I think the big news is the crack-up going on. But our politically correct society is acting like some giant insult's taken place by calling a bunch of people who are "retards," "retards." I mean these people, these liberal activists are kooks. They are Looney Tunes. I'm not going to apologize for it. I'm just quoting Emanuel. It's in the news. I think the big news is that he's out there calling Obama's number one supporters "F-ing retards."

As I said-it may or may not be satire (at this point I think Rush is using the 'satire' card as a 'get out of jail free card', he can say anything one day and then 'claim' satire immunity the next day...)

As I have pointed out, it is uncivil to misrepresent those you are engaging. The only person saying anything about the clips being inauthentic is you. I only pointed out that the various sources cited tend to take Limbaugh out of context, which is different then a clip being inauthentic.

So, shag - sorry, you did state out of context and misrepresented, and I wrongly used the word 'authentic'

So - did they take it out of context? Is it misrepresented? On that day did Rush claim satire? I don't believe he did - it was a couple of days later when things started to heat up that he used the satire immunity card.

Interesting that you missed what was said by Palin's spokeswoman in that link
I asked Palin spokesperson Meghan Stapleton for comment on Rush’s rant, and she emailed me this:

“Governor Palin believes crude and demeaning name calling at the expense of others is disrespectful.”
She hardly came down on not using the word at all. She said that it is disrespectful.

Didn't Rush use it as a comment for looney tune dems? That it is a word that should be used as a descriptor for bright people acting dumb?
But our politically correct society is acting like some giant insult's taken place by calling a bunch of people who are "retards," "retards."

Liars, cheats and thugs like Emanuel don't deserve any respect. Rush wasn't extending him any. As Rush himself said, he, "chose to use a rhetorical tool -- satire, s-a-t-i-r-e -- to ridicule and humiliate them".

So does a drug using, hypocritical thug deserve any respect? Rush conveniently has once again used the satire immunity card days after the event. Isn't this becoming a little like the boy who cried 'wolf'?
 
Obama’s palm:

Unprecedented
Unsustainable
8 years of failed
GOP obstruction
POCK EE STAHN
Let me be clear
I am god
 
Gibbs during today's press conference:

Gibbs hand.jpg

Gibbs hand.jpg
 
Limbaugh did say all those things using the word 'retard'. Some claim satire, some claim otherwise.. however, I thought that Palin certainly came down that the word shouldn't be used - at all, not in jest or comedic form either. That no matter how you use it, in her opinion, it is derogatory. (although she sort of backtracked on that over the weekend)

Oh, you can find that clip everywhere - including Hot Air... I think it is pretty authentic.

She called for Rahm to step down after one use of the word, Limbaugh used it many times...

You should see Colbert's take on this - calling Palin retarded and then saying 'get it'...

Funniest clip ever
 
Palin looks childish with her crib notes on her hand.
She obviously doesn't have her wits about her if she can't even keep a hand with notes on it out of sight of the cameras.
And then glancing down on it in such an obvious manner is totally clueless on her part as to how it looks.

It reminds me of her amusing turkey pardoning debacle and re-enforces her negative stereotype(s)
What was she thinking(if anything)
I'm waiting for Mad magazine to put her on the cover.

You guys keep lambasting Obama as lacklustre without his teleprompter yet he had no problem handling multiple 5 layered questions off the cuff for over an hour from republicans at the baltimore retreat.

I saw Mitt Romney today delivering a keynote speech at the plastics convention in Las Vegas and I would much sooner put my faith in him than in anything Palin might say or do.
 
Palin looks childish with her crib notes on her hand.
She obviously doesn't have her wits about her if she can't even keep a hand with notes on it out of sight of the cameras.
And then glancing down on it in such an obvious manner is totally clueless on her part as to how it looks.

Well, we can't all carry an army of teleprompters with us ;)

I saw Mitt Romney today at the plastics convention in Las Vegas and I would much sooner put my faith in him than in anything Palin might say or do.

Do you have a substantive argument or are you gonna stick with the sanctimonious "Palin-is-stupid" argument?
 
So...what Limbaugh said wasn't satire?

it is no excuse for presumptuous ignorance that it is directed by insolent passion
-Edmund Burke


Foss presented a photo and explained who it was I simply explained what it was from.

Well i screwed up let's say it was satire does that make it okay?
 
Palin looks childish with her crib notes on her hand.
She obviously doesn't have her wits about her if she can't even keep a hand with notes on it out of sight of the cameras.
And then glancing down on it in such an obvious manner is totally clueless on her part as to how it looks.
Desperate words considering the absolute dependence Obama has on a teleprompter to give him his EVERY WORD, vs. Palin keeping notes from which she derives her entire speech. Don't you have some real stuff to talk about?

Weak.
It reminds me of her amusing turkey pardoning debacle and re-enforces her negative stereotype(s)
What was she thinking(if anything)
I'm waiting for Mad magazine to put her on the cover.
Yes, I'm sure you have a lifetime subscription. Are you sure you can read that to understand it? :rolleyes: Katie Couric would have a field day with you, and that's saying something.
You guys keep lambasting Obama as lacklustre without his teleprompter yet he had no problem handling multiple 5 layered questions off the cuff for over an hour from republicans at the baltimore retreat.
The exception does not prove the rule:
What they’ll say is it costs too much money but you know what? It would cost about..it it iiit it would cost about the same as what we would spend iiiif ooover the course of ten years it would cost, it would cost us…it it..uhuh, alright, OK, were going to. The, it would cost us about the same as it would cost for abouuut. Hold on one second, I can’t hear myself.
–Barry Obama–sans teleprompter

I saw Mitt Romney today delivering a keynote speech at the plastics convention in Las Vegas and I would much sooner put my faith in him than in anything Palin might say or do.
That's because you are shallow, easily bewitched by pretty words instead of cognizant of the substantive principle.
 
Well i screwed up let's say it was satire does that make it okay?

It simply confirms the Burke quote.

Maybe you should check your facts and get your ducks in a row before coming in here and arrogantly delivering lines like this:
It clearly wasn't satire please defend your girl with the lies you'll tell yourself.
Otherwise, you simply embarrass yourself.
 
It simply confirms the Burke quote.

Maybe you should check your facts and get your ducks in a row before coming in here and arrogantly delivering lines like this:
It clearly wasn't satire please defend your girl with the lies you'll tell yourself.
Otherwise, you simply embarrass yourself.

Oh hey wait you clearly didn't answer the question you like side stepped it or something.
 
Oh hey wait you clearly didn't answer the question you like side stepped it or something.

Does satire make using the word "retard" ok?

It depends on the context.

If you present yourself and/or your political party and ideology as the height of tolerance, to use the term in a derisive comment like that shows duplicity on your part. If you would rake anyone from an opposing political party over the coals for using the term in that manner.

I see nothing wrong with someone using the word in a satirical manner to highlight that duplicitous/disingenuous nature in reference to the original comment...
 
Desperate words considering the absolute dependence Obama has on a teleprompter to give him his EVERY WORD, vs. Palin keeping notes from which she derives her entire speech. Don't you have some real stuff to talk about?

Weak.
Yes, I'm sure you have a lifetime subscription. Are you sure you can read that to understand it? :rolleyes: Katie Couric would have a field day with you, and that's saying something.
The exception does not prove the rule:


That's because you are shallow, easily bewitched by pretty words instead of cognizant of the substantive principle.


Having to resort to Ad hominum attacking and insulting me of late does not change the perception that Palin sets herself up to be mocked and ridiculed.
She just makes it too easy.
I thought she had smartened up when she joined fox but then a leopard can't change it's spots.

I had a subscription to Mad magazine when I was a teenager and it always had a sharp wisecracking wit about it when pointing out the absurdities of life.

Palin is full of platitudes and you've obviously been bewitched by her pretty words but that's what I'd expect from a thin skinned obsessive neurotic like you.
Obama likes his teleprompter but can obviously talk at length without it unlike Palin who can't even handle remembering 3 or 4 talking points.
 
Does satire make using the word "retard" ok?

It depends on the context.

If you present yourself and/or your political party and ideology as the height of tolerance, to use the term in a derisive comment like that shows duplicity on your part. If you would rake anyone from an opposing political party over the coals for using the term in that manner.

I see nothing wrong with someone using the word in a satirical manner to highlight that duplicitous/disingenuous nature in reference to the original comment...

So, shag, are we to assume everything that Rush says is satire, because two days hence he is going to label it as such, if he is called on it?
But our politically correct society is acting like some giant insult's taken place by calling a bunch of people who are "retards," "retards."
That doesn't sound like satire, that sounds like someone who is quite happy labeling a group of people with a 'derogatory' term. He is calling out society (in this case Sarah Palin) for taking offense to the word 'retard' even if it (in his mind) correctly describes a group of people. He is standing up for the use of the word when describing bright people acting foolishly.
 
Having to resort to Ad hominum attacking and insulting me of late does not change the perception that Palin sets herself up to be mocked and ridiculed.

Obama likes his teleprompter but can obviously talk at length without it unlike Palin who can't even handle remembering 3 or 4 talking points.
You seem to miss the fact that you are engaging in, and perpetuating ad hominem smears of Palin.

Calling her "dumb" is not a substantive argument. It should have been left on the playground.

As they say, you can't counter an insult. If you have to use that as a crutch for your argument, you have no argument. To use that technique is a way to avoid confronting the substance of what she says.

It is easy to cherry pick facts and misrepresent in order to smear someone, especially when the echo chamber of the MSM will perpetuate those smears. It is a typical technique of the left. Look at how often they misrepresent Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Palin, etc in an attempt to marginalize them. Michael Moore in particular is a master of this deception. Name one true conservative that has not been characterized as dumb and/or evil by the left-wing establishment.

You should be embarrassed for falling for such a childish argument.
 
So, shag, are we to assume everything that Rush says is satire, because two days hence he is going to label it as such, if he is called on it?

Are we gonna go through this again?

You don't listen to Limbaugh, you don't understand his regular "media tweaks" like this yet you are going to assume that was not being satirical despite the facts taken in context.

More jumping to conclusions.

Once again, deceit is in haste, but honesty can wait a fair leisure

For the edification of anyone wanting to approach this with any degree of honesty, here is the full transcript:
RUSH: Folks, there is so much apologizing going on from members of this administration, it's just amazing. First place, there's Rahm Emanuel out there who is in big trouble for calling liberals, for calling liberal activists F-ing retards. Sarah Palin demanded that he be fired. Instead, he is apologizing to liberal activists. He was getting mad at them about health care. The liberal activists kept blaming the White House for all this health care debacle not happening and not getting done. Emanuel's getting ticked off out there saying, (paraphrasing) "What are you blaming us for? We didn't do anything about it, you F-ing retards." I think the big news is the crack-up going on. But our politically correct society is acting like some giant insult's taken place by calling a bunch of people who are "retards," "retards." I mean these people, these liberal activists are kooks. They are Looney Tunes. I'm not going to apologize for it. I'm just quoting Emanuel. It's in the news. I think the big news is that he's out there calling Obama's number one supporters "F-ing retards."

So now there's going to be a meeting, there's going to be a "Retard" Summit at the White House, much like the Beer Summit between Obama and Gates and that cop in Cambridge. And then the Republican transportation secretary, Ray LaHood, he's out there apologizing because he told people not to drive their recalled Toyotas. And he said, (paraphrasing) "No, no, no, I didn't say don't drive 'em. I said take it in and get it fixed." Here's the story: "Don’t Drive Recalled Toyotas: US Transportation Secretary -- LaHood called automaker 'a little safety deaf' during probe of problem. He is advising owners of recalled Toyotas to stop driving them and get 'em fixed. His warning came Wednesday in testimony before a House Appropriations Committee," but he's since gone out to a different microphone and said, (paraphrasing) "No, no, no, no, I didn't mean to say don't drive 'em." Don't forget Toyota is a competitor to Obama Motors. You can't throw that out of the equation. Obama owns GM and Chrysler, and Toyota is a number one competitor. This is no different than the CEO of Ford going on TV or buying an ad and saying don't drive a General Motors car.

Then Arne Duncan is apologizing for what he said about Hurricane Katrina and the New Orleans public schools. He said Hurricane Katrina was the best thing that ever happened to New Orleans public schools. It was the best thing that ever happened to education in the New Orleans school system. He said, "the school system has improved so rapidly," because we had to rebuild it from scratch. "It's a wonderful thing to watch. The school system is strong again where it was relatively weak before." That can happen when half the population moves to Houston and you throw in even more cash. Duncan called on New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin to explain his remarks.

And then John Ensign, Senator from Nevada, Republican, "demanded an apology Tuesday from President Barack Obama for remarks he made disparaging Las Vegas. Ensign took to Twitter to ask for an apology for the remarks, the latest the president has made in several negative references to the city. 'Obama slams Las Vegas again. I am calling on the President to apologize for his remark. Las Vegas is suffering through one of the highest unemployment rates in the country and we cannot afford for the President to bring us down any further.'" Reid got a letter from the president but Ensign did not. That's the news from our Las Vegas affiliate. No surprise there. This guy's an ideologue, he's a partisan. Says he's not.

From the Wall Street Journal: "Emanuel Steps Up His Apology -- Rahm Emanuel privately apologized last week to the Special Olympics after the Journal reported that he used the word 'retarded' in a derogatory manner. But advocates for people with disabilities didn’t think that apology, coming in a phone call to Special Olympics head Tim Shriver, was enough. Now, Emanuel is taking his contrition one step farther -- hosting a delegation of advocates, including two people with mental disabilities, at the White House." They're going to have a "Retard" Summit just like they had the Beer Summit. But, folks, let's not forget, Obama insulted the Special Olympics on The Tonight Show. I haven't forgotten this. You know, here's the thing. If you want to look at how this is broken down, Emanuel compares Democrat activists to retarded people, then apologizes to retarded people. Not to the Democrats.

Normally if you call somebody a retard, you apologize to them for calling them a retard. But he has apologized to the retarded people for daring to lump them with Democrats. It's hilarious. So in an effort, ladies and gentlemen, to quell rising questions about the endless apologies necessary from Democrats, Obama is taking a short bus, little yellow bus full of "retards" -- "F-ing retards" -- to Las Vegas for the weekend. Senator Harry Reid expressed appreciation for the gesture and hoped that none of the "F-ing retards" spoke with a Negro dialect. Arne Duncan, the secretary of education, will also be with the delegation in Las Vegas, bringing some undereducated children from Katrina-ravaged New Orleans. The goal is to teach them not to gamble with their college fund. I mean that's what we have learned from what is happening with this administration. If this were Republicans making these statements, there wouldn't be any forgiveness. There would be calls for resignation. There would be calls for public humiliation. There would be calls for fines.
 

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